Chaos

Lost Metal Full Book Reactions (Cosmere Edition)

102 posts in this topic

3 hours ago, Proletariat said:

Also wondering if Brandon is setting up another Shai novella?

I think that is a strong possibility for the future. I think she already is or will be one of Hoid's apprentices and thus, might get a novella or some

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14 minutes ago, Eternal Khol said:

I think that is a strong possibility for the future. I think she already is or will be one of Hoid's apprentices and thus, might get a novella or some

I don't think that she'd be Hoid's apprentice. Sanderson said that of his 3 apprentices we know the one in Secret Project 4 best, and we don't know them as well as her. 

Not to mention that she is already quite cosmere-aware, is somewhat antagonistic towards Hoid and works for somebody ditto.

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6 hours ago, Isilel said:

At the moment, SoScads have massive technological superiority, actual military experience _and_ the Bands.

 

I think those advantages are less than they seem.

First, the bands - if it is true that they've been drained, then they're not really much value in a fight, then they're just sixteen intertwined metal strips. We don't know who drained them and why, but if they really are drained they're only an artifact and not a weapon.

Technological superiority - I think the only thing the southerners really have that the northerners don't is the airships. Northerners have more advanced metallurgy, electricity, they've got warships and artillery. And with the work the Set has been doing on rockets - well, they couldn't make a rocket big enough to deliver a bomb to elendel, but if their rockets are big enough to deliver a small explosive up into the sky, well, then they can make effective enough anti-air defenses to neutralize airships.

Once the Basin builds a few anti-air installations, the technological situation is at a stalemate - southern airships can't easily invade well-defended Northern artillery and AA fortifications, but nor can northerners get an army to the south because without airships of their own they can't make or defend supply lines.

So I think the technological situation is actually very well set up for a cold war, which would be a fine setup for a future book.

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“I’d try to create an air of mystique around it,” Marasi said. “I wouldn’t show it off. I’d let the other fifteen become common by comparison—and the value of mine would increase as people shared the story. There is one more. One no one has seen.”

Excerpt From
The Lost Metal
Brandon Sanderson
https://books.apple.com/us/book/the-lost-metal/id1598914426
This material may be protected by copyright.
 

if that’s not foreshadowing for the last unknown final shard being the last big bad I don’t know what is

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Okay random incomplete list of thoughts:

  1.  Wayne... I cry. I hope he will return in in-world stories. 
  2. So many answers and so many new questions. Now I have to reread all the WW books again. The pre-read isn't enough. Of course 1st the second read of LM then the all four post new book marathon reread.
  3. Wonder what Wayne is having his people steal from Wax. ;)
  4. Does it feel to anyone else that even though this is supposedly the end of era 2, there is another era 2 book needed? The "how Roshar became United" story has got to be novella worthy. Right? Right? Also Wax's new powers not fully explained or explored. 
  5. Who drained the bands?  Why? When? Top suspects: Kelsier/Spook/Nightblood/Discord. Or where they just keyed to a person?
  6. Why are the off-world Ghostbloods so different?
  7. Wayne was so loved and worthy of love and didn't know it. 
  8. AaaaahAether!!! So awesome!!!
  9. Steris's experience and skill in disaster preparedness could make her uniquely valuable in the Cosmere. Liked her more every book.
  10. Anyone else want an escape room of cool "find the metalborn trick to open this lock" things? Like "The Room" series if anyone remembers that.
  11. Wax and Wayne. We should have known from the beginning who would live beyond the last era 2 book and who wouldn't.
  12. The stamps!! OMG! I just... I just love all the crossover stuff. Even though I think perHAPS if I were not Cosmere aware I might be confused. I truly don't know. At some point Brandon may need to hire virgin readers. 
  13. This book makes the previous three into part of a masterpiece. Fight me.

I would have married Wayne in a heartbeat but now I can't. So sad. Fiction Shmiction. Wayne is my soulmate.

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6 minutes ago, Storyspren said:

The stamps!! OMG! I just... I just love all the crossover stuff. Even though I think perHAPS if I were not Cosmere aware I might be confused. I truly don't know. At some point Brandon may need to hire virgin readers. 

Based on what someone else has said, apparently at this point the assumption is that the Cosmere is big enough, and we're far enough from the starting novels, that Brandon has stopped hiding the connections and just made them an open thing, same as how RoW went a lot further into it.

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46 minutes ago, kenod said:

Based on what someone else has said, apparently at this point the assumption is that the Cosmere is big enough, and we're far enough from the starting novels, that Brandon has stopped hiding the connections and just made them an open thing, same as how RoW went a lot further into it.

I am thinking of posterity. 100 years from now this forum won't exist and someone might pick up Alloy of Law out of Cosmere reading order, arrive at Lost Metal and be confused. 

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6 minutes ago, Storyspren said:

I am thinking of posterity. 100 years from now this forum won't exist and someone might pick up Alloy of Law out of Cosmere reading order, arrive at Lost Metal and be confused. 

Eh, maybe, but at some point all the stories do need to come together anyway for the space age trilogy, and it is starting to get around a good time for that, since the current series are exploring realmatic mechanics more and more.

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Did we get Skybreakers near the end there [or a sky breaker with his squires]. The Ghostblood group sent to help Steris specifically asks "Are you sure this is legal?" before they fly off to go sink the boats. Steris sees a tattoo, so we have 100% confirmation that these people in particular were Ghostbloods (plus the other confirmations). 

Steris then thinks "Hmm, all the official Allomancers are off helping elsewhere. These must be other ones I guess?". But to me, I think we just saw Skybreakers using their powers off world. A Skybreaker would look a lot like a coinshot to the uniformed, and the "is this legal" thing is quite the hint. 

Edited by teknopathetic
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38 minutes ago, teknopathetic said:

Did we get Skybreakers near the end there? The Ghostblood group sent to help Steris specifically asks "Are you sure this is legal?" before they fly off to go sink the boats. Steris sees a tattoo, so we have 100% confirmation that these people in particular were Ghostbloods (plus the other confirmations). 

Steris then thinks "Hmm, all the official Allomancers are off helping elsewhere. These must be other ones I guess?". But to me, I think we just saw Skybreakers using their powers off world. A Skybreaker would look a lot like a coinshot to the uniformed, and the "is this legal" thing is quite the hint. 

Issue is that Surgebinders have some pretty unique tells, and while they have pseudo-flight in common with coinshots, the way they'd actually destroy the boats would likely be rather different.

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This book was a wild ride.  I will say going in I'd never thought I'd be be siding with Kelsier over Sazed, but damn it, I'm siding with Kelsier over Sazed.

Edited by Nesh
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Universal stamps using invested ink makes Soulstamping an actually useful art off world! It’s my favourite, so I am so excited Shainhas found ways to use them. Also, as she is Kelier’s best agent, she probably has a lot of other things in hand as well. 

i wonder if we get a new novella with her dealing with her Elantris persona or the consequences of that action? The Soulstamper’s Soul? 

 

Edited by teknopathetic
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Kind of a let down honestly.  It felt more like another episode in a running serial than a sweeping epic conclusion (maybe past Sanderson avalanches have spoiled me).  A lot of questions that were previously teased were just kind of left hanging.  Bloody Tam and the unseen hands that move us were the original setup for this whole series, but that whole question just gets brushed aside by a Harmony handwritten note at the end?  The men of gold and red were just Autonomy's soldiers with gold skin and red eyes planning to conduct a standard invasion?  It feels a bit on the nose.  What made Miles and Paalm go crazy and become Autonomy's servants?  The Survivor's return has been teased for so long and the conclusion of Bands of Mourning ("Survive!") had me so hyped up for the crazy shenanigans and bizarre schemes Kelsier must have been working on, yet here he's just a guy.  He makes a cameo for a couple pages, contributes almost nothing to the plot or future theories, and then is gone.  Who made the Bands of Mourning?  Why were they in an Indiana Jones temple?  What has Kel been up to post saving the South from freezing outside of organizing a bunch of intergalactic nerds who roleplay being secret agents?  Marsh is tired and almost dying, the kandra barely exist, Harmony just pipes in to remind us how useless he is.  Spook???  It all has a weirdly "Tune in next week!" vibe, when I feel a proper conclusion should be clearing the deck and firmly resolving a lot of these promised mysteries (sure there are always more secrets, but I expected more answers than this!).

Obviously there are some very good things in this book.  Wayne is great, and Wax is essentially a supporting role to him in this book, which is a fun switcheroo.  Harmony's condition and his blatant lying to Kelsier's face about Lerasium makes him a much more interesting/nefarious character moving forward (What else was he lying about?  Was he lying to Kel about having things under control, or was he lying to Wax/Wayne about being powerless and was secretly manipulating them into being exactly where they needed to be to save the world as willing sacrifices?).  Steris is wonderful and deserved more screen time.  Marasi though seems to exist to carry a B Plot and justify cramming a lot of broader cosmere references that don't really contribute much to the plot.  I find Autonomy herself quite interesting in theory, with her Nietzschean "will to power" philosophy and respect for those who survive in impossible circumstances.  She's a perfect foil to Harmony's over-protection of humanity, and you can sense that Sazed is becoming much more open to her "stop spoiling the children" view of Godhood.

The broader cosmere stuff felt kind of underwhelming to me though.  This might be a specific taste critique, but I felt a lot of the broader cosmere references/cameos existed purely for the reader to go "I know what that is!" rather than organically advance the existing (ideally self-contained) story.  It's just my opinion, but I think Brandon needs to stop trying to straddle the fence on this.  Either make the stories self contained with an occasional wink at the more enlightened audience, or expect the reader to have done their homework and have basic cosmere understanding.  Nightblood in SA was a perfect example of how to do this well in my opinion.  An unaware reader won't understand all the background about Nightblood, but doesn't need to.  It's a powerful magic sword, it serves an important function in the plot, the reader can choose to read Warbreaker if they want more background info, but they don't need to because the necessary basics are clearly given to them within the existing story.  In tLM though, you have a lot of elements that seemingly exist purely for that recognition dopamine hit.  Shai in particular feels egregious because she previously starred in a perfectly self-contained piece of fiction (still my personal favorite of everything Brandon has written) and now is being used for cameo noticing.

Overall, this particular book felt like the weakest to me in the Wax&Wayne series.  Which is surprising, because generally I've found conclusions are what Brandon does best, but this particular series conclusion felt like a miss.  I really really hope he gets the magic back for SA5.

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23 hours ago, Proletariat said:

Thinking about it also seems like Wax is going to be the most powerful Allomancer since the Lord Ruler. I forgot that lerasium also enhances pre-existing allomancy, so between the lerasium mistorn + hemalurgy duralumin, the double steel pushes, and being able to compound weight he's going to really test the limits on what steel pushing can do. We'll probably get lots of cool broadsheets in the next book about his experiments on manipulating the axi that Kelsier referenced from the metal vision. 

Also wondering if Brandon is setting up another Shai novella? Because this seems like an odd dangling plotline with a character whose had her own novella, and been a significant character in another to then pop up again and be like 'got better! no worries my dudes.' Won't she eventually go Shaod if she doesn't give up the soulstamp? Or will she last as an Elantrian until era 3 and be one of the immortals just chilling out in the background cast of Scadrial like Marsh?

And are these self aware safes that the Ghostbloods have based on Awakening or a fabrial? Because there must be some really screwed up stuff happening in Nalthis if Yesteel is producing Artificial Intelligence to order and making thousands of drabs. Like is he just creating a region of drabs out of Huth and Kuth? And are these golden armies that Autonomy has appropriated a mass of his new and improved Lifeless that she's influencing like she does the hemalurgists?

Nalthis, where just one little box can be a crime against humanity 

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5 hours ago, Subvisual Haze said:

The broader cosmere stuff felt kind of underwhelming to me though.  This might be a specific taste critique, but I felt a lot of the broader cosmere references/cameos existed purely for the reader to go "I know what that is!" rather than organically advance the existing (ideally self-contained) story.  It's just my opinion, but I think Brandon needs to stop trying to straddle the fence on this.  Either make the stories self contained with an occasional wink at the more enlightened audience, or expect the reader to have done their homework and have basic cosmere understanding.  Nightblood in SA was a perfect example of how to do this well in my opinion.  An unaware reader won't understand all the background about Nightblood, but doesn't need to.  It's a powerful magic sword, it serves an important function in the plot, the reader can choose to read Warbreaker if they want more background info, but they don't need to because the necessary basics are clearly given to them within the existing story.  In tLM though, you have a lot of elements that seemingly exist purely for that recognition dopamine hit.  Shai in particular feels egregious because she previously starred in a perfectly self-contained piece of fiction (still my personal favorite of everything Brandon has written) and now is being used for cameo noticing.

I think someone quoted a WoB a page ago about Brandon saying that this is the book where he basically decided to go full into the open for the Cosmere stuff.

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Quick question - does anybody know if this is the first mention we've heard of a planet called Mythos? Kelsier namedropped it as one of the places he was saying to Sazed they could potentially seek allies, if they had reliable means of transportation between worlds. It stood out to me not just because it was the only unfamiliar place referenced, but the way he phrased it "maybe even Mythos"....that had me particularly curious about it. Has me wondering if Kelsier considers it a less viable option than the others because of political/Shard-based friction or conflict with the people or powers of that world, or if maybe its a particularly hard to reach or almost legendary/fabled world.

Especially considering that as the leader of the Ghostbloods, he'd obviously have to know TwinSoul's world is currently overrun or enslaved by dark aethers, so not exactly an easy source of allies....and given the difficulties in traversing to and from Sel via Shadesmar, or Roshar or the other systems that are difficult to get in and out of, it also seems less likely that the 'maybe even Mythos' qualifier is simply because Mythos is a hard to reach or inaccessible planet. Plus the name itself obviously carries implications of a particularly mythic or fabled place - or at least it feels like that's the sense readers are supposed to get from that particular name. So, just has me curious.

I almost wonder if Mythos could be a post-Shattering name for Yolen. If there were one planet that was particularly regarded as legendary, it'd be the place the Shards originated....

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6 hours ago, TheoreticalMagic said:

Quick question - does anybody know if this is the first mention we've heard of a planet called Mythos?

I do not think we knew about this one or the other one mentioned Bjendal. 

 

I honestly have mixed feelings about this book. There was a lot I liked. As heartbreaking as it was Wayne's Arc was done extremely well. I really liked the outcome of the rest of the main characters as well. I liked getting to see more Kel on screen. While I liked all the Cosmere tidbits some did come across as info dumps instead of organically developing and if I am being completely honest felt a little distracting in this book to the main story. I also feel like as mentioned above the era just feels unfinished. I get that this is supposed to really be a setup for era 3 but I think I would have liked a little more time spent wrapping up some loose ends. Especially since more loose ends were added in this book specifically to the W&W books. So is Wax a full Mistborn? We assume so but do not really see it on screen. What the heck happened to the BoM and who made them? I guess this last point has the opportunity to be resolved in era 3. I felt like the beginning of the book did a good job to ramp up the tension between the Basin and South then just let this kind of die on the vine. 

Ignoring the fact it felt distracting to me I did like seeing Aethers it really got e hyped for SP1. TES is one of my favorite Brandon stories and seeing the new and improved Forgery was really fun. I kind of assumed this was Shai her codename was a pretty good clue then when she turns in to an Elantrian the name drop makes it pretty obvious but honestly she did not seem like the same character. I guess you can dismiss this with the fact she has obviously had a lot of time to become a new person. I loved her thoughts when she sees Hoid. 

 

 

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Based on the language feel, Bjendal is probably an India based aether world or post-exodus world. 

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I've seen people mention that Moonlight must be Shai and ... I just don't see it/feel it

I know worldhoppers can age slower and all, but... this person really didn't feel at all like Shai to me. Plus she used color references as an analogy like a Nathian. 

Dunno. The only thing that says Shai is 1) Soulstamps 2) woman 3) Shais' the only one we know, but there is an entire culture of Maipon forgers who have been working at improving Soul Stamps for like 1500 years between Emperor's Soul and the Lost Metal. Not every character has to be a crossover character just because they have similar magics. I'd be disappointed if Moonlight were Shai honestly.

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4 hours ago, StormingTexan said:

I honestly have mixed feelings about this book. There was a lot I liked. As heartbreaking as it was Wayne's Arc was done extremely well. I really liked the outcome of the rest of the main characters as well. I liked getting to see more Kel on screen. While I liked all the Cosmere tidbits some did come across as info dumps instead of organically developing and if I am being completely honest felt a little distracting in this book to the main story. I also feel like as mentioned above the era just feels unfinished. I get that this is supposed to really be a setup for era 3 but I think I would have liked a little more time spent wrapping up some loose ends. Especially since more loose ends were added in this book specifically to the W&W books. So is Wax a full Mistborn? We assume so but do not really see it on screen. What the heck happened to the BoM and who made them? I guess this last point has the opportunity to be resolved in era 3. I felt like the beginning of the book did a good job to ramp up the tension between the Basin and South then just let this kind of die on the vine. 

Ignoring the fact it felt distracting to me I did like seeing Aethers it really got e hyped for SP1. TES is one of my favorite Brandon stories and seeing the new and improved Forgery was really fun. I kind of assumed this was Shai her codename was a pretty good clue then when she turns in to an Elantrian the name drop makes it pretty obvious but honestly she did not seem like the same character. I guess you can dismiss this with the fact she has obviously had a lot of time to become a new person. I loved her thoughts when she sees Hoid. 

I will give this book more re-reads before making any firm statements, but overall, your first impressions matched mine very closely.

At first I was excited to see more Cosmere exposition and worldhoppers, but by the time the Skybreaker hint was dropped on Steris in Elendel, I was in full rebellion mode of "oh come on already".

After re-reading the passage and thinking about it more I am coming around to the conclusion that yeah, I think they ARE supposed to be Skybreakers... But that just feeds in to the reason I had the "oh come on already" reaction, which is that first and foremost, I had wanted this book to wrap up an Era 2 story arc, not just plug a gap in the Cosmere timeline and drop hints about what "happened" in the in-world past on Roshar that is yet to be shown in SA5 (as of the writing).

I mean, I'm all for that, but please hit the primary target, first!

Because meanwhile, just in the Mistborn/Scadrial setting, TLM actually raised as many or more Big Questions than it closed/answered!

What were Wax's blue flashes? Is he Mistborn, and if he is, how can he possibly be unaware of that after having held the Bands?

Which are/aren't drained? No way that was really TenSoon in that room, right?

Partially Physical Kelsier isn't even a Mistborn much less a Fullborn, so... Who made them or how? And if he was on an airship "twelve hours away" on that seon chat, had he just been to the Southern Continent?

Holy crap, ... is Kelsier inhabiting a kandra and was HE the kandra claiming to be TenSoon who palmed/swapped the Bands for a dead fake?

Weren't we going to learn about the Excisors -- or was that lab experiment with a non-fatal "excision" of Preservation's extra Investiture on a Scadrian supposed to be a Big Reveal?

Edited by robardin
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4 minutes ago, robardin said:

I will give this book more re-reads before making any firm statements, but overall, your first impressions matched mine very closely.

I do agree with this. I need to re-read it. I think I was in such a hurry to find out what happens at the end I did not take the time to enjoy the story. I actually did not like tWoK the first time I read it but appreciate it much more after re-reads. 

 

8 minutes ago, robardin said:

What were Wax's blue flashes? I

I mentioned in another thread but I think he was subconsciously burning iron similar to how Vin burned pewter. He could have gotten iron from drinking water or it was mixed in with what he inhaled after the explosion. I think he may be a very weak Mistborn. I do agree you would think he would recognize using another metal after using the BoM but there are a few other instances he seems to be burning metals like when he could see through the mist and possibly pewter after the explosion. It is weird though. 

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53 minutes ago, Green Hoodie Mistborn said:

I've seen people mention that Moonlight must be Shai and ... I just don't see it/feel it

I know worldhoppers can age slower and all, but... this person really didn't feel at all like Shai to me. Plus she used color references as an analogy like a Nathian. 

Dunno. The only thing that says Shai is 1) Soulstamps 2) woman 3) Shais' the only one we know, but there is an entire culture of Maipon forgers who have been working at improving Soul Stamps for like 1500 years between Emperor's Soul and the Lost Metal. Not every character has to be a crossover character just because they have similar magics. I'd be disappointed if Moonlight were Shai honestly.

She certainly could be somebody else, but given that she looks like Shai, acts at least somewhat like Shai, has a similar name to Shai (after transforming), and has the exact same skillset as Shai, it would be kinda weird from a meta perspective if she wasn't Shai.

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Quote

What were Wax's blue flashes? Is he Mistborn, and if he is, how can he possibly be unaware of that after having held the Bands?

I got the vibe that this was some symptom of Wax becoming a steel savant

edit: quote is from @robardin

Edited by nova
I did not properly quote
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1 hour ago, TheTuninator said:

She certainly could be somebody else, but given that she looks like Shai, acts at least somewhat like Shai, has a similar name to Shai (after transforming), and has the exact same skillset as Shai, it would be kinda weird from a meta perspective if she wasn't Shai.

:shrug:

I mean she also calls the Shaod "Shay-ode" post transformation and Tia as "Tye-A", though that could be due to Marisai' hearing vs what is being said specifically. 

Maybe calling herself "Shay-I" is Sanderson's way of saying this is Shai.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love Shai and Emperor's Soul, it's one of my favorite stories. I just don't want this to be Shai is all, though the Coppermind seems to have decided that it is 100% her since Moonlight's transformation is referenced under the Shai page's Essences Mark's entry section now :lol: 

The Cosmere is a big place, so it's just a bit disappointing to not expand our cast of characters with a new Forger to me is all. 

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3 hours ago, StormingTexan said:

I think there's enough clues presented in the combat scenes that Wax became a mistborn to some level. I think he doing it he was doing so instinctively like Vin early TFE and we know the sometimes powers aren't accessible unless someone has awareness like when they couldn't use the bands at first. In his first fight against his doppleganger he somehow "snaps" the vial of metal into his hand when falling could only happen if he pulled on the metals. The fact that Harmony gave him "special" vials that contained all the metals was also a hint as he didn't start showing signs until he was using these. In his fight against Waynes dopple he takes some hard shots by the dueling cane but his bone didn't break. Hinting that he was burning pewter as wayne took considerable more damage from similar blows. Finally, I think Sanderson was hinting that Wax was manipulating steel and iron with a level of skill similar to Keliser in his fight against the Obligator in TFE. The way he was manipulating pieces of metal against the soldiers seemed impossible by only pushing. 

 

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