Mat Posted November 21, 2022 Report Share Posted November 21, 2022 9 minutes ago, The Bookwyrm said: It's day one, and we're filled with CHAOS! That's all. (But seriously, it's hard to read anyone accurately at this stage.) I don't think Insanity's posted either. So this is a weird response :P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bookwyrm Posted November 21, 2022 Report Share Posted November 21, 2022 (edited) Just now, Matrim's Dice said: I don't think Insanity's posted either. So this is a weird response :P. Refer to the aforementioned CHAOS! That's why I retracted my Insanity vote, though. Edited November 21, 2022 by The Bookwyrm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turtle Posted November 21, 2022 Report Share Posted November 21, 2022 3 minutes ago, Kasimir said: The what. The frith the what. Bro. Has Alv even voted yet. Am I drunk. Are we looking at the same game. feel this don’t really understand any reads made during rvs abt rvs its whatever but a god read if it’s right lmao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Araris Valerian Posted November 21, 2022 Report Share Posted November 21, 2022 1 minute ago, The Bookwyrm said: Alvron hasn't posted yet....I'm confused. It doesn’t mater if he’s posted. I just have this weird suspicion that he’s gonna murder me, and in this case that makes him evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat Posted November 21, 2022 Report Share Posted November 21, 2022 Just now, The Bookwyrm said: CHAOS! That's not an excuse, especially when you quoted Araris and pointed out that Alv hasn't posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bookwyrm Posted November 21, 2022 Report Share Posted November 21, 2022 Just now, Matrim's Dice said: That's not an excuse, especially when you quoted Araris and pointed out that Alv hasn't posted. I did retract my Insanity vote. It was a poke vote, because she's new, and I have a tendency to tease her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cash67 Posted November 21, 2022 Report Share Posted November 21, 2022 Is this the gambit we were warned about @Araris Valerian? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat Posted November 21, 2022 Report Share Posted November 21, 2022 1 minute ago, The Bookwyrm said: I did retract my Insanity vote. It was a poke vote, because she's new, and I have a tendency to tease her. I know, and you retracting the poke before she posted is a different conversation, but my point was that you were quick to tell Araris that Alv hasn't posted, but didn't bother mentioning that Insanity hasn't (and I'd argue you implied she had, whether on purpose or not) 1 minute ago, Cash67 said: Is this the gambit we were warned about @Araris Valerian? Warned about where? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Araris Valerian Posted November 21, 2022 Report Share Posted November 21, 2022 1 minute ago, Cash67 said: Is this the gambit we were warned about @Araris Valerian? You cannot fathom the depths of my gambitry! But no. It’s an attempt to kill a beloved friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cash67 Posted November 21, 2022 Report Share Posted November 21, 2022 3 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said: You cannot fathom the depths of my gambitry! But no. It’s an attempt to kill a beloved friend. Dang, a little more intense then! I like how this games atmosphere is shaping up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bookwyrm Posted November 21, 2022 Report Share Posted November 21, 2022 31 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said: you were quick to tell Araris that Alv hasn't posted, but didn't bother mentioning that Insanity hasn't (and I'd argue you implied she had, whether on purpose or not) Okay. I did not mean to imply that Insanity had posted, whether or not it happened. Araris said that their vote was based on previous "votes", though that was unclear. From my perspective, it seemed like they were implying that Alvron had voted previously, and that Alv's vote was suspicious. So I guess we're all accidentally implying things that we don't mean to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasimir Posted November 21, 2022 Report Share Posted November 21, 2022 27 minutes ago, Kasimir said: There's a meta reason I dislike it, and that has to do with a period in SE history where a lot of players were pinned down by playstyle, sometimes into playstyles that made them unhappy and they weren't allowed to change. I can give you the citations in a bit, I'm just cutting this short because Araris did something kayana I don't understand and it is very important to me I yell about it. Right. @Shining Silhouette K so where was I. As I was saying, the context you kinda need is that SE used to be a lot less forgiving to players who wanted to change playstyle. I found the Alv quote I'm looking for here: On 11/8/2017 at 11:07 AM, Alvron said: Now then, on to the part of having fun. The tough part is that there is no correct way to have fun. Some players love the part where they get to hunt down elims by analyzing posts and patterns. Other just enjoy RP or being part of a group involved in the hunting. Some elims enjoy trying to con the other players while others enjoy making plots and plans. Even others just like to kill folks. Everyone has their own definition of fun and every single one of them is correct. The hard part is when they conflict with each other. Those that like to go over every word looking for hints have a tough time with those that just want to RP. There is no hard and fast way to correct this. Instead everyone just needs to remember that there are other people on the other side of that screen you're looking at. If they want to RP, let them. Sure it might be a trick to hide their evilness but that's a risk you should take. Nothing is more important than having fun. Typecasting, heh, type, get it? Eh, you got no sense of humour. Typecasting is a problem. Some players are known for their long analyzing posts but when they try to do something different like RP or just have a different kind of fun or just not post as often, even when they say so before the game starts in the sign ups, players tend to think that means they are evil and try and lynch them. Or the elims themselves try and use it as an excuse for their votes. That ruins the fun for that person. I admit that even I am guilty for doing that both as a villager and an elim. Even if it's a player known to be erratic, any time they try and become more serious and help the village, they tend to be ignored. We had a player long ago Lightsworn Panda, who played the same character in every game. Jain and his stuffed Panda. He was by his own admission erratic like someone on crack. He was great fun to play with and his RP was fantastic but he never really did any serious analyzing. Until LG8, where he really stepped up and had the elims pegged. Sadly though, he was completely ignored by the village which let the Kandra win. We didn't even kill him until the last round as even with tagging us, he was no threat because no one took him seriously and joined his votes. It's hard but the best each of us can do is treat each player as if they are new. No preconceived notions or expectations. No added weight to their words just because they've played a pile of games or found all the elims by themselves once long ago. A clean slate for all players each game. Emphases mine. You can find the post in context here: But this recurs every once in a while. People feel like they're kind of stuck in one way of doing things or they get @ for not doing it. Ngl it's how I feel sometimes because I get @ for not actually being in the thick of it as a Villager when sometimes I'm having a bad couple of days and don't really just wanna engage and just want to sit there and let the world go on without me. But yah I get I'm part of the problem here because V!me is usually too keen to get into the fray so when everything is going right, by right I will be there where the brawling is and I go stir-crazy if I just sit quietly and don't try to solve so wcyd sort of a problem of my own making. So yeah I get it. So in general we've shifted the needle now to letting players explore different playstyles if they mention they're exploring, or at least giving that some sort of grace, which I think is the better way to slice it. I'd rather let a potential Elim slip past and catch them on something else rather than create a meta where playstyle shifts are overscrutinised and therefore discouraged. The tldr; is It Depends but for very obvious reasons if you do Thing A five times as a Villager and Thing B five times as an Elim, people are probably going to try to make an alignment inference and it might actually be correct. That's kinda what we'd call a tell YMMV. Which is neither here nor there, and you get a shrug from me on whether you get a Village point for the question because it's A Question but not necessarily a game question and I guess I'm not in a read posts mood today. I guess we could ask why I'm even answering this but whatevs this is a thread PM now. Also yeah actually the original question is just really weird broski how is a change in playstyle supposed to cause a change in alignment, that's a fundamental GM/RNGesus choice how did I not notice. I could be a troll and argue causation is a bunk concept and even if we think it isn't, correlation can't prove causation, but stepping aside from that can of worms, they're just two independent things. The real causal direction we're interested in is whether change of alignment causes a change in playstyle, to which the answer is: probably yes for most players, but to temper it: also probably fairly undetectable in many, or at least, you're better off looking at other things to find Elims, maybe not a bad basis on which to put the pressure D1. But also there are meta SE reasons why I'm happy to give a pass to it, and I do seriously doubt that we actually reliably/often enough ID the actually indicative things, only things that we think are indicative. And temper that with the fact that SE players often give their capabilities too much credit on both sides of the fence (or I'm drunk enough to say this out loud) and you have a right mess. Yah I think I'm just tired and drunk today. I saw Bookwyrm reading the thread and Wiz and somehow my brain read it as Wyrmhero which gave me a moment of sudden great joy and fear :| 31 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said: You cannot fathom the depths of my gambitry! But no. It’s an attempt to kill a beloved friend. Would anyone really be expecting you to be trying to get Alv to post? Stick with my apologies but it's no longer your birthday in my timezone. Happy birthday Mat :eyes: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat Posted November 21, 2022 Report Share Posted November 21, 2022 Just now, Kasimir said: Happy birthday Mat :eyes: You're early, come back in about three weeks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasimir Posted November 21, 2022 Report Share Posted November 21, 2022 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said: You're early, come back in about three weeks That's fine, I can keep my vote on you for three weeks! Edited to add: Hi @Elkanah, I've been seeing you on the thread maybe thrice now. What's up? :eyes: Edited November 21, 2022 by Kasimir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elkanah Posted November 21, 2022 Report Share Posted November 21, 2022 Hello! I am caught up! Hooray! I've been peeking in while working. I don't remember that post by Alvron, but that was a good discussion, Kasimir. Subtly disregarding it, though for the following: I second the vote on Alvron for either voting suspiciously or not and cast the summoning spell that Kas has taught us. @Alvron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Szeth_Pancakes Posted November 21, 2022 Report Share Posted November 21, 2022 (edited) Hi from the west coast, where it’s been the nighttimes. I don’t think TUO/N has posted. hey you can change colors with the top bar on mobile now that’s neat Edit: why is everyone voting for Alvron when they haven’t posted yet?? please explain Edited November 21, 2022 by Szeth_Pancakes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archer Posted November 21, 2022 Report Share Posted November 21, 2022 3 minutes ago, Szeth_Pancakes said: Edit: why is everyone voting for Alvron Quote they haven’t posted yet?? You answered your own question there. 32 minutes ago, Elkanah said: Hello! I am caught up! Hooray! I've been peeking in while working. I see that white text And thus don't have to chastise you for the folly of an effort clear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfiniteInsanity Posted November 21, 2022 Report Share Posted November 21, 2022 1 hour ago, The Bookwyrm said: ....Okay, then... @InfiniteInsanity, do you have anything to say about this? Mat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashbringer Posted November 21, 2022 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2022 Vote Count: Matrim's Dice (3): Shining Silhouette, Kasimir, InfiniteInsanity The Unknown Order (2): _Stick_, Szeth_Pancakes Alvron (2): Araris Valerian, Elkanah Chantara (1): The Wandering Wizard InfiniteInsanity (1): Matrim's Dice The Wandering Wizard (1): Archer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bookwyrm Posted November 21, 2022 Report Share Posted November 21, 2022 1 minute ago, InfiniteInsanity said: Mat Insanity: HELLO THIS IS A RETALIATION VOTE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Szeth_Pancakes Posted November 21, 2022 Report Share Posted November 21, 2022 8 minutes ago, Archer said: You answered your own question there. *Sue from Mythic Quest voice* So… you’re telling me that there have been two pages of analysis BASED ON A POKE VOTE??? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elkanah Posted November 21, 2022 Report Share Posted November 21, 2022 @Shining Silhouette Spoiler Spoiler I have realized I was eavesdropping on your private conversation with Kasimir and I apologize. I will try to do better. He did make some really interesting points, though. My spell worked! I need to get better at it though. I saw Alvron view the thread momentarily, but I failed to have enough juju to summon his words. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasimir Posted November 21, 2022 Report Share Posted November 21, 2022 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Szeth_Pancakes said: *Sue from Mythic Quest voice* So… you’re telling me that there have been two pages of analysis BASED ON A POKE VOTE??? No. Do you have something you'd like to start discussion on? Edited to add: Just now, Elkanah said: @Shining Silhouette Hide contents Hide contents I have realized I was eavesdropping on your private conversation with Kasimir and I apologize. I will try to do better. He did make some really interesting points, though. My spell worked! I need to get better at it though. I saw Alvron view the thread momentarily, but I failed to have enough juju to summon his words. Oh yeah, my bad sorry, I should've used the double spoilers as well to denote this was a Thread PM, my bad, thank you for graciously pretending you didn't see it Elk, I owe you one Edited November 21, 2022 by Kasimir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Szeth_Pancakes Posted November 21, 2022 Report Share Posted November 21, 2022 Just now, Kasimir said: Do you have something you'd like to start discussion on? *taps pencil* Hmm, no, no. I’m just going to go back downstairs because you’re all STORMING CRAZY. Spoiler I’m still doing a bit btw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfiniteInsanity Posted November 21, 2022 Report Share Posted November 21, 2022 5 minutes ago, The Bookwyrm said: Insanity: HELLO THIS IS A RETALIATION VOTE Oh. Oooh!! Your member title makes sense now!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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