Lost Metal Full Book Reactions (Cosmere Edition)

[Dreamwa1ker]

On 11/15/2022 at 2:16 PM, Isilel said:

there is no way that the Set wouldn't have discovered the god metals, after all their experimentation with blowing up ettmetal with trellium, if they had been the normal product of this process.

Maybe Intent is important here. Wax was actively trying to split harmonium into its parts, the Set were trying to make a bomb? Maybe you have to have the intent to split it?

 

Then again, you'd think the Set also would have tried to get lerasium and atium so maybe that's not it ...

[+Oltux72]

Wax first used acids and bases on the material and tested it for hardness. Maybe it is the metal his lab equipment is made of. Maybe it is the box he used. Maybe it is exposing te Trellium spike to Steelpushing before he used it to influence the Harmonium. He ran his experiment under ground level. And so on. The are a lot of variables if you want to be really thorough.

Experimental science in an unknown field is hard.

[Dreamwa1ker]

I actually really enjoyed the Marasi plotline with the Ghostbloods for the most part (though it ended a bit too quickly to me). I think my favorite part of it was the bit where she is with Moonlight, meeting and then running around with the other Ghostbloods - this group of people with vastly different abilities from around the Cosmere working together was like a fun "The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen" kind of vibe. Maybe it's partly the slightly steam punk setting of Era 2 together with it giving me that feeling.

Also - vote Marasi 2024 

I adored Wayne's whole arc and I cried. I hope in Era 3 we see a lot of his impacts, the father of noseball league and things named after him.

Wax fighting up the Shaw was action movie awesomeness.

I LOVED Steris getting some recognition for how amazing she is

At the end the conversation between Kelsier and Harmony - this quote: 

Quote

“Have I ever lied to you, old friend?” 

Uh you literally did 2 mins before this about the Lerasium from Wax's experiment. Actually you have probably been lying through your teeth to lots of folks....going to have to reassess everything he has said now. Was he really so helpless or blinded or is some of it an act?

I am getting a sneaking suspicion that in same way that Marsh and TenSoon have cameos in Era 2, Wax might have a cameo in Era 3 now. He has a spike, and there was still whatever happened to him from the lab experiment (seems like a mild Mistborn) - might he live longer than normal? I feel we still need some payoff from what happened there as Harmony brushed it aside when talking to Wayne saying it didn't work and I think Harmony lied here too. Maybe it could come in Secret History 2

Edited November 18, 2022 by Dreamwa1ker

[teknopathetic]

3 hours ago, Green Hoodie Mistborn said:

:shrug:

I mean she also calls the Shaod "Shay-ode" post transformation and Tia as "Tye-A", though that could be due to Marisai' hearing vs what is being said specifically. 

Maybe calling herself "Shay-I" is Sanderson's way of saying this is Shai.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love Shai and Emperor's Soul, it's one of my favorite stories. I just don't want this to be Shai is all, though the Coppermind seems to have decided that it is 100% her since Moonlight's transformation is referenced under the Shai page's Essences Mark's entry section now  

The Cosmere is a big place, so it's just a bit disappointing to not expand our cast of characters with a new Forger to me is all. 

The fact she is watching Hoid and keeping track of him is another clue. I think we can be 100% it is Shai IMO with everything we have. 

[Requiem17]

There was so much else I was ready to discuss about for this book, and I'm trapped in Wayne's death.

Huge credits to Brandon, because he captured the experience around a shocking death of a family member who died young. I identified with Marasi throughout the books, and her finding out Wayne was dead-- that feeling of safety, then dread, the feeling like the world is cracking, the terrible grief immediately held back by an incredible denial-- it is so true to my own life and the way it felt. I thought I was mostly over it, and I'm clearly not. This hurts so, so bad.

For whatever else we're going to say about this book, to me what Brandon did here is incredible. Not just that he wrote that scene with Marasi, but that he made me really feel the family between these characters before he broke me with it. 

[Kasimir]

I think I saw Chaos's review before reading TLM and sort of just went "Ok, different strokes from different folks" and expected to like the book more, but instead, just found myself vibing with it. TLM is a quintessential 3.5/5 sort of book for me: I liked the character arcs (except Wax, Wax just felt all over the place), I liked how much we got to get inside Wayne's head, really liked what we saw of the Ghostbloods and the Marsh and Kelsier appearances. And finally, aethers!

But I felt it didn't hang together very well and the pacing was just off. I felt like I was being sold, prompted, set-up for a 24 sort of book, featuring a CT operation, and I ended up reading something that didn't really know whether it was still based in the Roughs-to-urban investigations that was there in the previous installments or going full pedal to metal.

Real Big Damn Heroes or Batman vibes from Wayne's death though. Respect to Wayne, that was truly the biggest and most magnificent damn explosion, and a helluva way to go.

[StormingTexan]

55 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

I think I saw Chaos's review before reading TLM and sort of just went "Ok, different strokes from different folks" and expected to like the book more,

Exact same here. His spoiler free review was really fair and pretty much echos what I think. Not that this was a bad book but I just didn't feel like it was tight or tidy enough for a series conclusion. 

[Kasimir]

8 minutes ago, StormingTexan said:

Exact same here. His spoiler free review was really fair and pretty much echos what I think. Not that this was a bad book but I just didn't feel like it was tight or tidy enough for a series conclusion. 

Basically my thoughts, yeah. I liked a lot of individual moments, and I really did enjoy the book - I loved Wax going full Sword mode, Marasi talking to the kidnapped Allomancers, and Wayne's heroic moment(s). It's just that I also had a "Wait, that's it?" sort of feeling when the book was done, and I think I was a bit disappointed or at least ambivalent, in a way I haven't been about most of Wax and Wayne. 'Tight and tidy' is one way of expressing some of the hesitation I had with this book, I think!

Edited November 18, 2022 by Kasimir

[Captain Coffee]

I have loved Era 2 from beginning to end. Bands of Mourning is my second favorite Sanderson book (Warbreaker is #1). Wax is my favorite characters in the Cosmere. As far as I'm concerned, Brandon completed the assignment (as much as he said he had stopped trying to do that in his speech). 

Wayne saving the day was one of the things that should have been obvious given the way Era 1 ended. We all assumed (or at least I did) that Vin was the Hero of Ages, and when it turned out to be Sazed, I was confused, but also everything else made more sense. Part of me thought this book would end up with either Wayne or Steris taking up one or both shards. Wax was our main hero for most of the series, but at the end of the day one of his friends was the hero we actually needed. That is what Mistborn is.

I loved watching Wax bring his detective skills to his political role. I feel like he has really learned to be a whole person. His embrace of being Harmony's Sword and representing Ruin was terrifying and awesome. I was so happy that his response to Wayne saving him was not to be angry (much). He has learned that he does not have to be the hero of every story. 

Steris was amazing, as usual. But, watching her learn to accept praise from people and grow some confidence in her abilities was so good!

But, Marasi had the moment I loved most in this book. I hate the love triangle in Well of Ascension so much. Vin takes a huge step back in her relationship just to build it back to basically where it started. I loved how Marasi reacted when moonlight tried to entice her to join the Ghostbloods by saying she would know things that Wax and Wayne didn't. Then Moonlight tried to imply that Wax kept important secrets from Marasi. I was so frustrated when that conversation started that I almost put the book down for a while. But, I'm glad I didn't. In so many stories that tension would have become part of the plot and torn the team apart. But, not our crew. Marasi was like, "Wax shares what matters, and I don't keep secrets from my team. That's it. End of story" (Paraphrased, obviously). I was so happy that she was secure enough in her team, her self worth, and her mission that she cut the whole "mistrust within the team" plot off before it could even take root.

I think Marasi made the right call for herself at the end. Despite the Ghostbloods doing good work on Scadrial (probably) Marasi's strength was shown to be leading a community. You can't do that from the shadows, or at least you shouldn't. The only downside is that I feel Marasi would have made a good mentor for Moonlight.

The Ghostblood super team was super cool. I want to see so much more of that kind of thing.

I've seen lots of people saying they wish more of the larger plots had more of a concrete conclusion, but I was satisfied. This story was not, in my mind, about the larger world so much as it was about how these four people live in that world. This book was everything I wanted it to be (Except I wanted a Wax Dalinar fight in SA 5, and I don't think I'm getting it).

[ChickenChaser]

I just want to make a statement/prediction that i believe. 

Marsh is the one who helped the southern scadrians, the one who crafted the bands of mourning, the one who oversaw that ridiculous temple's construction and the one who drained the bands. I also believe he's using sculpted speed bubbles to get around without being "noticed". Or he's using stored speed in a metal mind

I can back most of it up, but i don't have an easy way to quote things from my phone. 

[Captain Coffee]

18 minutes ago, ChickenChaser said:

I just want to make a statement/prediction that i believe. 

Marsh is the one who helped the southern scadrians, the one who crafted the bands of mourning, the one who oversaw that ridiculous temple's construction and the one who drained the bands. I also believe he's using sculpted speed bubbles to get around without being "noticed". Or he's using stored speed in a metal mind

I can back most of it up, but i don't have an easy way to quote things from my phone. 

That tracks. Especially the part where Marsh does something good and Kelsier gets credit.

[notsawerd]

So much of what I liked and didn't is reflected above.  I haven't seen much talked about Wax's arc so I'll speak to that.

Wax has not been the most interesting of characters but in TLM he became a lot more interesting to me.  His interactions with his children and wife were awesome to see in a novel.  As a husband and father there are not a lot of fiction out there that portrays the joys of being a family man and I thought Brandon did a great job with this.  Especially when he is getting ready to leave and tells them that he already found the greatest treasure referring to them.  We also see Wax share the spotlight with Marasi and Wayne and doesn't feel like he has to prove himself.  He is there for Wayne and can see through his lies that he is okay.  Their talk on the billboard was a great way to explore their relationship and helped Wayne a lot and set him up to have peace.  Wax's interactions with his sister and how they drifted apart was realistic and great.  She amplified her faults from youth where Wax adapted and overcame his worst tendencies.  Wax became a complete person integrating his personal life and house responsibilites, and his unique role for Harmony.

 

I did feel that the plot did not really resolve nearly as well as the character arcs.  Too many questions about the South, BoM, hemalurgy, harmonium properties, etc.  I did appreciate closing some loose ends with the allomancer kidnappings and the Set being eliminated or nearly.  Too much was for setup for Era 3 and future novellas, but overall I really did enjoy it and didn't mind the Cosmere cameos.  It was good in that it was setting up Scadrial to be self aware that they need to step it up or they will be conquered by outsiders.

Edited November 18, 2022 by notsawerd

[StormingTexan]

25 minutes ago, notsawerd said:

His interactions with his children and wife were awesome to see in a novel.  As a husband and father there are not a lot of fiction out there that portrays the joys of being a family man and I thought Brandon did a great job with this.

This is a really good point and I wholeheartedly agree. As a husband and father as well I really connected with this aspect of his character development. I also really like seeing how he viewed Steris as someone that makes him a better person. They are a team and share respect for each other. After 20 years of marriage myself I can attest that this is critical and was fun to see on screen. 

[Honorless]

I think I saw those death flags just fine but was just deluding myself *sigh*, goodbye Wayne

A lot of callbacks to era 1 in this book, from Wax’s slaughter (with Vin and... crazy Mistborn guy who could hear Ruin in WoA), Marasi's solution to Trell (with Elend and Atium in HoA), and of course Wayne's choice (and Elend's choice)

Hoid on the boat kinda affected me emotionally, that was also kind of a parallel to him being a light in the dark to Kaladin

Wayne's thoughts in part 1 were phenomenal

I loved Bilming as a setting, much more than Luthadel or Elendel or New Seran, its quite something to imagine

Also, loved Marsh's intimidation

Cosmere tidbits were interesting here, a planet and a possibly planet / possibly location on the Cognitive Realm was namedropped (I don't think we've heard of Mythos before)

Interesting bits of lore on the Aethers planet (also I'm seriously wondering if the Aethers might seriously not be Adonalsium's)

Oh and our first time seeing a Sho Del on screen... and mention of the Yolish gods... which are apparently still a thing... just what are these things? What is Fainlife? Ugh

Harmony is close to becoming Discord, which was not unexpected. I wonder what that "shadow" of his is, some kind of Avatar or something like that forming?

It feels like future conflict between North and South might happen, and future conflict between Harmony and Autonomy, but much more juicily, future conflict between Harmony and Kelsier, they're both hiding things from one another

[Requiem17]

There are some small things I want to toss out because I think the big things are being said better than I'd say them.

1. Having Wayne mourn Tobal, who up until that point for the reader & the other characters was just a means to an end, was very beautiful. There was so much melancholy in the "only a man's whole life" line.

2. Marasi and Allik are a flip on the working husband and classic stay at home wife, and it's done very sweetly. At first I thought it odd but I came around to it by the end.  He just takes care of her, is there for her, and lets her do her thing, and he'll probably have more agency in the Southern Continent when they go there.

3. For us as readers, Jak is a doubly campy, fantastical version of Wax & his adventures, meant to be a little tongue-in-cheek on the campy stories that inspired Era 2's more "real" campy steampunk western vibe. & Nikki Sauvage is the same for Marasi. Nikki has got that less offensive except in the perfect situation power, etc. And then we have this story from her about Nazh saying goodbye right after Marasi & Wayne have their goodbye, and I really think it's a campy play on it. The campy romance near-kiss she's been wanting for six years, he taught her to curse, came into her life with bursts of adventure, picks her pocket, then leaves her behind to save the world. 

4. Wayne's mother's story is what I thought during the preview chapter discussions. Marasi flies across a (dry) river & shoots the man in the face. Steris finds the snake (Set member) in the canyon of death / den of snakes (Senate). Wax goes into the belly of the beast (staircase scene in Shaw) and pushes to choke it (knocks the rocket over), the beast dies (Telsin) and he walks out in glory (duralumin push & explosion Marasi sees). And then Wayne at the end of course (TT_TT)

 

[king of nowhere]

I normally dislike crossovers. they feel like hamfisting together stuff that don't belong for pure fanservice.

however, the cosmere is not giving me those kind of troubles. basically because of how well brandon has laid the groundwork for all of this.

gotta say, when I read that marasi was going to become a worldhopper, I was expecting poor allik to die, because he's one strong anchor binding marasi on scadrial. luckily for our masked friend, brandon does not write stereotipes. same goes for marasi trying to trick entrone into a public confession.

I was also expecting wax or wayne or both could bite the dust. since this is the end of era 2. but what a way to go!

finally, i was expecting allomancer jak to show up in person for the last book. could have been a good cameo.

[Philomath]

Okay. Sorry, this is going to be long. I really enjoyed this book. I do agree a little with what some of you said along with Chaos in his video about it not being perfect. Thinking more about it, I think it has to do with this. You don’t technically need to have read Era 1 to understand the story of Era 2. Sure you miss some references and don’t get the cool cameos like Marsh and Ten Soon. But it is not absolutely essential. Where you definitely need to read Era 2 I think before Era 3. This is doing some heavy set up for Era 3 which isn’t bad, but just makes Era 2 feel a little too open ended and incomplete. Like how in the world do we get Wax as a Mistborn (even if not a strong one) and not actually get to see him be one?! It is something I want so badly now. And Marasi is going to be the best rusting governor Elendel and the Basin have ever seen and we won’t get to see that either. Or how things go with her and Allik. I’m sure we’ll hear things about it come Era 3, but I want those stories for real too. Not just as mentions. Overall though I really loved this book. I read the physical copy super fast and I am already planning on listening to the audiobook soon. Something this book did well for me was make me want to reread all Sanderson stuff since there were so many crossovers. Instead of being too much for me, it just makes me really excited. I think for the rest of my reactions I am going to break them out by character.

Wax: Again, Mistborn and we hardly see it?! Dang it. Also, I love that he and Steris have kids. This was a really big deal to me. I loved his interactions with Steris and Max and you could really tell just how much he cherished them. So wonderful to see. I love how he learned to become a whole person. He didn’t need to be pieces for different situations. He could be them all and I think that allowed him to be stronger. 

Wayne: Wow. What a way to go. His whole arc was beautiful. I loved his growth and learning. Loved seeing his more controlled use of his bendalloy. Love the good he kept doing unintentionally by trying not to be a millionaire. This really was a fantastic conclusion for his character. 

Steris: She’s still one of the best. Seeing more from her POV was great even if it was small. As a parent of a child who is mildly on the autism spectrum, I loved seeing her neurodivergence shown as something that was always a strength. And seeing her love and accept herself and being loved by others just as she is. She didn’t need to change and she always was more valuable than 7/100.

Marasi: I love how she aligned in some ways with the Ghostbloods, but differed in others. She is a character who knows herself well and knows where she is best suited. I love that she is curious and wants to understand the greater cosmere, but won’t do it in ways that compromise her values. But she doesn’t shrink herself as a character by not joining the Ghostbloods. It isn’t settling for her. She is still ambitious and I think she will do amazing things. 

Sazed/Harmony: Ooh, this one hurts. I am very scared for him. Sazed is one of my favorite characters in all of Brandon’s works. I thought his conclusion in Era 1 of seeing Ruin and Preservation as 2 important and needed pieces together was really beautiful. So I hate seeing him struggle so much now. I really don’t want to see him become a villain or die! One bit of comfort I have 

SA5 reading from Dragonsteel 2022

Spoiler

To paraphrase: Hoid tells Kaladin a quote and says he learned it from one of the greatest men he has learned from then namedrops Sazed. We also know from their letters that they are willing to work together and learn, so I hope Hoid can help Sazed figure this out.

Also, weird things are happening with Kelsier. I’m not entirely convinced he is completely in the physical realm yet. I’m going to have to reread his parts more. And since I have already declared my love for Sazed, I will admit that while I love Kelsier as a character, I don’t love him as a person and would rather he be a villain than Sazed. 

Anyway, if you made it through my novel, thanks, and I cannot wait until Era 3. And also the Elantris sequels since it seems more apparent now why we need those around the same time. 

[Edema Rue]

Sorry to interrupt all your fancy theorizing, it really is great, but my family is judging me for crying and I just need to…

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

I also want to mention how awesome the detail is! These little details make it all come together. For example, the way Moonlight cursed by saying “Nights!” Immediately told us where she was from, and when *sniff sniff* Wayne was changing his accent to be Terris at the end and said “my dear friend” and “I think”. I just had to point out the genius of all the little things that really make it come together and applaud Brandon’s genius. Thank you for your time. 

[Proletariat]

Also random thought ... Marsh has been using the atium alloy from era 1 to extend his lifespan, but Sazed mentions in TLM that atium was found in the explosion produced by splitting the ettmetal which will save Marsh. Does this mean the ettmetal explosion produced an alloy? Or that the era 1 atium actually was pure atium? Did I miss something while reading?

[StanLemon]

2 hours ago, Proletariat said:

Also random thought ... Marsh has been using the atium alloy from era 1 to extend his lifespan, but Sazed mentions in TLM that atium was found in the explosion produced by splitting the ettmetal which will save Marsh. Does this mean the ettmetal explosion produced an alloy? Or that the era 1 atium actually was pure atium? Did I miss something while reading?

The way I see it these are the likely possibilities

• Brandon decided not to retcon Atium
• Sazed is having the Kandra alloy the Atium dust with Electrum to produce the alloy
• Or that Atium's Feruchemical effect remains constant whether it is pure or an alloy

[JPGU]

On 18/11/2022 at 5:30 PM, Philomath said:

SA5 reading from Dragonsteel 2022

  Reveal hidden contents

To paraphrase: Hoid tells Kaladin a quote and says he learned it from one of the greatest men he has learned from then namedrops Sazed. We also know from their letters that they are willing to work together and learn, so I hope Hoid can help Sazed figure this out.

 

@Philomath were can i see that reading of SA5?

[Philomath]

43 minutes ago, JPGU said:

@Philomath were can i see that reading of SA5?

Hopefully it will either go up on Brandon’s YouTube channel or the Arcanum. He read it at the Spoiler Q&A at the convention on 11/14. I’m not sure if that one was recorded. It’s the first time I’ve been to a reading so maybe someone who’s more familiar with how those work will be able to answer. 

[Kasimir]

Re-read TLM once more just because. This was playing in my head during Wayne's Big Damn Hero moment, and the Epilogue:

Spoiler

 

 

[TheoreticalMagic]

On 11/18/2022 at 1:30 PM, Philomath said:

Also, weird things are happening with Kelsier. I’m not entirely convinced he is completely in the physical realm yet. I’m going to have to reread his parts more. And since I have already declared my love for Sazed, I will admit that while I love Kelsier as a character, I don’t love him as a person and would rather he be a villain than Sazed. 

Brandon's long-said that it is theoretically possible - though difficult - to split a Shard that's made up of two combined Shards like Harmony....but if you did, you likely wouldn't get the same two Shards you started with. What I'm wondering is if this is where the Harmony/Discord plot is going. Really, those seem like two opposing intents that are a different kind of yin/yang than Ruin and Preservation were, because both Harmony and Discord combine elements of both Ruin and Preservation, just in different ratios/different ways....that nevertheless results in two opposing Intents that Sazed is struggling to hold and reconcile himself. With this leading largely to him being ineffective as Harmony, and in danger of becoming Discord despite his best efforts and intentions....but still only ever one of these expressing itself at a time, with the other's Intent being temporarily repressed, and thus likely to engender a constant, never-ending cycle of back and forth where Sazed flip-flops between one or the other every few centuries. 

So I'm curious if an upcoming conflict between Kelsier and Sazed might lead to Kelsier either intentionally or accidentally somehow Shattering the Shard Sazed holds by himself....into Harmony and Discord as two separate Shards that can then be held by two people....Harmony by Sazed, but now able to be effective without the constant need to repress Discord or let enough of it leak into his actions that he's hindered from truly furthering harmonious Intent.....and Discord by Kelsier, which he is FAR more suited to than Sazed is. 

In theory, combining Ruin and Preservation into a single Shard and then splitting that Shard into two Shards that are BOTH a combination of Ruin and Preservation....could feasibly produce Shards that are less likely to ever drive their Vessels to the state of extremes that both Ati and Leras succumbed to in their own ways, because these resulting new Shards would be more nuanced, a blend of two Intents, even as singular Shards.

Sazed, although always a good person, was never above being fallible as a mortal or now as a god, and holding a Shard that's truly Harmony but still with a degree of Ruin mixed in it....although not 50/50, maybe like....60 Preservation/40 Ruin...he'd be a lot more able to act in pursuit of his own best Intentions...while still having enough Ruin in him that he's never going to be in danger of seeking full preservation to such a degree that there's a threat of stagnation...as would have been possible when Leras held Preservation, had Ruin not been around to act as a counterweight to his Intent and actions.

Meanwhile Kelsier, while a lot more shades of gray and capable of ruthlessness than Sazed, has always had positive qualities as well, and actively seeks to channel his worst qualities in pursuit of being a necessary evil still acting towards noble goals. He genuinely is invested in the protection and survival of his people, the issue has always just been the things he's willing to do in pursuit of that...because Kelsier, unlike Sazed who is inclined to use his godly power to make life better for mortals, at the possible risk of making them TOO comfortable and incapable of furthering themselves without divine aid (which in and of itself is still a kind of stagnation)....well Kelsier does believe that a degree of conflict is a good and necessary thing for the ongoing progress of humanity....just like a less than noble person like himself is necessary to act on behalf of good and noble people who aren't able to do certain things even in the name of their own survival. 

And if he held a Shard of Discord, that again wasn't purely a blend of Ruin and Preservation in total balance, but instead was still a split of those two Intents, just to a different, slightly imbalanced ratio, like 60 Ruin/40 Preservation....he'd be a lot better suited - and more capable and willing - to actively sow Discord not in the name of Ruining things or lives, but purely to push humanity to achieve things and grow rather than become overly comfortable and complacent...aka stagnant. And unlike when Ati held Ruin, Kelsier would hold a Shard that still had enough Preservation in it, akin to his own innate drive to protect people via his discordant actions....as well as an initial self-awareness and nature that's a better fit for a Shard of Discord than Ati ever was for Ruin....that he would theoretically not be at the same risk of being overtaken by malicious Intent more born of the Shard he holds than of his own choices and actions.

[Yomisma]

So many of... ALL %)

If in Cosmere chronology Era2 going after Stormlight 5, did Hoid present himself to Sazed/Harmony when he saved Wax at the end?