Mid-Range Game 61: Shadows and Dust

[Shining Silhouette]

13 hours ago, DrakeMarshall said:

I get not having enough time to make the posts you want, but I also don't think it necessarily does Shining any favors that at least so far, they have spent their limited amount of time on multiple self-defense posts and zero posts focused on analysis of other players.

Very fair. That's ClosedMinded!Me right there

Off the top of my head I have a moderate v read of Mat and Wiz atm. Both seem actively trying to solve. I like how Wiz brought up posts from previous games—that feels like the V!Wiz that has stepped up in previous games. I feel like Mat is genuinely considering the possibility of V!Me and I appreciate it.  

I'm trying my best not to instantly e read those who are voting me, but my V!Fadran read has started to feel a little weird. @Ookla the [Redacted], you haven't really expressed why you're voting me or what makes me sus to you. 

Drake, though you e read me, it feels like you're trying to do what's best for the village and I appreciate that.

Bookwyrm is a little weird in how they defended their defense of me, could be tmi, but I liked their post where they were like "Wait why Siliho what's going on there". Probably null but slightttt vil

I feel strongly that there is at least one Elim on the Silho train and probably because of that, there are some elims distancing on JNV Edit: Xino.

Quote

Xino (5): JNV, Hael, Wiz, Silho
Silho (4): Mat, Devo, Xino, Drake, Fifth
Fifth (1): Bookwyrm

Out of the voters on me, I lean heaviest on E!Devo for what seems like a convenient/opportunistic vote and Fifth by POE. Just because a train started quickly on Fifth doesn't disqualify E!Fifth

Quote

Fifth (4): Ash, Bookwyrm, Xino, Silho

Actually, E!Fifth is totally possible. Just because it started with quickly and little reason doesn't disqualify its legitimacy. The same thing happened in LG90 with E!Archivist and a victim picked by a shot in the dark shouldn't be ruled out just because of the method picking it. Yes I know this applies to me too.

I'll have to look back at where the votes were when my train started to see how likely I think that is.

Quote

Xino (5): JNV, Hael, Wiz, Silho
Silho (4): Mat, Devo, Xino, Drake, Fifth
Fifth (1): Bookwyrm

I've said my thoughts on Bookwyrm, but as for Xino, probably JNV/Hael are most suspicious here.

In summary my POE without backreading is (unordered) <Fifth, Fadran, Devo, JNV, Hael>

Quote

I'm not 100% committed to a Shining train, since it is my habit to not be 100% committed to any train if the cycle hasn't actually ended yet. If there's somebody more suspicious, I'll vote for them, but I think I might have a slightly stronger elim!read on Shining than you do.

Is anyone ever really 100% committed to a train even at the end of a cycle? Villagers, I mean :P.

 

Gtg for a bit but in a couple hours I should have time to reread and make a real analysis post.

 

Edited December 1, 2022 by Ookla the Debonair

[Madagascar]

A gift, democracy is. Use it, we should not be afraid to, because come on, not like your votes can against you be held in a future court of public opinion a case for being a murderer made, and in your violent public execution by an angry mob resulting, right? Don't look where I'm kicking

*awkwardly kicks rug over Xino and Szeth's bloody mutilated corpses*

[Kasimir]

A reminder you have around twenty-three and a half hours left in the cycle!

Get those votes and actions in!

[Ashbringer]

The Dark was stronger.

Kalabel wasn't a huge fan of metaphors. Similies, sure, comparing things was fun. But they were also as obvious as a smoking boilerplate. Metaphors were more like a locked servo. Maybe it was simple, maybe it wasn't. And that uncertainty made even the simple answers complicated.

She hadn't been in space very much. A few times, like when some navigator drone broke down in orbit and Galtaran told her to go and fix it. She still wasn't sure if that was meant to be a favor or was more him being lazy, but she'd appreciated the trip up. Mostly it was internal, but the artificial gravity system was interesting. As was the view. So many stars. So much more Darkness around them. Sure, the lights shown through the darkness, burning bright, but the darkness still threatened to overwhelm it at any moment, threatening to collapse them into fragments or holes of darkness or just swallow them.

See, this is why she didn't like metaphors. She took them too far. Jedi were light, and Sith were dark, but how far did that go?

And where was she?

Kalabel mostly looked at the world as it came to her: dusty, dangerous, but brimming with a place she had purpose. Even if her purpose was just helping Galtaran, even if she wasn't somehow the Chosen One Of Junction Boxes, she was learning, and eventually she'd be one of the better technicians on Korriban. But right now, with Sith and Jedi and - as she tuned in a bit more to the shouts from a seperate direction - something called a terentatek, was that enough?

Kalabel nodded to Sajhe, took one last look at the door, then called Bar9 over and found a corner of the cantina. She needed to think. Or rather, spend a bit of time thinking about something else.

Bar9 settled in and opened a small compartment, revealing a small red glow.

Much easier to think with something in your hands.

[Channelknight Fadran]

4 hours ago, Ookla the Debonair said:

I'm trying my best not to instantly e read those who are voting me, but my V!Fadran read has started to feel a little weird. @Ookla the [Redacted], you haven't really expressed why you're voting me or what makes me sus to you. 

Basically because it was between you and Xino last time around and Xino turned out to be village. Again, I probably won't stick with this vote for the entire time.

[Fifth Scholar]

That long post last night did not happen, sorry. Would say that it's my fault but at this point I think I can start blaming my professors >>

Multiquote time + bonus Hamartano RP:

On 11/30/2022 at 1:17 PM, ookla the POKE VOTE said:

noooooo who healed me we literally have no pinch hitters but i dont have the mental capacity to play this game ._.

You can always throw a vote on Shining.  More seriously, this response reads...oddly - it's almost a form of thanking the doctor, which generally reads elim to me, but unless the Jedi were foolish enough to recruit a Sith apprentice last turn which just so happened to get protection powers, there's no way you aren't village, so any analysis you can do would be helpful since you're the closest thing we have to a cleared individual.  

On 11/30/2022 at 1:48 PM, Ookla the Debonair said:

Bro I was so ready to go say some funny things in the dead doc I was so prepared

@Ookla the Forgotten may you rest in peace

hmm yeah I am not really buying the enforced casualness here

On 11/30/2022 at 1:50 PM, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

Jedi likely wouldn't do it unless they were extremely sure while a Sith would benefit from doing it regardless of Silho's alignment. One Jedi/apprentice sent in a protect, but that's not enough to be sure that another one didn't do the vote manip. That also means we can't make any solid conclusions about Turtle's role/alignment, though villager is still likely.

Tania's eyes nictitated. She'd been approaching the prey species surrounding the rock when suddenly there'd been a current, not swirling and diffuse but directed right at one with a ragged covering, strong enough to be its source. She swung a claw experimentally and instead of pulling out a glowing stick to defend itself or dodging with the speed most prey were capable of, it simply came apart in a splatter of blood. The current stopped abruptly so perhaps it had been the source but was simply insufficient to help her. 

Tania! didn't have time to consider for shortly after the remaining prey fled the cave, she began to hear high-pitched wailing sounds, almost completely surrounding her. This wasn't something she could fight with claws or teeth or tusks, and approaching that awful keening was unbearable. She fled the cave far faster than she'd entered it and kept running back to the mountains until the sound faded away.

+1 to Devo's post here. Sith have incentive to manipulate in either case. I will note that if Silho is village, this means that the Sith did not have incentive to vote, which, assuming that he is dying today, is something we should consider in light of his flip. If he's village, I would put far more suspicion on the non-voting people yesterday. 

On 11/30/2022 at 1:54 PM, Ookla the Debonair said:

OOH I didn't say thank you

Thank you @Ookla the Person that Saved Me

Also yeah I'll find someone to actually vote this cycle

This, meanwhile, is actual thanking the doctor.  So yeah. More points against Silho. 

On 11/30/2022 at 3:13 PM, Ookla the Myopic said:

That is also my question. 

Manip could be Jedi or Sith, or apprentice. 

I'll focus on the three sith manip possibilities

Number one:

There is a sith on the Xino train and they wanted to save Shining. 

Points to one of <JNV, Hael, Wiz, Shining> as evil. I wouldn't discount shining as he could have saved himself and the prasing whoever saved him as fake. But I'm not certain

Number two:

There is a sith on the Silho train and wanted to throw shade on Shining. 

Points to one of <Mat, Devo, Drake, Fifth> as evil. 

Number three: 

There is a sith that voted someone else or didn't vote and wanted to create confusion by killing Xino.

Points to one of <Bookwyrm, Madagascar, Fadran, Turtle, Alv>

Great, just great. My paranoia has sused everyone once again. >>

And I just realized that there would be three other sith, likely only one that can manip if the other puts in the kill.

What I'm getting from this is that Shining is either a sith and was saved because he is evil, or he's a villager set up as a ML/LHF. 

Don't know if I want to bite yet, though at the same time, killing Shining would provide clarity.

 

Not certain anymore on V!Shining. I'll abstain from voting for now, though I'll likely vote at some point.

This kind of post is indicative of Wizard's general style this game, which is one reason that I would be voting for him were I not invested in figuring out Silho's alignment (and suspecting him more) right now. Nothing in this post, despite its length, takes a firm stand on anything--it offers general terms for a blanket "condemnation" of the entire populace and leaves it at that. Even his last two sentences manage to hedge  

On 11/30/2022 at 3:24 PM, Ookla the Perpetual said:

I'm so confused.

I'll admit, Silhouette getting saved is somewhat suspicious.

Where did all the Xino votes come from last cycle? And what was their justification?

People keep making trains, and I must not be paying attention, because they seem to come out of storming nowhere.

I'm having a hard time reading people based on actual evidence this game....

Similar vibes from this Bookwyrm posting, though this at least asks some decent questions about last cycle, and proffers some sentiments with which I can agree. Actually. Never mind, I revise my initial impression. This is the most V!Bookwyrm vibes I have gotten from one of his posts all game.  Nonetheless, I think his interactions with Silho are odd, especially his well-timed defences of him last cycle, which were the kind of half-committal ones you tend to see from teammates who are afraid of the steel cords and group-seating bus  

On 11/30/2022 at 3:45 PM, Ashbringer said:

Any exe this cycle should be based on a suspicion. I’m not voting until I find one. Because as far as I can tell all three trains last cycle were for reasons of pressure or for voting Fifth for pressure.

Actually, no. Can everyone go back to their C2 votes and explain why they did them? Because there were so many without one.

Wonderful. I am suspicious of Shining.  I will agree the logic behind last cycle's trains was suboptimal or nonexistent. My vote was initially concerned with "not dying" and getting people to ask what in Braize Fadran and the others were doing, and then moved into a general preference of Silho over Xino, as Xino had seemed to at least be trying to address things while Silho seemed to take little interest in game-solving with his votes and was throwing them around rather haphazardly. In fact, this is/was my chief complaint against him this cycle as well; he has directed all his efforts into saving himself, and has repeatedly insisted the wagons against him are due to "elim influence," but he fails to take significant interest in who these eliminators might be, which is the chief thing contributing to my current elim read. It seems that the eliminators in the world Silho is trying to paint chiefly exist with their intentions to kill or frame him, and the identity is a minor bother that he'll sort out later. This is much closer to the mindset of an eliminator concerned with survival than a villager concerned with survival and with making sure suspicious people are identified and killed, etc. This can also be seen in his response to my request to him for dying words last cycle, where he failed to name any suspicions or leads specifically.

23 hours ago, Ookla the Myopic said:

I had a village read of Shining over a null read of Xino and my theory that Shining is less quippy when he's evil. I very well may be proven wrong next cycle.

I desperately need another re-read of Shining, but I probably won't have the time. I'll probably end up making the time though, even though I shouldn't.

Drake you make a convincing argument, but I'm going to need to re-read and convince myself to cross the line.

I have colour-coded this Wizard post to helpfully demonstrate how every statement, major or minor, AI or NAI, is qualified somehow.  This is less an issue for the second line, but for the first and third it's the kind of hedging I've noted on him all game and is only fuelling my elim read of his behaviour.

17 hours ago, Madagascar said:

Hmmm. What this party needs, do you know? More wild accusations, is what I think.

Alvron, death stick do you want? Made with Real Death(tm)*, they are. What are you up to? Maybe trying to KILL US ALL?

Moff would like to announce that available the Rancor is available for pony rides, thanks to Moff's good friend and dealer Jubba the Hutt. Aware all partygoers should be that the Rancor has many death sticks eaten.

Not going to vote for @Alvron anytime soon, but I agree that I would love to hear from him.

6 hours ago, Ookla the Debonair said:

Very fair. That's ClosedMinded!Me right there

Off the top of my head I have a moderate v read of Mat and Wiz atm. Both seem actively trying to solve. I like how Wiz brought up posts from previous games—that feels like the V!Wiz that has stepped up in previous games. I feel like Mat is genuinely considering the possibility of V!Me and I appreciate it.  

I'm trying my best not to instantly e read those who are voting me, but my V!Fadran read has started to feel a little weird. @Ookla the [Redacted], you haven't really expressed why you're voting me or what makes me sus to you. 

Drake, though you e read me, it feels like you're trying to do what's best for the village and I appreciate that.

Bookwyrm is a little weird in how they defended their defense of me, could be tmi, but I liked their post where they were like "Wait why Siliho what's going on there". Probably null but slightttt vil

I feel strongly that there is at least one Elim on the Silho train and probably because of that, there are some elims distancing on JNV.

Out of the voters on me, I lean heaviest on E!Devo for what seems like a convenient/opportunistic vote and Fifth by POE. Just because a train started quickly on Fifth doesn't disqualify E!Fifth

Actually, E!Fifth is totally possible. Just because it started with quickly and little reason doesn't disqualify its legitimacy. The same thing happened in LG90 with E!Archivist and a victim picked by a shot in the dark shouldn't be ruled out just because of the method picking it. Yes I know this applies to me too.

I'll have to look back at where the votes were when my train started to see how likely I think that is.

I've said my thoughts on Bookwyrm, but as for Xino, probably JNV/Hael are most suspicious here.

In summary my POE without backreading is (unordered) <Fifth, Fadran, Devo, JNV, Hael>

Is anyone ever really 100% committed to a train even at the end of a cycle? Villagers, I mean :P.

 

Gtg for a bit but in a couple hours I should have time to reread and make a real analysis post.

Probably the best Silho post he's made (because hey! it's analysis where he is sorting through people) but I still disagree with a good chunk of this, most obviously the v!Wizard and e!Fifth part. (and, shockingly, the e!Devo part, which I swear, if I am going to have to choke on my shoe after the game, I will: I currently v!read Devo...God save us all >>) 

I agree that my wagon last cycle has little bearing on my alignment, but you have failed to identify anything actively suspicious about me that would justify a vote. Also, as nice as your colour-coordinated schematic is, we sadly cannot assume you to be village with quite the same enthusiasm you are blessing your own analysis with, so removing that presupposition makes me sceptical. Why do you think JNV and Hael are the most suspicious on the Xino train? And, if the two main trains at the end of last cycle were both village, why do you think the Sith would prefer one over the other, see a need to divide their votes, or even vote to begin with?

This leads into another point, which is that the best v!Silho argument I can see atm is that we had only 2/3 voter engagement last round in terms of people who actually ended the cycle having voted, which is a bit lower than I'd expect if a Sith was up for the shrek. That said, the existence of vote manip, and the seeming reticence of the Jedi to employ theirs, might change the calculus enough where this is no longer a real concern. Next post I should look at the abstainers, though. 

---

[Hamartano RP forthcoming]

[DrakeMarshall]

Vote Tally
Shining Silhouette (3): DrakeMarshall, Fifth Scholar, Fadran the [Redacted]
Alvron (1): Madagascar

 

@JNV  @Ashbringer  @Matrim's Dice  @Devotary of Spontaneity  @Haelbarde  @The Wandering Wizard  @The Bookwyrm  @Fifth Scholar  @Shining Silhouette @ookla the POKE VOTE  @Alvron

Are we really not voting this cycle?

That is much the same thing as letting the eliminator team decide the outcome with vote manipulation, which most likely they literally did last cycle.

Some of the people I pinged have weighed in on the vote discussion in one way or another, which is good, but I still think you should vote

 

Shining, I appreciate your analysis and regardless of your alignment I think I like you as a player, but right now I'm keeping my vote on you.

[Fifth Scholar]

1 minute ago, DrakeMarshall said:

Vote Tally
Shining Silhouette (3): DrakeMarshall, Fifth Scholar, Fadran the [Redacted]
Alvron (1): Madagascar

 

@JNV  @Ashbringer  @Matrim's Dice  @Devotary of Spontaneity  @Haelbarde  @The Wandering Wizard  @The Bookwyrm  @Fifth Scholar  @Shining Silhouette @ookla the POKE VOTE  @Alvron

Are we really not voting this cycle?

That is much the same thing as letting the eliminator team decide the outcome with vote manipulation, which most likely they literally did last cycle.

Some of the people I pinged have weighed in on the vote discussion in one way or another, which is good, but I still think you should vote

 

Shining, I appreciate your analysis and regardless of your alignment I think I like you as a player, but right now I'm keeping my vote on you.

You counted me in your vote tally and then tagged me for not voting. Make up your mind  

[DrakeMarshall]

2 minutes ago, Fifth Scholar said:

You counted me in your vote tally and then tagged me for not voting. Make up your mind  

 

On 11/30/2022 at 1:29 PM, Fifth Scholar said:

Shining

welp

this is what I get for copy+pasting Kas' player list and then deleting the names of dead / people who voted from it, instead of typing the names out myself from nothing

I would un-notify you but I don't think that's a thing

[Channelknight Fadran]

Hm.

The analysis makes me wanna say v!fifth and e!silho. I think I’ll stick with my vote, actually. If Silho turns out to be village, then at least we’ll have a few candidates for actual elims (for once…)

[Shining Silhouette]

9 minutes ago, Ookla the [Redacted] said:

If Silho turns out to be village, then at least we’ll have a few candidates for actual elims (for once…)

What do you mean by this?

[Channelknight Fadran]

17 minutes ago, Ookla the Debonair said:

What do you mean by this?

 

33 minutes ago, Fifth Scholar said:

+1 to Devo's post here. Sith have incentive to manipulate in either case. I will note that if Silho is village, this means that the Sith did not have incentive to vote, which, assuming that he is dying today, is something we should consider in light of his flip. If he's village, I would put far more suspicion on the non-voting people yesterday. 

This, meanwhile, is actual thanking the doctor.  So yeah. More points against Silho. 

This kind of post is indicative of Wizard's general style this game, which is one reason that I would be voting for him were I not invested in figuring out Silho's alignment (and suspecting him more) right now. Nothing in this post, despite its length, takes a firm stand on anything--it offers general terms for a blanket "condemnation" of the entire populace and leaves it at that. Even his last two sentences manage to hedge  

Similar vibes from this Bookwyrm posting, though this at least asks some decent questions about last cycle, and proffers some sentiments with which I can agree. Actually. Never mind, I revise my initial impression. This is the most V!Bookwyrm vibes I have gotten from one of his posts all game.  Nonetheless, I think his interactions with Silho are odd, especially his well-timed defences of him last cycle, which were the kind of half-committal ones you tend to see from teammates who are afraid of the steel cords and group-seating bus  

Wonderful. I am suspicious of Shining.  I will agree the logic behind last cycle's trains was suboptimal or nonexistent. My vote was initially concerned with "not dying" and getting people to ask what in Braize Fadran and the others were doing, and then moved into a general preference of Silho over Xino, as Xino had seemed to at least be trying to address things while Silho seemed to take little interest in game-solving with his votes and was throwing them around rather haphazardly. In fact, this is/was my chief complaint against him this cycle as well; he has directed all his efforts into saving himself, and has repeatedly insisted the wagons against him are due to "elim influence," but he fails to take significant interest in who these eliminators might be, which is the chief thing contributing to my current elim read. It seems that the eliminators in the world Silho is trying to paint chiefly exist with their intentions to kill or frame him, and the identity is a minor bother that he'll sort out later. This is much closer to the mindset of an eliminator concerned with survival than a villager concerned with survival and with making sure suspicious people are identified and killed, etc. This can also be seen in his response to my request to him for dying words last cycle, where he failed to name any suspicions or leads specifically.

This ^ ^ ^ mostly

[Madagascar]

Tomorrow, suggest I do that everybody vote. Like, right away. Even if for someone not sure you are of or based on pure silly Force intuition. But surely by now, suspicions we all have. Just grab people and dangling over the Sarlacc pit we should. Help it will for us to get the space-ball rolling and always change our minds we can later. Democracy dying to thunderous applause better is than democracy dying with “meh” fart noises.

Unless something interesting happens, vote later for Silhouette I may just to make sure that die he does (so no funny business makes him somehow survive and force us to endure this entire same conversation again tomorrow.) (Sequels are overrated.) More interesting it is for me to have more than one person up for Sarlacc-into. But in the meantime keep whacking Alvron’s knees with my tiny lightsaber I will, because by the Force somebody has to.

Edited December 1, 2022 by Madagascar

[The Wandering Wizard]

19 hours ago, Ookla the Tall said:

Your analysis is valid, but it's done in a way that suggests it's option one OR two OR three, and I think it just as easily could be all of them. Like, in the case of elim manip, only one did it, but there are multiple elims and theoretically they weren't all voting on the same train :P. If they were trying to save Shining, that could be interpreted multiple ways and it's not really useful to guess which one is more likely so I think we should try to read Shining on tone/posts more than sheer IKYK analysis, if you know what I mean.

I have looked back upon what I have written and I see how myopic it was. I'd blame my tiredness and rushing because I wanted to analyze but I really didn't have the time.

3 hours ago, Ookla the Debonair said:

Off the top of my head I have a moderate v read of Mat and Wiz atm. Both seem actively trying to solve. I like how Wiz brought up posts from previous games—that feels like the V!Wiz that has stepped up in previous games. I feel like Mat is genuinely considering the possibility of V!Me and I appreciate it.  

 

I've been trying more, but had less mental capacity and time to do it good.

6 hours ago, Ookla the Debonair said:

Is anyone ever really 100% committed to a train even at the end of a cycle? Villagers, I mean :P.

 

Never, my brain's too paranoid so I have to talk myself into keeping my vote.

4 minutes ago, Fifth Scholar said:

This kind of post is indicative of Wizard's general style this game, which is one reason that I would be voting for him were I not invested in figuring out Silho's alignment (and suspecting him more) right now. Nothing in this post, despite its length, takes a firm stand on anything--it offers general terms for a blanket "condemnation" of the entire populace and leaves it at that. Even his last two sentences manage to hedge  

Yes this is a problem of mine when I put down my thoughts, the paranoia I have inside begins to seep in and I write down my dithering. When really I should keep it in my head instead.

9 minutes ago, DrakeMarshall said:

Are we really not voting this cycle?

 

Quite possibly as I'm not certain I believe in E!Shining, though I've been combing through Silhouette's previous games to see how much he actually is quippy when not evil. Not a comprehensive analysis, just bullet notes on general behavior

LG88: 

V!Shining + Low posting + More rules analysis* + First Game = No Quippiness 

QF62:

E!Shining + Medium posting + Rules analysis* + Coaching = No Quippiness

LG89:

V!Shining + Medium posting + Less rule analysis* = Little Quippy

MR60:

V!Shining + More posting + Random votes = Little Quippy

LG90:

V!Shining + High Activity + Random votes = Quippy Chaos Silho

I think I've determined for myself that Silho is quippy because of a style change not because of allignment indicative, the problem being that there is only one E!Silho game for me to look at and it was near the begining, before the style change.

I also marked Rules analysis with * because it's less common then it was back then and that was his playstyle more then. So I'm gonna stick with my gut on Silho. 

I'll go Fadran, I've only gotten a sense of nothing from him and his posts this cycle haven't been vibing with me. Yes, this is a problem that sometimes people's playstyles just rub people the wrong way sometimes, resulting in a constant E!Lean of the player. But my gut is my gut and I've got to trust it.

[Channelknight Fadran]

If it means anything to you, Wizard, I don’t think you’re elim

[Devotary of Spontaneity]

56 minutes ago, Fifth Scholar said:

unless the Jedi were foolish enough to recruit a Sith apprentice last turn which just so happened to get protection powers, there's no way you aren't village, so any analysis you can do would be helpful since you're the closest thing we have to a cleared individual. 

Jedi apprentice has no way of knowing who's village either but that's still a 2/3 chance of guaranteed village which is how statistics work.

I still don't know where I stand on Silho. There was some carelessness in past cycles and thanking the vote manip followed by saying it was obviously the Sith strikes me the wrong way, but he seems too willing to die for a Reborn and maybe the Sith would have fought harder since the vote was close enough to be loseable. More likely a Cultist if evil. If he's village, I'm leaning towards Fifth as the most likely Sith pushing the thread in that direction.

[The Bookwyrm]

I know I should vote, but I'm having the hardest time actually reading people.

I have gut suspicious about too many people, and so I'm doubting myself. 

.......I think I'll just go with Fadran for now. And, as always, constantly and perpetually, this vote is subject to my "subject to change" asterisk.

I should basically trademark it at this point.

[Channelknight Fadran]

I think I’m tied with Silho; right?

Vote Tally
Shining Silhouette (3): DrakeMarshall, Fifth Scholar, Fadran the [Redacted]
Alvron (1): Madagascar
Fadran (2): Bookwyrm, Wizard (i thought Silho was voting me but I couldn’t find it)

Edited December 2, 2022 by Ookla the [Redacted]

[Ashbringer]

My essay was delayed and so I actually do have some time today... let's see what we got.

This spoiler is just assembly of the vote things for now, analysis / thoughts below:

Spoiler

Matrim

Spoiler

Quote

Shining, ha! Now my vote does something! :D.

Tbh I didn't even know Bookwyrm was on Shining last turn.

Quote

Last EoD it was a snap decision based on a stab of gut and a light activity profiling, but as that vote did effectively nothing I thought I’d cast it again :P.

So half a joke and half legitimate pressure. Or more like a quarter of a joke and three-quarters pressure.

Quote

Anyone wanna wagon Shining :eyes:

Quote

Shining Silhouette, xinoehp512

I don’t know how good the xino train is but I know the Fifth one isn’t very. And you’ve officially pushed my brain into that being enough to switch. (Sorry Drake, we can chase Shining tomorrow if we want :eyes:)

Quote

xino, Shining. Although the part of me that notices that Shining refuses not to be chill about this doesn’t like it :P.

 

 

23 hours ago, Ookla the Tall said:

If I had a nickel... ok. Initially was three-eighths pressure, three-eighths a reaction to his uninterested state, two-eighths joke continuation [approximate measurements] but it sort of turned into a Fifth exe protest vote for a minute there and then I ran out of time to consider xino. Shining didn't do himself any favors along the way which solidified it from its stance as two-eighths joke to 'good enough for me'.

Fadran

Spoiler

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Shining Silhouette

for the time being I'm going to assume the vote manip was an amateur move and go from there.

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I don’t plan on keeping my vote that way, to clarify. I’m just starting my reads from the bottom and working my way up.

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Silhouette

Someone manip’d a vote off of them for seemingly no reason. I’m pulling out now because…

 

well…

Before:

Xino (1): Ash
Szeth (4): Xino, Drake, Fadran, Wiz, Fifth, Mat
Madagascar (2): Hael, Szeth
Silho (1): Bookwyrm
Turtle (1): Silhouette 

Ventyl (1): Madagascar

 

After:

Szeth (6): Xino, Drake, Fadran, Wiz, Fifth, Mat
Madagascar (2): Szeth, Hael
Silho (1): Bookwyrm
Xino (1): Ash
Turtle (1): Silho
Ventyl (1): Madagascar

 

[TAGS MAT] there was no vote manip; Kasimir just missed a couple last-minute switcheroos

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okay, my bad. Mat, there was for sure a vote manip. Ignore my previous observation.

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Bookwyrm

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*sigh*
Bookwyrm

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Fifth Scholar, between you and Xino I’m going with you.

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Fifth

I guess it really could be xino. Considering that possibility, my continuous defense of him probably comes across as “elim buddies.”

Given what Fifth just said, I’m gonna pull out and let the votes go without me this time around.

 

[No Response]

Ashbringer

Spoiler

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JNV Ashbringer Matrim Drake Hael Wizard Bookwyrm Fifth Shining Turtle Alvron

TUN interacted with: Alv (jokingly), Fadran (jokingly), Drake, Mat, Szeth (saying is cuckoo maloo... which... idk if it's jokingly or not but Szeth is V anyway) and that was it. I'm not really up to date on people's kill methods, with of these only Mat and to some extent JNV are not vastly older or newer than me. But TUN fits low info like a glove, which makes it harder to find people to discount. Would like some thoughts on this.

 

Of these... I'll toss a vote on Fifth to start. Mostly for leaving me on Xino all alone, but also hopefully to use a bit of what I learned in ye olde LG74 

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Slightly paranoid on you for taking the same ideas on Xino vs Szeth as me, then going Szeth while I stayed Xino - Xino did post, but their post seemed a lot like C1 thoughts summary rather than new things, which seemed NAI to me. But also of the Fifth-Hael-Drake-Alvron, I played with E!you before (or did so more recently) and thus have a bit more to base stuff off of. So thanks for a big post I'll look at it in more detail later 

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Fifth. I had reasons for that vote, but they weren't reasons of suspicion, and of the several votes that followed I'm pretty sure none had reasons, which... I do not like. Plus Fifth got pressured enough that assuming we both survive I can at least look at something. I'm not going to replace my vote just yet, as I don't really have the time to think a target over, but I could be convinced to go on Xino or Shining. I should be on at End of Day, if not for long. Wednesdays are busy too.

 

... I never responded to myself, did I? I think I laid out my reasons pretty well, but again, they were more pressure to get posts to judge suspicion than actual suspicion.

Drake

Spoiler

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Also there's only like 3 votes so I guess maybe I should probably do my part 

Wizard (AKA [TAGS WIZ]) I choose you for consideration!

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Comprehensible, have a nice day.

Wizard.

You pass the vibe check.

Can I ask why you wish to avoid ties?

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Sure, let's give it a whirl!

Shining Silhouette yous stand accused of... I don't remember

Probably something though

Pretend I have something super clever to say here

Oh, wait, I know

You stand accused of the fact that there was a train on you earlier and once it happened a bunch of votes appear out of nowhere on Fifth and that's circumstantially a little bit weird

Also your D1 voting choice makes it hard to read you

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And Shining Silhouette doesn't seem like it's an exe either.

Uhhhh.

Hm.

What about

Idk what about Turtle

what do you all have to say about that

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I don't know how I feel about you [Xino] soliciting this vote specifically from me, but you know what, sure.

Shining Silhouette.

 

On 11/30/2022 at 3:15 PM, DrakeMarshall said:

I voted for Wizard because their Szeth vote felt like a list of all of the reasons that had previous come up, without a lot of evidence of effort spent assessing those reasons.

I retracted from Wizard because they gave a villagery sounding defense.

I voted for Silhouette because Matrim suggested it, I wasn't the biggest fan of the Fifth/Xino dichotomy and Silhouette had a vote on Fifth, and also because we had two trains spring up not long after Silhouette had attracted some votes and I wanted to gauge the pushback to putting Silhouette on the spot again.

I retracted from Silhouette since nobody else was voting for them.

I voted for Turtle mostly just to see if people would show willingness to vote Turtle, tbh. Apparently the answer was "no." This is a little weird in retrospect since Turtle was also an attack target.

I voted for Silhouette when it became an option again, this time at Xino's solicitation.

Madagascar

Spoiler

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For the Ookla [Szeth, I believe?], many people voted to eliminate him, but of all those I will look that those who spent the least time arguing against him. Suspect I do that a Sith would not want to draw excessive attention by vehemently pushing for the death of one they knew was innocent, but would want to give enough reason to deflect suspicion if questioned. Dogpile upon the martyr, they might, in order to avoid the possible fickleness of the mob against them to turn. So if choose I had to do, choose to feed Wizard to a rancor to see if the rancor poops out any red lightsabers. 

Spoiler

After reviewing those voting for Fifth, joining them I find unnecessary. I will retract wizard and toss a vote for Xino to face trial by rancor I will. The reason bein', Wizard bein' evil would make sense only really if Xino were evil (for if two innocents were up for slaughter, why would a Cultist risk taking the heat by breaking a tie like that?). And interesting it is that everyone jump onto Fifth right after the votes for Wizard there are. Trust Fifth, I do not. Trust the people voting for his death, even less so. So maybe both are evil due to *HICCUP* uhhhhh blatant paranoia induced by heavy amounts of Mandalorian ale and death sticks, my theory is. And more interesting it is to have two people at risk for death by rancor than one, it is.

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I retract Xino because not sure anymore am I, and innocent blood on my hands I do not want.

 

[No Response]

Fifth

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I will toss my vote on Fadran for the time being; I think he’s getting away with suspicious behaviour on the grounds that eliminators want to avoid looking obviously suspicious, which I have a long record of opposing as an argument.  I still want to look more into Mat’s interactions with him, but I should go and actually do RP/work now, so sadly that will get tabled and probably eventually forgotten unless [TAGS MAT] is kind enough to remind me to begin an inquisition on him later  

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OORP: I will likely vote for Xino eventually (especially since the alternative is me ) but would rather not get locked into an either-or before it's strictly necessary. Not really sure that Fadran merits my vote anymore, though. I would switch to Silho for his vote on me, which is arguably the worst of the four, but also don't trust that wagon because Mat >> tonight, I will have reread D1 and given proper attention to things, and I will cast a better vote then.

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No. I’ll go back onto Fadran. Frankly, that vote makes zero sense to me. There is no reason I am even a target for this Exe besides a combination of paranoia from my past games, a vague desire to go after the Szeth voters (of which I was not one until the last second, and basically tried to cement a decision made by others so that the Elims couldn’t mess with our heads by condemning someone else with vote manip!), and gut. I cannot respond to any of these, and they make no material engagement with my posts, my thought processes over the last two cycles, and my petitions that we actually take a look at some of what led to these situations being created. Additionally, none of the votes on me explain either why the Jedi would manip onto Szeth, or why, if I am a Sith, I both slammed a vote onto Szeth in very public, last-minute fashion AND made an obvious manipulation to do the same thing, when one would have sufficed. Am I that desperate to protect Mad? Xino? Are these even reasonable teams for me to be on? There are entailments to me being evil, which nobody is explaining, and it’s quite frustrating seeing four or five votes go on me for this when they’re not being considered. 

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Assortment of thoughts on recent developments: I do not know what I think about Xino specifically requesting a Shining Exe, rather than adding his vote back to me. It seems that nobody is interested in Fadran, which is probably fair, and my vote on him has largely served its purpose anyway. Right now there have been a lot of retractions and a general unwillingness to commit to someone, which is normally a bad sign indicating the Elims are not under much pressure, or that the village is listless, which feels equally bad. I did my promised reread last night when I took a break from responding to the thread, and got frustratingly little out of it other than a reminder that Wizard is avoiding scrutiny that was on him previously, and that there are quite a few people getting away with minimal posting. Ultimately, Shining’s votes have seemed actively worse to me than Xino’s, so I will vote there out of the two current options.

 

1 hour ago, Fifth Scholar said:

Wonderful. I am suspicious of Shining.  I will agree the logic behind last cycle's trains was suboptimal or nonexistent. My vote was initially concerned with "not dying" and getting people to ask what in Braize Fadran and the others were doing, and then moved into a general preference of Silho over Xino, as Xino had seemed to at least be trying to address things while Silho seemed to take little interest in game-solving with his votes and was throwing them around rather haphazardly. In fact, this is/was my chief complaint against him this cycle as well; he has directed all his efforts into saving himself, and has repeatedly insisted the wagons against him are due to "elim influence," but he fails to take significant interest in who these eliminators might be, which is the chief thing contributing to my current elim read. It seems that the eliminators in the world Silho is trying to paint chiefly exist with their intentions to kill or frame him, and the identity is a minor bother that he'll sort out later. This is much closer to the mindset of an eliminator concerned with survival than a villager concerned with survival and with making sure suspicious people are identified and killed, etc. This can also be seen in his response to my request to him for dying words last cycle, where he failed to name any suspicions or leads specifically.

Bookwyrm

Spoiler

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...I'm going to vote Fifth.

I'm going with my assumption that there's at least one elim on the Szeth train, and of the options, I think Fifth is the best. I don't have much solid reasoning right now (it's primarily a gut read), but because I'm assuming I'm going to get grilled for this, I will find some more concrete evidence.

And if the concrete evidence says that I should vote for someone else, then I'll change my vote!

 

[No Response]

Shining Silhouette

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Very fair if I do say so myself

Fifth

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Fifth

Thank you for the response I wanted sir

Wait was I tricked all along??

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Well, doesn't look spectacular for me rn so I suppose I need to vote in self pres. If E!Xino then I'm definitely getting lynched today

Xino

 

[No Response]

Hael

Spoiler

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Statement: I'm more inclined to vote for Xino based on last turns interactions. Madagascar held up admirably to the constant two vote pressure while Xino did not, manufacturing drama and chaos to avoid death. I'd be wary of Redacted as an accomplice as part of that, but would vote Xino first.

 

14 hours ago, Haelbarde said:

Explanation: I was suspicious of the unnecessary chaos that Xino caused that resulted in Szeth being executed, while not being a fan of the Fifth bandwagon which seemed to have little foundation. Didn't have much reason to shift if afterward when players joined in. The other main option being Silhouette/Debonair which didn't seem to have all that great foundation either. 

JNV

Spoiler

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Ive read the thread like three times now and the only thing thats sticking out to me is the run of early bad Fifth votes I feel like I can get Ashbringers Bookkwyrms feels almost typical for them kinda which is a little concerning but oh well and like Im a little ambivalent between xinoehp and Silhouette but Im about to sleep and I dont have time or energy to actually evaluate things so xinoehp over Silhouette mostly because Id be very upset if Fifth died for reasons ammounting to nothing

 

[No Response]

Wizard

Spoiler

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Which I will admit is much earlier and he hasn't been evil since. But generally V!Shining is snarky and E!Shining isn't. So I'm out of time and need to take a test, so I'm gonna trust my read of V!Shining and his style.

Xino

 

On 11/30/2022 at 2:37 PM, Ookla the Myopic said:

I had a village read of Shining over a null read of Xino and my theory that Shining is less quippy when he's evil. I very well may be proven wrong next cycle.

I desperately need another re-read of Shining, but I probably won't have the time. I'll probably end up making the time though, even though I shouldn't.

Devotary

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I think it's unhelpful to soft Jedi as a means of getting people to remove votes on yourself unless death is assured otherwise. If that works all the Sith will do it too and it's not worth a Jedi claiming to ensure one Sith dies, so we'd have to push an exe through claims of losing every time. I'll put my vote on Shining Silhouette. What reasons do you have for being village that aren't threats?

 

[No Response]

 

(Space)

... okay that took like half an hour no thoughts head empty 

 

Both Shining and Fadran changed their votes around a lot without much in the way of justifications, and as far as I can see haven't given reasons for their vote hopping. Drake also did a lot of vote changes, but did give a list of reasons this cycle. Wizard and Devotary both voted late when it was down to Shining vs Xino and chose opposite sides. Fifth gave all the reasonings which... if nothing else I appreciate  and can hopefully do something with later, but for now I've got some other suspicion avenues anyway. Bookwyrm had a stable vote on Fifth even after that train collapsed, which is interesting considering their post when they voted seeming willing to drop off. Combined with them voting Fifth for gut and then later repeatedly pointing out the lack of reason in many Shining/Xino votes.

@Ookla the [Redacted], @Ookla the Debonair, do you have any reasonings for your initial C2 votes? @Ookla the Perpetual, did your gut read on Fifth change much over C2 or to now?

[Shining Silhouette]

9 minutes ago, Ookla the [Redacted] said:

(i thought Silho was voting me but I couldn’t find it)

Analysis in another tab and coming soon but no I didn't vote you

3 minutes ago, Ashbringer said:

 

@Ookla the [Redacted], @Ookla the Debonair, do you have any reasonings for your initial C2 votes?

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Very perceptive of you! I noticed the baselessness of the wagon and decided to join it so that when I left it would fall into pieces.

Also we'd seen how Fifth responded to three votes, but what about how he responded to FOUR votes

—Me, C2

I voted mainly because people kept voting Fifth without much reasoning, so I decided to vote with no reasoning at all to make a point--Fifth also hadn't responded to the votes so I wanted to see if I could make him sweat a bit

Yes that's confusing to people but sometimes you gotta have some fun  

[Channelknight Fadran]

My jumpiness comes overwhelmingly out of gut feeling, bandwagon jumping, and just an overall lack of any real justification for any of my decisions yet.

[The Bookwyrm]

5 minutes ago, Ashbringer said:

@Ookla the Perpetual, did your gut read on Fifth change much over C2 or to now?

It's slightly lessened. Fifth gave a good defense in the later parts of C2, and while it wasn't enough to remove all of my suspicion, it was enough to remove some of it. I just didn't change my vote that cycle because it quickly became irrelevant, what with everyone else jumping on the Silhouette train, and I didn't know who else to vote for.

Something about Fifth's posts just seem suspicious to me, but considering I've never played a game with them, I can't put too much stock into it. It could just be me misjudging their playing style. Maybe I need to re-think this all a little bit more...

I would still be okay with voting Fifth, but I'll wait until it makes more sense to do so.

[Mat]

Flash reads with no backreading cause I don't have time these days to do more than that:

• JNV - Null. All I remember is the evil quokkas which I jokingly read as evil :eyes:
   
• Ash - I don't really null read Ash, which is new  But I've liked most of his posts, the pop-ins of being that voice of reason the thread needs, and don't see why an elim bother with that I guess. Slight village for now.
   
• Devo - More quippy than I've seen but that's not AI imo, just enjoyable  Didn't Devo vote Shining late last turn, solidifying his exe as far as the non-manipped VC was concerned? That's very interesting, but I don't know in what way because Shining remains unflipped. Null for now I suppose but I've taken note.
   
• Drake - I'd say village based off of vibes and solving and all that jazz, but if Shining flips v I'll take a closer look. Tentative villager.
   
• Hael - I don't remember anything Hael has posted which should probably worry me more than it does xD And I don't have time to check so you get a Null. Will check back later.
   
• Wiz - I can sympathize with Fifth's argument, and I also don't really love how Wiz's counterarguments are essentially 'that's just something I do' which I guess could just be true but my brain wants something more concrete than that :P. Also, e!Shining also is heavily linked here. Lean elim
• Bookwyrm - I don't know if I agree with Fifth about Bookwyrm's villagery vibes, but I do agree with Devo on that the normally sus things about people don't exactly apply 100% here. Which makes Bookwyrm really hard to read >> Pretty dependant on Shining's flip (at least, a Shining e flip) so I suppose I can tentatively elim read this one.
   
• Fifth - Similar to Drake, I like the vibes, but a Shining v flip raises some eyebrows. Drake vibes more village to me but I've played with e!Fifth considerably more than v!Fifth so there's definitely past paranoia fueling that :P. My brain wants to c/p what I put for Drake but I'm putting Null+ instead. That's probably more accurate. Also need to reread here. That all being said, if someone who baselessly is sussing Fifth isn't elim I will... eat something :P. Regardless of Fifth's alignment.
   
• Shining - I... don't know.  As I've said xD I almost think there's a certain amount of infoflipping to be done here, just cause so many people have talked about him today. And he wasn't a runaway any of the times he was up, which I think is more indicative of e than v at least. I like the solving and all that recently but it's nothing really clearing to me. The Fifth vote still wasn't good. The manip doesn't look good. He should already be flipped, really. I'll say lean elim but it's as much a lean as it is a desire to have Shining's flip to solve with further :P.
   
• Madagascar - I... think sliiiiight village but Madagascar is someone I want to reread more than almost anyone else, and someone I feel could be reasonably cased either way. Which is to imply that VC analysis will be my friend here :P.
   
• Fadran - I won't die on the hill that this guy's an elim scapegoat, but I still kinda think he is. I still get unaligned vibes despite the questionable votes and random elimmy posts and I guess if you vote him I won't be mad but I won't help either. Would flip Shining first. Hesitant Village.
   
• Turtle - Was attacked/survived. Really don't want to theorize what it would take for this to be WGG >> Village until it's absolutely necessary to assume otherwise.
   
• Alv - @Alvron come play, we could use some wisdom. Null.

I'll vote Shining. I think this exe will tell us a lot either way, and certainly could flip red.

[Madagascar]

Unvote Alvron, who refuses to respond he does, even when let the Sarlacc's tentacles tickle his toesies. Amazingly stoic, that one is. Threatening him, useless seems to be (albeit fun). Vote to Force Wedgie Shining Silhouette, I will.

Look, dude, know if you are a Cultist you are for sure I do not, and this talk about past lives I have no qualification to judge, but being saved by mysterious invisible votes a peculiar look is. If the truth of your allegiance we do not find today, tomorrow just end up arguing about killing you we will be doing again. And unfortunately, the best way to get to the truth is to cut you in half diagonally so the security droids can scan your insides for evidence of the death sticks from me you stole-- I mean, for Cultist activity. Terribly sorry if you're not a Cultist, but die I think you should.

Edited December 2, 2022 by Madagascar

[Channelknight Fadran]

Vote Tally
Shining Silhouette (5): DrakeMarshall, Fifth Scholar, Fadran the [Redacted], Mat, Mad
Fadran (2): Bookwyrm, Wizard