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11 minutes ago, DrakeMarshall said:

I'd be interested in hearing literally anyone else's thoughts on Bookwyrm

My thoughts on Bookwyrm are...oh wait. You meant people other than you that aren't me.

Wizard

Mayhaps it's time for me to do a serious analysis of this game, and come up with some reads that aren't based 99% in gut read!

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4 minutes ago, Ookla the Perpetual said:

My thoughts on Bookwyrm are...oh wait. You meant people other than you that aren't me.

Wizard

Mayhaps it's time for me to do a serious analysis of this game, and come up with some reads that aren't based 99% in gut read!

I mean, if you have thoughts on Bookwyrm to share, I'll take it :P

But your thoughts on other non-Bookwyrm players will likely be more interesting, yes, I would prefer if you did that :P

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19 minutes ago, DrakeMarshall said:

...I'm a little tempted to vote Alvron because he keeps on not voting

Given that so far, voting leads to village deaths, I think I’ve taken the right actions. No innocent blood on my hands. :P 

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I don't know what to think of Bookwyrm. They were one of the main people who protested against both the Xino and Silho trains C2 for having essentially no reasons, but were also a part of the early Fifth train that could have many of the same complaints. They did give a reason for voting Fifth, but more that he was a part of the Szeth voters + a gut read.

I feel like if I'd want to go after people for C2 voting patterns again, I'd rather do Fadran than Bookwyrm. But the reasons I was looking at Fadran were mostly the same reasons I was looking at Silho.

That and saying "Bookwyrm the Perpetual"... slightly breaks my brain Drake :P

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17 minutes ago, Ashbringer said:

I don't know what to think of Bookwyrm. They were one of the main people who protested against both the Xino and Silho trains C2 for having essentially no reasons, but were also a part of the early Fifth train that could have many of the same complaints.

Would you say he’s potentially e/e with Fifth, because of that distinction? I forget where he was on the Fifth train and if that makes for potential distancing as opposed to a straight bus, which could also be possible but on a train that was as shaky as that, eh.

19 minutes ago, Ashbringer said:

That and saying "Bookwyrm the Perpetual"... slightly breaks my brain Drake :P

No no I’ve spent the whole game appreciating that :P 

I get off break in ~3 minutes so this is all I have time for, I could reply to more rn but instead I just replied to the post closest to the bottom :P. More from me will come tomorrow. I’m less busy but… still busy :P.

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14 hours ago, DrakeMarshall said:

Independently of Hael or Shining or anything else, I am also just suspicious of Bookwyrm, but

I don't really have a reasoning and I don't really know Bookwyrm's playstyle that well

I'd be interested in hearing literally anyone else's thoughts on Bookwyrm

I was flagging Bookwyrm earlier for TMI defences of Shining despite voting/pushing (?) him C1 but I don’t know how much credence I put in those views. My reads are in a bit of a mess and unfortunately I disagree with Shining on most of his except the ones on me, Alv, and JNV :P That said, if Alvron gives me some indication that he is a villager with interest in finding the eliminators through voting, I am happy to switch to Bookwyrm. He was the main Shining defender who I thought was suspicious irrespective of Shining’s flip (this designation also applies to Wizard, though less so). 

Quote

So methinks we need to tighten up a bit in order to put more pressure on the elims.

@Ookla the [Redacted] Yeah voting would be helpful. Or just posting in general :P 

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I feel like y'all are recharging your energies after that show of democratic solidarity on Silho :eyes:

Spoiler

star-wars-democracy.gif

The cycle ends in 24 hours more! Get those votes and actions in!

Quote

Alv (2): Fifth, Mads
JNV (2): Wiz, Drake
Fifth (1): Devo

 

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About to take a look at Madagascar, who I'm currently Null+ to slightly village reading. I picked Madagascar because even though that's my read, I can't really explain why, and that's interesting to me. This is all I'm gonna have time for for awhile, unfortunately.

D1

Spoiler

-Most of Madagascar's D1 was an almost forced insistence on RPing, and she deflected my request for thoughts on the game without even attempting to give any. I think this could be read as NAI, but I feel like a villager would be more willing to say whatever's on their mind, whereas an elim in the early game might not have come up with anything yet. Though it was early, so maybe v!her just didn't have anything either :P.

-Hael poked her, which I feel like I can't use as e!indicative since I voted Hael xD

-When I added pressure to Madagascar, she still responded by not responding. This is more v!indicative than e!indicative imo, than not responding about reads, but like that first point, it was early so the pressure might not have been adequately felt.

-Right after I make Madagascar the leading train, Fifth tied it by voting xino. This interaction has been noted for potential future use. Both those trains sprung up right after I voted, actually.

-She then voted inactive Ventyl as a poke vote and sat there for the rest of the turn, which is... eh, when at this point there were votes with (albeit limited) reasons going around. Now that we know xino/Szeth was v/v this reads to me like an elim wanting to avoid attention on the main ML trains.

-I then unvoted because I didn't want to kill a returning player D1.

D2

Spoiler

-She made an analysis post condemning Wiz for voting Szeth, but ignored Fifth when he fit the same mold as Wiz as far as her analysis went. I'm paranoiding Fifth/Mad e/e seriously now. Oh, look, Fifth agreed with Mad's analysis but also called it opportunistic. Bet that never got revisited. Tell me that's not textbook distancing >>

-She argued her point on how contrived the Szeth train was, but like... she didn't even try to stop it on D1. There was no mention of those feelings early on, she just let the train go by voting Ventyl. Then when Szeth flipped green suddenly was all over how bad the train was. I don't like that.

-Once the Fifth train picked up, Hael and Mad voted xino back-to-back. My only hesitance here would be that it's storming obvious if all three are evil, but if Fifth's Desann I could maybe see it being possible? Idk. But it is pretty weird.

-Then, right after two people retract from Fifth, Madagascar retracted from xino. That really does make it look like she only voted him because Fifth was in danger. Technically, the retraction left the VC tied, but with manip that isn't really worrisome for them.

-Didn't vote again, which is the second time Mad stayed off two v/v trains at EoD.

D3

Spoiler

-Amidst everyone trying to figure out Shining, she votes inactive Alv. Which is well and good, but... she didn't even try to figure out Shining :P.

-Then voted Shining to solidify his exe, and pointed out that he'd be a black hole of discussion were he alive. Which is probably the most villagery thing Madagascar has said the entire game :P. Still though, no mention of what she actually read Shining as. Just voting based on solidification.

-Explains her D2 xino unvote as 'something in his voice sounded innocent'. That's pretty darn vague :P.

-Treated Alv suspicion as a legit suspicion as opposed to a poke on an inactive

-I think it's telling the first main train Mad voted on was the one that was apparently set up by elim vote manip.

In conclusion, this is why we reread :P Because my baseless v read of Madagascar really doesn't hold up upon further scrutiny. She's avoided discussing and voting the main villager trains, been kinda hypocritical in her condemnations, and had some peculiar linking with Fifth (which is a hard read to make when Fifth is unflipped, but just from this reread I wouldn't be surprised if they were e/e. I'll maybe take a look at Fifth specifically later).

Considering both current trains are half contribution crusades, I'm happy to vote Madagascar.

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Drake defending Mat and Fifth doesn't make that team seem less likely. Mat is putting a little suspicion on Fifth but since it's as e/e with Mad that's easy to do if Mat and Fifth are elims and Mad is village. That doesn't explain why Fadran is so eager to jump on that train. It adds some pressure but not that much since two other people also have two votes.

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Quote

She made an analysis post condemning Wiz for voting Szeth, but ignored Fifth when he fit the same mold as Wiz as far as her analysis went. I'm paranoiding Fifth/Mad e/e seriously now. Oh, look, Fifth agreed with Mad's analysis but also called it opportunistic. Bet that never got revisited. Tell me that's not textbook distancing >>

The reason for Wizard I voted rather than Fifth, explained I actually already have. Suspicious I was of Wizard breaking the tie. Suspected I did that Wizard and Xino evil together were. The past 2 days, dominated by confusion and debate over secret votes mucking up executions we have been, so no find Fifth voting for Szeth on the grounds of avoiding letting secret vote shenanigans muck things up suspicious as breaking the tie, as already others his fate had chosen. Obvious both wizard and szeth settlers were, so the death sticks my logic circuits did addle, and shown that theory has been to be not true, but my thoughts at the time those were.

As for the rest, apologize I never will for peddling death sticks.

Edited by Madagascar
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3 hours ago, Ookla the Tall said:

Considering both current trains are half contribution crusades, I'm happy to vote Madagascar.

3 hours ago, Ookla the [Redacted] said:

I’ll join Mat in that. Mad

Why do you guys keep doing this? :P It is not helping my paranoia that you guys have voted in a bloc before this cycle

59 minutes ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

Drake defending Mat and Fifth doesn't make that team seem less likely. Mat is putting a little suspicion on Fifth but since it's as e/e with Mad that's easy to do if Mat and Fifth are elims and Mad is village. That doesn't explain why Fadran is so eager to jump on that train. It adds some pressure but not that much since two other people also have two votes.

I should hope it doesn't make the team less likely :P the entire point is that I can't easily see a world where we aren't on the same team

...Mat's weird mad vote notwithstanding

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8 minutes ago, DrakeMarshall said:

Why do you guys keep doing this? :P It is not helping my paranoia that you guys have voted in a bloc before this cycle

...Mat's weird mad vote notwithstanding

Hey, I don’t control Fadran’s votes :P

Did you… read my case? It’s not like I’m voting based on nothing. I fail to see how it’s ‘weird’ :P. No weirder than the other trains at least, I feel like this read is based on a whole lot more than those

8 minutes ago, Ookla the [Redacted] said:

I like Mat. They’re my only Shardbuddy since the lot of you killed Xino.

Don’t vote alongside me based only on that please >>

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I read your case yes :P To elaborate:

The main weird thing about your vote was the circumstances I'd say, not the reasoning

I can vibe with the feeling of "village reading Madagascar slightly, but not actually sure why"

I'm not convinced that Madagascar not posting a reads list or otherwise doing a big meaty analysis post is evil indicative, since to my knowledge Mad has never done those things regardless of alignment, and Mad has ostensibly given reasons for individual votes they cast... Granted, I've only played 2 games with Madagascar before, so I don't have a big sample size to draw a conclusion from. Granted x2, that might still be more than most.

Nevertheless, I take your point. Madagascar seems to be going out of their way to avoid engaging in the major voting trains or discussion.

I do think there are village-aligned reasons for doing so. Diversifying votes is underrated tbh.

However it also means whatever village gut read I have on Madagascar is fairly meaningless. So... I guess I have a neutral read of Mad? They aren't my first choice, but they also aren't the worst person to start a wagon on.

 

Speaking of trains

Vote Tally
Alvron (2): Fifth Scholar, Madagascar
JNV (2): DrakeMarshall, Wizard the Myopic
Madagascar (2): Matrim the Tall, Fadran the [Redacted]
Fifth Scholar (1): Devotary of Spontaneity

I'd like to nominate a new one, not the least of which because JNV hasn't posted at all today, which makes a JNV train kind of boring.

I am once more asking for your financial support what are people's thoughts about Bookwyrm?

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17 minutes ago, DrakeMarshall said:

I'm not convinced that Madagascar not posting a reads list or otherwise doing a big meaty analysis post is evil indicative, since to my knowledge Mad has never done those things regardless of alignment, and Mad has ostensibly given reasons for individual votes they cast... Granted, I've only played 2 games with Madagascar before, so I don't have a big sample size to draw a conclusion from. Granted x2, that might still be more than most.

Nevertheless, I take your point. Madagascar seems to be going out of their way to avoid engaging in the major voting trains or discussion.

I do think there are village-aligned reasons for doing so. Diversifying votes is underrated tbh.

That’s fair, but it’s more the middle paragraph here than it is the lack of mega reads list, which I definitely understand that isn’t everyone’s jam :P I think one of the bigger things that made me squint was her saying D2 how she disagreed with the Szeth train, but on D1 there’s no evidence of that. She just let it go through, content to sit on Ventyl. To me that isn’t behavior evident of someone who disagrees with a main train, I’d expect some level of vocal disagreement or voting on the other train or something. So her saying that on D2 felt made-up, a detail pulled from the air to back up whatever point she was making then.

And I like diversifying votes as much as the next guy, but I think there’s a point where you need to take a stance :P 

17 minutes ago, DrakeMarshall said:

what are people's thoughts about Bookwyrm?

I guess I’m kind of counting out Bookwyrm for the moment because of what Devo has mentioned— suspicious things seem to be completely NAI for Bookwyrm. Standard things worthy of a vote have proven typical village behavior for him. And I haven’t really noticed anything abnormal.

I guess though that isn’t really an excuse, maybe I can give him another look. What about you, what are your thoughts on him?

Edited by Ookla the Tall
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28 minutes ago, Ookla the Tall said:

That’s fair, but it’s more the middle paragraph here than it is the lack of mega reads list, which I definitely understand that isn’t everyone’s jam :P I think one of the bigger things that made me squint was her saying D2 how she disagreed with the Szeth train, but on D1 there’s no evidence of that. She just let it go through, content to sit on Ventyl. To me that isn’t behavior evident of someone who disagrees with a main train, I’d expect some level of vocal disagreement or voting on the other train or something. So her saying that on D2 felt made-up, a detail pulled from the air to back up whatever point she was making then.

I mean, fair to be, that's... Kind of accurate? A wookie fart about szeth (or anyone else) on the first day I really couldn't give, my own neck for him certainly not enough to stick. Why should I? Know if Szeth was evil I did not, very intent on concocting excuses to murder someone everyone was, seemed to be to mind my own business so the best thing to do. My incredibly profitable business. Selling death sticks to wookies.

Once more information once the dust from the whole kerfuffle settled we had, able I was to look at the previous records and information and start to develop theories. Also yes, than make a mega reads list I would literally rather die. A lover, I am, a writer I am not. Why I dropped out of Jedi Academy, I did.

Anyway, I'm gonna go sell some more death sticks to wookies, see you later alligator.

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Okay, with how quiet everything is, the Elims clearly aren’t feeling too threatened.

So, if no one else will make reckless decisions, I will. Alvron gets a stay of execution. I am getting suspicious of Matrim

It is 12:30 AM, where I make only the best decisions

but I have had an itch to start this Exe for a while now

Why do I think Mat is evil? Let’s review his actions. D1 he pokes Hael. I am not claiming to be a poke vote scientist here—I understand that a variety of philosophies undergird the usage of this sacred institution. However, generally speaking, initial poke votes by eliminators are more likely to fall on other eliminators than on random players, because they are often cheap distancing points. (There at times when this goes awry, LG41 most notable among them.) This philosophy makes me mildly suspect Mat in light of Hael’s flip, especially given the transience of the poke dealt. He then retracts for Hael and votes Mad by the end of the cycle, starting that wagon, only to pull off it once it had another vote and hop onto Shining instead. Whether Mat knew about Wyrm’s vote or not here is rather immaterial; the point is that he charts a course from voting an Elim to…not doing that. (Note also the wording of the poke on Hael, which could be construed as a good joke if e!Mat.) Note also the Fadran interactions which are just weird and seem artificial; cannot tell if it is a pocket, a pairing, or just me being bad at reading tone. My brain also does not know whether to take the persistent refusal to join a Xino or Szeth train as villager-y or TMI. 

Then there’s his first post of C2, which bleeds eliminator to me: 

Quote

That was mean, I read by colors first and foremost and there's nothing more eye-drawing than that red >>

For some reason my brain thought this was an LG, so I wasn't expecting a kill. TUN feels like very much low info but I probably should also check if he said anything worthwhile that might have drawn that.

A vote moved from Shining to Szeth-- I'm going to assume it was Book's vote since I voted like two seconds before rollover :P. Though I suppose it could have been mine, and the manip was put in while I was voting Madagascar... that'd reflect an inactive manipper at EoD, which is interesting. I think that manip could be both Jedi or Sith but I'd need to double check the rules. I maybe will look into the implications of it more, later.

Shining, ha! Now my vote does something! :D.

Tbh I didn't even know Bookwyrm was on Shining last turn.

This whole post just sounds like an attempt to sell the “confused villager” angle. Note the consistent bafflement / surprise he feels the need to express about pretty much every aspect of what’s happened. I should, I should, I was deceived, etc. More Fadran interaction, Shining vote placed immediately even as he quasi-defends Shining against Fadran’s accusation of an amateur move (this probably points to v!Mat if it’s not NAI, tbh), then his response post to me, which was the original thing that made me retract my paranoia of him. Looking back it’s still fine, but I don’t get the village vibes I did from it on my first read-through. The next few posts do give me stronger v!Mat, but it’s mostly on tone which is always the thing I’m susceptible to, so I’m intentionally rating it lower. :P

Then my bandwagon happened. I was initially v!reading my defenders, but looking back at what Mat said, and considering that there were no Elims in danger, he was free to defend me from the weird train at will. (Note, again, Fadran doing the same in close accompaniment. And then joins the wagon later. Have I mentioned I have no clue what to make of Fadran? >>) His Shining vote is fairly persistent except for a brief switch to Xino, but I respect e!Mat enough that I’m not reading the oscillation as necessarily Village. 

So C2!Mat was best Mat, probably, even though the interactions are still weird (and his defences of me and Drake and Fadran also felt odd). And there was that one terrible initial post. C3!Mat also starts off rocky, casting aspersions on Shining as a result of the vote manip but failing to vote him directly until much later. Does a very high-effort multiquote the tone of which reads Village but the substance of which is a little less even—there are good Village and Elim bits in there, and this is getting too long anyway >> Point is, this is probably the post other than mine which makes The Case Against Shining. Reads list is generally good, though it studiously avoids saying much of anything about Hael. 

I could say more but I’ll just leave this here. My brain will power me off if I’m not asleep soon and then I’ll lose this post :P as I reread I think I actually became less convinced of e!Mat. But. I’m tired of oscillating on everyone and I have a handful of suspicious things on him, so y’all talk about it and give me something to say come morning :P 

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