New world speculation

[Dreamwa1ker]

So Kelsier name-dropped a new place (planet?) in the Lost Metal in his epilogue: Mythos. It's pure speculation at this point as we don't have much but wanted to make a space for theories here.

Quote

“There are potential allies out there,” Kelsier said. “Moonlight’s world, perhaps. Or the land of the aethers. Hell, maybe even Mythos. We need a way to reach them.”

So what we can establish about Mythos from this very short exchange:

1. Not Moonlight’s world (we know this anyway because we know Moonlight’s world so this just confirms Mythos is not some other nickname for it)

2. Not aether planet

3. Implied it may be reached by Shadesmar (Sazed's reply is about using Shadesmar to reach out)

4. Potential allies there, presumably with some sort of power/Investiture. But Kelsier seemed to suggest it off hand as if it would be more of a stretch than Moonlight’s world or aether land. Unclear if this is due to it being a harder place to reach or that inhabitants might be more hostile or less willing allies.

So what do you think/want it to be?

My current take: simply because of the name, I would love this to be Valor's planet. Mythos just sounds like a place full of badass Spartan warriors or something like 300. Or combo of Spartans and Vikings. A land of mythical warriors could definitely be powerful allies and I also could see that if "Valor" is what is revered there they may only ally themselves with you under certain circumstances or could be risky (don't tick them off and make them your enemy).

Edited November 19, 2022 by Dreamwa1ker

[Honorless]

The other new Cosmere location namedropped was Bjendal

Quote

Travel to Bjendal has been completely upset. That’s four primary systems we can’t visit without extreme danger, if you count Roshar. I’ve said it for years: The perpendicularities are no longer viable.

And it definitely has a Perpendicularity and a Shard (or an Avatar)

[+Oltux72]

On 19.11.2022 at 3:21 AM, Honorless said:

And it definitely has a Perpendicularity and a Shard (or an Avatar)

How do you know that it has a Shard? If I were looking for allies I look at systems without Shards, so I'd get allies without complications.

[bmcclure7]

2 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

How do you know that it has a Shard? If I were looking for allies I look at systems without Shards, so I'd get allies without complications.

No magic without shards so u would have only weak allies. 

[+Oltux72]

1 minute ago, bmcclure7 said:

No magic without shards so u would have only weak allies. 

I am sorry, but no, First of the Sun disproves that notion. As do the Aethers.

[bmcclure7]

2 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

I am sorry, but no, First of the Sun disproves that notion. As do the Aethers.

Wrong, First of the sun has a avatar, and Aethers bring the same complications as the shards. 

[kenod]

15 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said:

Wrong, First of the sun has a avatar, and Aethers bring the same complications as the shards. 

Aethers bring complications, but they're still an evidence that worlds can have natural investure without needing a Shard present.

That said, the amount of investure on non-shard worlds will likely be lower, generally speaking, meaning shard worlds are better places to find stronger allies. Also, to be honest, Harmony kind of needs Shard-level allies at this point, given that his main conflict is with other shards.

[+Oltux72]

28 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said:

Wrong, First of the sun has a avatar,

It has an avatar now. That must postdate the Shattering.

But Arcane Powers there must be millions of years old. They have animals and even plants which have evolved to include telepathy into their anatomy losing eyes in favor of telepathy. Autonomy has sent an avatar there because there is a plethora of invested beings there, not the other way round.

15 minutes ago, kenod said:

Aethers bring complications, but they're still an evidence that worlds can have natural investure without needing a Shard present.

Exactly, as do dragons and the Sho Del or the Messenger MeLaan met.

And, frankly, so does Roshar. The Greatshells have evolved in a symbiosis with Spren.

15 minutes ago, kenod said:

That said, the amount of investure on non-shard worlds will likely be lower, generally speaking, meaning shard worlds are better places to find stronger allies. Also, to be honest, Harmony kind of needs Shard-level allies at this point, given that his main conflict is with other shards.

Something has happened. In fact it looks like Odium's armies are marching. The Shards are most likely preoccupied.

On 19.11.2022 at 1:42 AM, Dreamwa1ker said:

My current take: simply because of the name, I would love this to be Valor's planet. Mythos just sounds like a place full of badass Spartan warriors or something like 300.

Kelsier uses it like it is an extraordinary pick. It makes sense in the Scadrian language. No other planet does. That means Scadrians have given it that name. So they are unlikely to be in any contact, not even indirect, with it. It is literally a myth to them. That strongly suggests a candidate: Yolen

[bmcclure7]

14 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

It has an avatar now. That must postdate the Shattering.

But Arcane Powers there must be millions of years old. They have animals and even plants which have evolved to include telepathy into their anatomy losing eyes in favor of telepathy. Autonomy has sent an avatar there because there is a plethora of invested beings there, not the other way round.

Exactly, as do dragons and the Sho Del or the Messenger MeLaan met.

And, frankly, so does Roshar. The Greatshells have evolved in a symbiosis with Spren.

Something has happened. In fact it looks like Odium's armies are marching. The Shards are most likely preoccupied.

Kelsier uses it like it is an extraordinary pick. It makes sense in the Scadrian language. No other planet does. That means Scadrians have given it that name. So they are unlikely to be in any contact, not even indirect, with it. It is literally a myth to them. That strongly suggests a candidate: Yolen

Wrong, the animals have theses adaptations because of autonomy has invested their planet not because of natural evolution. This is why most of the animals ousted of the islands don't have any powers. They would have been none of this kind of animals pre autonomy.

 

The spren pre shards didn't grant powers.

How do you know Yolen doesn't have a shard?

 

The only dragon we know the location of is a shard.   I'm willing to bet that most if not all of them that remain live on shard worlds. 

 

The epilogue seems to imply that  Regardless of whether they live on a shard world or not, the sho del  Are currently in the service of a shard  Or at least something shard like.

Edited November 20, 2022 by bmcclure7

[+Oltux72]

1 minute ago, bmcclure7 said:

Wrong, the animals have theses adaptations because of autonomy has invested their planet not because of natural evolution. This is why most of the animals ousted of the islands don't have any powers. They would have been none of this kind of animals pre autonomy.

Roshar says otherwise. The animals in symbiosis have related features. And mainland birds also react to the worms.

1 minute ago, bmcclure7 said:

The spren pre shards didn't grant powers.

This is false. I am sorry, but this is obviously false.

You could not find gigantic gemhearts by mining on Roshar if greatshells did not predate the Shattering and they must have had bonds granting powers to not have collapsed under their own weight.

1 minute ago, bmcclure7 said:

How do you know Yolen doesn't have a shard?

They agree to leave it. Though, yes, in theory one may have stayed behind.

[bmcclure7]

6 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Roshar says otherwise. The animals in symbiosis have related features. And mainland birds also react to the worms.

This is false. I am sorry, but this is obviously false.

You could not find gigantic gemhearts by mining on Roshar if greatshells did not predate the Shattering and they must have had bonds granting powers to not have collapsed under their own weight.

They agree to leave it. Though, yes, in theory one may have stayed behind.

 I'm sorry I missed spoke, Let me rephrase  Pre shattering Roshar have  Magical abilities (Being lighter is not an ability it's an effect) 

 They agreed that they would not interfere with one another. So yes It's definitely possible under that there is a shard on Yolen.

 Dose Pre shattering Yolen  Have any significant powers?  This is an honest question as I have never read dragon steel  I only know that it had an extremely weak and limited form of light weaving. 

Edited November 20, 2022 by bmcclure7

[kenod]

40 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said:

 Dose Pre shattering Yolen  Have any significant powers?  This is an honest question as I have never read dragon steel  I only know that it had an extremely weak and limited form of light weaving. 

It did. Lightweaving seems to have been more powerful as well, iirc, something about the shattering broke it. Aside from that, there was microkinesis, which allowed for perceiving and manipulating Axi, which, according to a Roshar Arcanum (RoW, iirc), was powerful enough to have caused some kind of big disaster, which was the reason Honor and Cultivation placed stricter limits on Surges linked to Axi manipulation.

[Honorless]

2 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

How do you know that it has a Shard? If I were looking for allies I look at systems without Shards, so I'd get allies without complications.

It has a Perpendicularity and is called a "primary system"

(Since they counted four... one being Roshar, another obviously being Sel, probably another being Taldain as Autonomy closed the Perpendicularity, and the last being... First of the Sun?)

[+Oltux72]

11 minutes ago, Honorless said:

It has a Perpendicularity and is called a "primary system"

Oathbringer told us that the perpendicularity exists. But the avatar? When was it called "primary"? When ghostbloods talk about systems to travel to? Primary is likelier to have an economic sense here.

11 minutes ago, Honorless said:

(Since they counted four... one being Roshar, another obviously being Sel, probably another being Taldain as Autonomy closed the Perpendicularity, and the last being... First of the Sun?)

I would doubt that. To be so alarming the loss of reachable planets must be recent and it needs to be connected to Shadesmar specifically. "Travel to Bjendal has been completely upset." If you identify Bjendal with First of the Sun, Patji has been being a dangerous passage for times immemorial. Roshar has become a war zone. That getting there is a problem is not that alarming. In fact the proposed treaty does say nothing about continuing the war in Shadesmar.

At the risk of repeating myself, it seems to me that Odium's forces are on the march and attacking subastrals. Thus Bjendal is really a new planet.

[Honorless]

1 hour ago, Oltux72 said:

I would doubt that. To be so alarming the loss of reachable planets must be recent and it needs to be connected to Shadesmar specifically. "Travel to Bjendal has been completely upset." If you identify Bjendal with First of the Sun, Patji has been being a dangerous passage for times immemorial. Roshar has become a war zone. That getting there is a problem is not that alarming. In fact the proposed treaty does say nothing about continuing the war in Shadesmar.

At the risk of repeating myself, it seems to me that Odium's forces are on the march and attacking subastrals. Thus Bjendal is really a new planet.

Oops, I missed that it's four including Bjendal 

[bmcclure7]

6 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Oathbringer told us that the perpendicularity exists. But the avatar? When was it called "primary"? When ghostbloods talk about systems to travel to? Primary is likelier to have an economic sense here.

I would doubt that. To be so alarming the loss of reachable planets must be recent and it needs to be connected to Shadesmar specifically. "Travel to Bjendal has been completely upset." If you identify Bjendal with First of the Sun, Patji has been being a dangerous passage for times immemorial. Roshar has become a war zone. That getting there is a problem is not that alarming. In fact the proposed treaty does say nothing about continuing the war in Shadesmar.

At the risk of repeating myself, it seems to me that Odium's forces are on the march and attacking subastrals. Thus Bjendal is really a new planet.

 Why would you think that odium's forces are on the March?

[+Oltux72]

30 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said:

 Why would you think that odium's forces are on the March?

The temporal proximity to SA#5 is too close. And the voyages are still possible, but dangerous, And the blockages are arising within a relatively short time, but not simultaneously. It fits military activity.

[bmcclure7]

1 hour ago, Oltux72 said:

The temporal proximity to SA#5 is too close. And the voyages are still possible, but dangerous, And the blockages are arising within a relatively short time, but not simultaneously. It fits military activity.

That feels like a leap to say that his army is going anywhere.  

[+Oltux72]

7 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

That feels like a leap to say that his army is going anywhere.  

Something is affecting large parts of Shadesmar. This is happening a few years after the True Desolation. What else would it be? Autonomy? If that is the proposal you need to explain why she is attacking both sides in the Rosharan war.

[bmcclure7]

13 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Something is affecting large parts of Shadesmar. This is happening a few years after the True Desolation. What else would it be? Autonomy? If that is the proposal you need to explain why she is attacking both sides in the Rosharan war.

 Why do you think it's all one thing. It seemed to me that they were talking about a series of local disasters in a number of systems. It was all caused by odium I think they would have said so. 

[+Oltux72]

1 minute ago, bmcclure7 said:

 Why do you think it's all one thing. It seemed to me that they were talking about a series of local disasters in a number of systems. It was all caused by odium I think they would have said so. 

Because that would not alarm the Ghostbloods and lead Kelsier with centuries of experience to confront Harmony. The Ghostbloods know how to confront locally dangerous areas.  They have aviar. They get stuff from Threnody.. They have contact to Sel.

[bmcclure7]

Just now, Oltux72 said:

Because that would not alarm the Ghostbloods and lead Kelsier with centuries of experience to confront Harmony. The Ghostbloods know how to confront locally dangerous areas.  They have aviar. They get stuff from Threnody.. They have contact to Sel.

There not alarmed. They never once mention anything about been alarmed, there just frustrated that cognitive realm travel is impractical.  

[+Oltux72]

9 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said:

There not alarmed. They never once mention anything about been alarmed, there just frustrated that cognitive realm travel is impractical.  

Kelsier wants a space programme and a eugenics movement for a reason.

[bmcclure7]

30 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Kelsier wants a space programme and a eugenics movement for a reason.

Yeah, she's called autonomy 

Edited November 21, 2022 by bmcclure7

[+Oltux72]

3 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

Yeah, she's called autonomy 

Not really:

Quote

"We need a way to reach them."
"Shadesmar -"
"Is unreliable," Kelsier said "I know you're barely able to get the kandra out into the wider cosmere; it's untenable for large-scale travel. Besides, crossing it anymore is like walking into the hands of various gods who absolutely want us dead."

Now, you could interpret that like the geometry of Shadesmar itself is changing.

But multiple gods want you dead. And Roshar is one of those worlds. War is just the simplest explanation and you need multiple gods.