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Worldhopper Identification


AndrolGenhald

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  • Hoid is super obvious
  • Codenames Are Stupid is Kaise from Elantris. Name is a giveaway, confirmation when she says "I with my brother were here...He'd do this math easily"
  • TwinSoul we've never met (cool to see someone connected to an Aether though!)
  • Moonlight is Shai. She uses soulstamps, and when Essence Marked as an Elantrian calls herself "Shay-I...Blessed of the Shay-ode"
  • An unknown Seon (Edit: Per @marching_miner it's Dao)
  • Nazh is in the broadsheets again

I wasn't paying super close attention, how many did I miss?

Edit: How could I forget Dlavil, Iyatil's brother!

Per @teknopathetic

  • Skybreakers helping scuttle ships at the end (maybe, lots of debate) Disconfirmed by WoB
  • Iriali in Bilming, Maraga mentions "those people with the golden hair living on the east side"
Edited by AndrolGenhald
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We also get some Skybreakers it sounds like in the last part. The main man of the Ghostblood contingent  asks "Are you sure it is legal [to sink the ships], and once convinced he and his friends fly off. Steris assumes they must have been undocumented Allomancers, but it seems to me these were Skybreakers for sure. 

Edited by teknopathetic
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It always seems to me that I'm the last one to catch on things, but... I didn't think Moonlight was Shai. I actually think it could be great to have another forger around, but no, obviously it is her. Also I'm still unsure about the Ghostbloods at Elendel being Skybreakers. Do you really think Skybreakers will serve Kelsier?

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46 minutes ago, teknopathetic said:

We also get some Skybreakers it sounds like in the last part. The main man of the Ghostblood contingen  asks "Are you sure it is legal [to sink the ships], and once convinced he and his friends fly off. Steris assumes they must have been undocumented Allomancers, but it seems to me these were Skybreakers for sure. 

Still unsure about this one, given how distinct the powers are, aside from pseudo-flight, so people would notice something was off very quickly, unless that bit simply wasn't included.

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8 minutes ago, kenod said:

Still unsure about this one, given how distinct the powers are, aside from pseudo-flight, so people would notice something was off very quickly, unless that bit simply wasn't included.

Well Steris didn’t pay attention. She just saw the people fly off which wouldn’t raise any questions. Plus the boats were far away and all being evacuated. There wouldn’t be witnesses 

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Also how would coinshots sink a ship just using allomancy? Sure they could have taken some kind of scuttling charges,but that would require a lot of planning and there is no indication that they were carrying anything with them. Division on the other hand would easily allow a Skybreaker to sink a ship.

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1 hour ago, Trutharchivist said:

Also I'm still unsure about the Ghostbloods at Elendel being Skybreakers. Do you really think Skybreakers will serve Kelsier?

Well to be fair, most of the Skybreakers on Roshar swore oaths to follow Nale and he is just a tad bit insane… and Szeth is sworn to Dalinar who is doing pretty okay right now, but has a seriously messed up past and to our current knowledge may have a messed up future. 

 

1 hour ago, kenod said:

Still unsure about this one, given how distinct the powers are, aside from pseudo-flight, so people would notice something was off very quickly, unless that bit simply wasn't included.

1 hour ago, teknopathetic said:

Well Steris didn’t pay attention. She just saw the people fly off which wouldn’t raise any questions. Plus the boats were far away and all being evacuated. There wouldn’t be witnesses 

My thoughts on this while reading that scene were “Oh! Knights Radiant! Oh wait, Steris didn’t comment on their flight being different… hmmm…”

I could see it going both ways. I’m pretty sure the flight styles of a coin shot vs radiant would be much different, and Steris tends to notice those things but I still lean towards radiants though. It could be a Windrunner too though, not necessarily Skybreaker. Gravitation could also sink a ship. 

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Don't Radiants glow when invested? That seems like something Steris would've noticed. The Ghostbloods might know how to hide the glow though. 

20 minutes ago, Philomath said:

It could be a Windrunner too though, not necessarily Skybreaker. 

I don't think a Windrunner would be worried about the legality of doing something that might save lives. 

 
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On a meta level, mentioning law and then sending worldhoppers out to fly seems like a choice Brandon had to know he was doing.

No one else in the books ever seems to worry about the law on screen. We are also told earlier in the book that steelpushing over water doesn’t work well. A coinshot may have pointed out the water issue, but a Skybreaker wouldn’t think twice  and again, as these people were sent by Marasi, there is no reason for anyone to pay much attention to the minutia of their powers or flight  

Another point of evidence is that we have people settling Chouta on  Scadrial. That implies a not too small population of Rosharans on the world  Added to that, we have the possible Horneater refugee population in the epilogue hinting at more mass movement or more normalized travel 

Taken together, I’m 99% sure this was a Skybreaker. If it is a skybreaker, then something has changed since RoW and maybe things are working a bit differently. Heck, maybe it is a lifelight skybreaker or human voidlight skybreaker for all we know. Or maybe there is no glow when someone uses a different fuel source. Or even, maybe people have learned to repress the glow much like learning to repress a heightening. Ghostbloods allow for many “maybe” explanations. 
 

But if they were allomancers, Brandon could have and likely would have given a different single line of dialogue to the character. Seeing as these are unnamed Ghostbloods, and that every Ghostbloods so far has been a world hopper, Brandon knows any line is going to be dissected. Mentioning “the law” is the single most obvious thing Brandon could do to signal a Skybreaker without dropping an obvious slang term or Roshar reference. 

Edited by teknopathetic
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The one thing that makes me hesitant to say those were Skybreakers at the end is the lack of characteristic surgebinder flashiness. The asking about legality and being able to use division to sink the ships makes sense, but if they were Skybreakers, then they're doing something different that hides their glow. Fueling their powers with the Mists, perhaps.

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4 hours ago, teknopathetic said:

We also get some Skybreakers it sounds like in the last part. The main man of the Ghostblood contingen  asks "Are you sure it is legal [to sink the ships], and once convinced he and his friends fly off. Steris assumes they must have been undocumented Allomancers, but it seems to me these were Skybreakers for sure. 

 

18 minutes ago, teknopathetic said:

On a meta level, mentioning law and then sending worldhoppers out to fly seems like a choice Brandon had to know he was doing.

 

Nice catch there! Seems like that one is kind of controversial, and I can see why. I'm not totally sold on it, but it does seem like Brandon had to be doing that intentionally. It does seem very odd though that there would be such a large number of Skybreakers working for the Ghostbloods not too long after SA5. I suppose maybe they could have helped evacuate some refugees and then stuck around on Scadrial?

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Also, the Irali are on Scadrial now? That Newspaper editor mentions the golden hair Faye people? 

Coppermind:“The Iriali have metallic golden-blond skin and hair that breeds true”

All this together sure makes it seem like Roshar …. That Roshar isn’t a great place to be after SA5

Edited by teknopathetic
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13 minutes ago, teknopathetic said:

Also, the Irali are on Scadrial now? That Newspaper editor mentions the good skinned Faye people? 

Coppermind:“The Iriali have metallic golden-blond skin and hair that breeds true”

All this together sure makes it seem like Roshar …. That Roshar isn’t a great place to be after SA5

I am not even sure Roshar will still exist after Stormlight 5 tbh.

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11 minutes ago, Storyspren said:

I am not even sure Roshar will still exist after Stormlight 5 tbh.

I’m on that side too. Roshar gets absolutely remade and is not hospitable for many people. There needs to still be a perpendicularity there though but maybe that’s a dead shardpool or something. 

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32 minutes ago, StanLemon said:

One reason I don't think they were Skybreakers was that there was no comment of Steris about their height, facial features, or accents. Those would be pretty distinctive things I'd imagine Steris would notice.

That would have made it too obvious. And it can easily be handwaved on the notion that she was heavily distracted and not paying attention.

I'm convinced now that they are indeed Skybreakers. On the note of their flight being achieved in a different way: a skilled Radiant has more refined control over the surges, making their flight look more natural. I'm sure they could also imitate the flight trajectory of a coinshot with some practice.

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2 hours ago, StanLemon said:

One reason I don't think they were Skybreakers was that there was no comment of Steris about their height, facial features, or accents. Those would be pretty distinctive things I'd imagine Steris would notice.

Well, no, not necessarily. You are making the mental shortcut of equating Skybreaker with Rosharan. If they are Skybreakers then somebody, likely the Ghostbloods, has solved the problem of getting a Spren off Roshar. If they can do that, the bondees of the Spren may or may not be Rosharan.

10 hours ago, Trutharchivist said:

Also I'm still unsure about the Ghostbloods at Elendel being Skybreakers. Do you really think Skybreakers will serve Kelsier?

In fact you could construct a narrative that the rightful ruler of Scadrial is Kelsier. His crew defeated The Lord Ruler and he gave the Shard of Preservation up voluntarily. Hence he kind of inherited Scadrial. To a certain kind of Survivorist that will sound plausible.

8 hours ago, Khornate said:

Don't Radiants glow when invested? That seems like something Steris would've noticed. The Ghostbloods might know how to hide the glow though.

Surgebinders using Stormlight glow. What fuels them on Scadrial is an open question, as @Cocoa suggested

8 hours ago, Philomath said:

Well to be fair, most of the Skybreakers on Roshar swore oaths to follow Nale and he is just a tad bit insane… and Szeth is sworn to Dalinar who is doing pretty okay right now, but has a seriously messed up past and to our current knowledge may have a messed up future.

.Exactly. And they fought on Odium's side. Depending on the end of SA5 many Skybreakers respectively their Spren may no longer be welcome on Roshar respectively on Roshar's astral and Navani has created a reason treasonous Spren now have a very good reason to fear revenge.

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5 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

In fact you could construct a narrative that the rightful ruler of Scadrial is Kelsier. His crew defeated The Lord Ruler and he gave the Shard of Preservation up voluntarily. Hence he kind of inherited Scadrial. To a certain kind of Survivorist that will sound plausible.

Yeah, but in a way, the reasons Marasi had to not working with the Ghostbloods were very Skybreaker-y reasons: they don't care to cooperate with local law enforcement.

Kelsier, in most places outside Scadrial, leads something that can easily be seen as a criminal organization. This is who he is. His organization has 3 rules - protect Scadrial, don't keep any secrets from other organization members but keep them from anyone else and don't go after other organization members. At least one of those laws is going to conflict with the law - I believe hiding information from an enforcer of the law is a crime. And if you claim that for Kelsier it isn't, well in that case he just ordered them to help Steris, and they shouldn't question the legality of actions done under (eventually) orders from the man who represents the law to them.

Yeah, there are some holes in this argument, but it's enough for me to hold yo my position on the matter until Brandon says otherwise.

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4 minutes ago, Trutharchivist said:

Yeah, but in a way, the reasons Marasi had to not working with the Ghostbloods were very Skybreaker-y reasons: they don't care to cooperate with local law enforcement.

Yes. She would make an acceptable Skybreaker. But not the only kind. And Kelsier would obviously prescreen the candidates for a Spren.

The Skybreakers are not primitive. They are capable of dealing with a situation where you have a limited body of universal law valid on the whole planet coupled with various local laws covering the rest. That was sort of the situation of medieval Europe with canon law being universal and coexisting with, yet superior to, local rules.

4 minutes ago, Trutharchivist said:

Kelsier, in most places outside Scadrial, leads something that can easily be seen as a criminal organization. This is who he is. His organization has 3 rules - protect Scadrial, don't keep any secrets from other organization members but keep them from anyone else and don't go after other organization members.

That is an almost perfect description of the government of an imperialist country. Yet they have law. Skybreakers need rules. They do not need rules under which everybody or every planet is equal.

4 minutes ago, Trutharchivist said:

At least one of those laws is going to conflict with the law - I believe hiding information from an enforcer of the law is a crime.

That depends on the laws of the land. But that is the core feature of the Skybreakers. They are perfectly aware that laws conflict. That is why you pick one set and then stick to it.

4 minutes ago, Trutharchivist said:

And if you claim that for Kelsier it isn't, well in that case he just ordered them to help Steris, and they shouldn't question the legality of actions done under (eventually) orders from the man who represents the law to them.

That really depends on his orders. He may have told them that a threat of that magnitude overrides all local law. But if he neglected to do that, as we may suspect, Skybreakers being under his command being a relatively new development, they would ask that question.

 

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For all the reasons cited I am not particularly happy if the eight flying Ghostblood "sleeper agents" sent to help Steris in Elendel turn out to be Skybreakers... Them being Rosharan should stand out more (height, eyes, etc.), unless none of them are Alethi, flying with Surges should be obviously different from Steelpushing, where's the glow of Stormlight (or are they fueled differently?), etc.

But it is true, the specific concern for legality (and none other) seemed like a "tell" for a Skybreaker, coupled with flying away. And there are a LOT of hints in TLM that something has happened on Roshar in SA5 to cause quite a stir.

It's not safe to go there any more.

The "fairy-like, golden-haired" people on the east side of Bilming are apparently Iriali, who brought chouta along with them (the chouta stand was also in Bilming, near where the Sentinel of Truth broadsheet offices were).

We don't know if chouta had spread yet into Iri, but as of Words of Radiance it had only just started gaining ground in the Alethi war camps on the Shattered Plains, so who knows. After all, in Oathbringer, the restaurant in besieged Kholinar, where Shallan meets Hoid and learns about bringing food to the leaders of the Cult of Moments to gain entry into the palace, had a sign outside advertising chouta.

So maybe it had just become popular all over Roshar. Or maybe there are also Herdazians in Bilming too, haha! (Though you obviously don't have to be Herdazian to sell chouta; that restaurant owner in Kholinar wasn't described as one.)

If you think all those hundreds of strangely dressed, oddly red-haired people where MeLaan arrives in Shadesmar in her epilogue to TLM are Horneater refugees...

...and the fact that Kelsier had earlier authorized not just Moonlight and TwinSoul to use the "stores of purified Dor" but had added, "Authorize the other cells to access theirs as well, and pass the Command to them"...

...well, maybe it's not so unrealistic for eight refugee Skybreakers from Roshar, heretofore without their Surgebinding while adopting local identities in Elendel after joining the Ghostbloods, to show up and be able to fly without Stormlight glowing.

In fact, once you go down that route of concluding these are Skybreakers, there is an obvious answer as to how the storms there could be EIGHT Skybreakers following Kelsier, while leaving Roshar (however that's achieved):

They had sworn to Nalan for the Ideal of Dedication, something Nale himself had said had happened in Oathbringer while counseling Szeth not to do likewise, who would therefore have the authority/ability to transfer that allegiance to someone he saw fit for it. Like to Kelsier. Upon something happening on Roshar to cause quite a lot of exodus.

Edited by robardin
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23 hours ago, Trutharchivist said:

It always seems to me that I'm the last one to catch on things, but... I didn't think Moonlight was Shai.

You are not alone lol. So ever since I got the wool pulled over my eyes with Azure I have paid close attention to names so I was tipped off on this one Moonlight because of Moon Scepter. 

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