The First Fifteen Vials of Waxillium Ladrian

[Proletariat]

On 17/12/2022 at 2:24 AM, robardin said:

This is my #1 beef with TLM.

Sure, confirming a second Shardic antagonist in the Cosmere was neat, and all the cosmere-wide, off-planet character cameos were fun, including the official, canonical introduction of "aethers" - as well as the strong suggestion that, taking place as it does between SA5 and SA6, Something Big Went Down On Roshar In SA5 that we don't yet know about at the time of TLM's publishing...

...but that latter angle isn't going to age well past the actual publication of SA5. Meanwhile, I'm left with feeling like the Era 2 cycle is missing a LOT of loose end tie-ups.

Who created the Bands and how? What is the deal with Kelsier's eye spike and physical (?) presence, but no Allomancy? What are the Excisors and how do they work to create medallions? How do/did the Southerners have Metalborn? Heck, just how do those airships fly?!

I guess the whole "Wonderful World of the Malwish Consortium" deep dive was always intended for Mistborn Era 3 (originally to be Era 2) and he didn't want to jog that too hard, as their Metallic Arts based tech is going to drive a lot of stuff in the future. I get it, but I'd say this is the first time I've felt as much (or more) frustrated as awed by the end of a Sanderson novel that ostensibly capped a series.

EDIT: and this hot-off-the-presses (from Dec 2022) WoB says as much!

 

Yeah, I mean as far as the narrative I think that BoM was actually a better note to end Era 2 upon had the Malwish kept the bands. I loved the book and we got great moments that I really enjoyed, but aside from Wayne the character arcs were a bit directionless with Marasi being the great example of having an adventure with the Ghostbloods that didn't actually progress her character (and a senior politician aligned with the Ghostbloods actually could've been significant for Era 3).

A part of me wonders if we got this much Ghostbloods stuff at once because of the delays to Elantris 2 and 3, which presumably otherwise would've introduced Autonomy and the Selish worldhoppers and built upon the things simmering in Stormlight Archive about Thaidakar.

 

On the broader topic I think Harmony was and is somewhat unsure as to what exactly happened with Wax after the explosion, and withheld information so that it wouldn't be discovered that the experiment not only can create incredible bombs but also create Mistborn and atium alloys with which Mistborn can become almost unstoppable killers. It makes sense why he's wary of technological development in that light. I can see him putting only traces of the other metals in the first 15 vials just to experiment upon him in the short time between sending him off to Bilming and his expected death on the ship (until Wayne replaced him) where he would've super charged him with a second dose of lerasium.

Edited December 18, 2022 by Proletariat

[alder24]

10 hours ago, Proletariat said:

with Marasi being the great example of having an adventure with the Ghostbloods that didn't actually progress her character (and a senior politician aligned with the Ghostbloods actually could've been significant for Era 3).

I disagree. Marasi did have important character development. Since AoL all she wanted was to be in position to enact laws that would benefit society. She became successful constable and detective, but on meeting with Kelsiar, she realized, that Ghostbloods knew so much about Set's plans long before meeting her, and if they only would have informed Police, this could be all stoped years ago. But because of their secrecy. they narrowly avoided disaster. She can't work from shadows, and do nothing when she has power to act. She can't withhold information if that's something important (that's her thing since AoL again!). I think that Marasi decision was a right one for her character. She finally choose a position in which she can act and change Basin for better. As an ambassador and mayor she can change for everyone things in a way that as a Ghostbloods can't.

[Proletariat]

11 hours ago, alder24 said:

I disagree. Marasi did have important character development. Since AoL all she wanted was to be in position to enact laws that would benefit society. She became successful constable and detective, but on meeting with Kelsiar, she realized, that Ghostbloods knew so much about Set's plans long before meeting her, and if they only would have informed Police, this could be all stoped years ago. But because of their secrecy. they narrowly avoided disaster. She can't work from shadows, and do nothing when she has power to act. She can't withhold information if that's something important (that's her thing since AoL again!). I think that Marasi decision was a right one for her character. She finally choose a position in which she can act and change Basin for better. As an ambassador and mayor she can change for everyone things in a way that as a Ghostbloods can't.

I think that's getting into the weeds a little bit about why these things get introduced. Marasi has essentially had an arc where she is restricted by her gender, allomancy, and family circumstances from being an independent person which by Bands of Mourning had progressed to her seeing her ability could be useful, that she didn't need or even genuinely want to follow a relationship with Wax, and that she and Steris are genuinely family which is shown to us through her detaining Miles, her not only getting over Wax but rather than becoming his sidekick developing as a detective herself, and her heart to heart with Steris.

At the beginning of the novel we are shown a very confident Marasi in the beginning whose powers combined with ettmetal can take down groups of opponents, and her detective skills are arguably better than Wax's were and her political goals are much loftier. But these are the kind of ongoing depictions of someone's development you expect in a serial rather than a book, because the development that these things are trying to foster has already been more or less done. This is why Marasi exists as a whole character with these traits from the beginning of the book, and the Ghostbloods plotline is a way of saying 'well did she really develop?!' and then five minutes later that question is answered by her expressing her arc by once more doing what Wax does but better just like before.

The plot details of her specifically experiencing an adventure with the Ghostbloods given that it's the last book, and she says no so there's not an implicit story the next trilogy can relate to, then leave us with the reality that the Ghostbloods' plot will continue but hers will not and therefore this adventure didn't contribute to our cast per se but to a group who will be characters in different novels. This becomes even more blatant if we contrast this with how the Ghostbloods have been set up in other books as meaningful for ongoing character development.

I'm not saying the scenes were bad or are counter to Marasi's story, but they were a bit extraneous and more what you'd expect for a novella or a Secret History. It's fine to acknowledge that a dessert doesn't need to be part of dinner for us to get our daily intake.

[rabidhexley]

I think the implication is that he is a weak Mistborn. The vials contained all the metals, if he was actually able to burn them properly Harmony would have told him what was up. And the final vial was just a contingency. But it was generally just an experiment on Harmony's part to see what had happened to Wax, but his plan wasn't contingent on Wax having anything other than his normal Twinborn powers.

 

I agree with the critiques regarding the lack of overall consequence to Era 2, but that was kind of always going to be the case it seemed, Era 3 is still the real next Era. This was mostly an opportunity for Sanderson to get everyone up to speed on Scadrial couched in a Cosmere-flavored adventure. Though some of these discussions do have me wondering when we're going to see the Cosmere-fan Civil War. Where stories start having more consequence in the greater Cosmere, and we start to see debates on how much each series should be independent from the others and if Sanderson is going to far (Personally I don't think so, when we're 7-8 books deep in a series I think it's safe for Sanderson to assume people are fans to an extent). I've already seen a few comments very reminiscent of complaints regarding another franchise of interconnected stories.

Edited December 20, 2022 by rabidhexley

[Starganderfish]

On 18/11/2022 at 2:35 AM, Ciridae said:

I agree that Wax is a baby-mistborn.

…

There are probably other examples, could be fun to see if we can find him using emotional allomancy somewhere. Maybe when he's trying to cheer up Wayne at one point?

Not specifically emotional Allomancy, more likely a copper-cloud when he meets Marsh for the first time:

Chapter 28:

“Something emanated from him. A dread that crushed the soul like a hand around yesterday’s broadsheet. A … No, Wax thought. I do not fear this. I’ve stared down death already. Strangely, the sensation of dread evaporated from him. Had that been … emotional Allomancy? It was difficult to recognize in the throes of it, but it appeared obvious in hindsight. Yet this time it didn’t affect Wax as it did everyone else, including Marasi, judging by how pale her face had gone.”

Pulling the vial into his hand and sporadically seeing metal-lines without consciously burning his steel (Iron), not feeling his punches as much as expected  and enduring the cold water (Pewter), seeing through the mists (Tin), blocking emotional Allomancy (Copper)...

It’s pretty obvious that he’s a full Mistborn now. 
https://wob.coppermind.net/events/509/#e15957

Edited March 21, 2023 by Starganderfish

[Stormtide_Leviathan]

On 11/17/2022 at 10:35 AM, Ciridae said:

I can't remember, does leeching drain everything, or only metals you're actively burning at the time? If it drains everything, I guess it would have just been a lucky catch.

not necessarily. invested metals are harder to affect than non-invested metals, including by leeching. If someone has normal metals and metalminds in their bodies, the normal metals will leech away first. Wax is an iron ferring, who i believe was explicitly stated in this book to have some metalminds implanted under his skin to make sure he always has access to them. If you can burn a metalmind for its normal allomantic attribute, and I would think you could, then he could have burned just a fraction of a metalmind that would have survived the leeching.