Lost Metal Chapters 16-18 Reactions

[Pagerunner]

1 hour ago, offer said:

I don`t think it is related to anti-investiture.

Anti investiture wuold have exploded when touching the harmonium. The ttrellium caused the explosion only when the harmonium was "almost separted".

I think we need to be a little more specific than anti-Investiture. Stormlight spoilers:

Spoiler

We saw two types of anti-Investiture in the Stormlight Archive: anti-Voidlight and anti-Stormlight. Both types, notably, did not react violently with raysium. They only reacted violently with the exact type of Investiture: Voidlight with anti-Voidlight exploded. Anti-Stormlight killed spren, but Stormlight is a part of their biology, so to speak, so it was more like poison to them than a violent destructive reaction.

If trellium is anti-Investiture, we would need to specify which specific form of Investiture it is the anti-version of. I don't think it's anti-harmonium; but when the harmonium was essentially split into lerasium and atium, then we got the destructive reaction. I'm wondering if trellium is anti-atium, and if it came from Harmony trying to get rid of the unbalanced bit of Ruin in him (that existed because Preservation snuck in extra of himself to humanity). It's described as silvery, like atium. So we only get the annihilation effect when anti-atium meets true atium; the rest of the time, you just get the "it feels wrong" sensation that repulses Harmony's Investiture. (VenDell says it opposes Investiture, but the only Investiture he has to compare it against is Harmony's; I suspect it wouldn't repulse offworld Investiture.)

 

[+robardin]

1 minute ago, Bzhydack said:

This trophy would be precisely Wayne Terrisborn Hat!

So, I wonder, is Wayne already richer than Wax? Or will be soon?

Ok, I still hope for cyclotrons and nuclear reactors, in trials for dividing Harmonium, but this is still very exciting!

I'm pretty sure he is. As of AoL, Wax's House of Ladrian was basically on the brink of bankruptcy, despite having "many forgeworkers and seamstresses", with Edwarn having siphoned off nearly all the money to fund the Set's hidden machinations with the Vanishers ("it was all INSURANCE FRAUD!"... Well, that, and some more cosmere-related plots).

And SoS and BoM all take place relatively soon after, like one or two years for both, so most of Wax's money - and "house finances" - were directly or built on leveraging Steris' money from her father. That, plus the reward money for foiling the Vanishers, which Wayne reflects had been "paid out mostly in aluminum recovered from Miles and his gang" in SoS, which was the seed money he gave to Sophie Tarcsel, and got his financial snowball rolling.

So, yes. If Wax and Wayne shared equally in the Vanishers' reward, and Wax was somewhat richer than Wayne in Sos, ... it would seem that ten years later, in TLM, it's very, very likely that Wayne is the richesrt man in the Basin! Or at least, one of them!

As for starting a "noseball" league: I wonder what it is like? It's got a goalie, and at least two "long runners", both of which positions could be spiced up by specifically allowing Metalborn as an innovation, which I guess means traditionally "noseball" has disallowed Metalborn powers?

[StormingTexan]

30 minutes ago, robardin said:

As for starting a "noseball" league: I wonder what it is like? It's got a goalie, and at least two "long runners", both of which positions could be spiced up by specifically allowing Metalborn as an innovation, which I guess means traditionally "noseball" has disallowed Metalborn powers?

I am envisioning something like lacrosse because it has a goal and Wayne mentioned them beating each other up. 

[Ashbringer]

1 hour ago, Pagerunner said:

I think we need to be a little more specific than anti-Investiture. Stormlight spoilers:

  Reveal hidden contents

We saw two types of anti-Investiture in the Stormlight Archive: anti-Voidlight and anti-Stormlight. Both types, notably, did not react violently with raysium. They only reacted violently with the exact type of Investiture: Voidlight with anti-Voidlight exploded. Anti-Stormlight killed spren, but Stormlight is a part of their biology, so to speak, so it was more like poison to them than a violent destructive reaction.

If trellium is anti-Investiture, we would need to specify which specific form of Investiture it is the anti-version of. I don't think it's anti-harmonium; but when the harmonium was essentially split into lerasium and atium, then we got the destructive reaction. I'm wondering if trellium is anti-atium, and if it came from Harmony trying to get rid of the unbalanced bit of Ruin in him (that existed because Preservation snuck in extra of himself to humanity). It's described as silvery, like atium. So we only get the annihilation effect when anti-atium meets true atium; the rest of the time, you just get the "it feels wrong" sensation that repulses Harmony's Investiture. (VenDell says it opposes Investiture, but the only Investiture he has to compare it against is Harmony's; I suspect it wouldn't repulse offworld Investiture.)

 

Spoiler

The other issue with it being anti-Investiture is how it seems used in conjunction with "normal" Investiture. Paalm used trellium for Hemalurgic spikes containing Allomantic and Feruchemical abilities, and we know she got those "normally", i.e. from killing Metalborn. I would think using anti-atium as a vector of Ruin's magic system would not go well for Paalm. I do think anti-atium is more likely than anti-lerasium or anti-harmonium though - would be easier to access, and would explain the Chekovium and the unbalance in Harmony.

It's also possible that Hemalurgy is a more fundamental magic than just of Ruin, like how the Aviar mimic some Allomantic abilities, and Trell is facilitating the spikes instead; or Feruchemy is enough of Harmony and not Ruin that trellium doesn't react to it. 

If trellium isn't that, I wonder if it could be made as a weapon against Shardblades regardless, splitting tanavastium and korellium(?) from the Shardblade alloy.

[+robardin]

35 minutes ago, StormingTexan said:

I am envisioning something like lacrosse because it has a goal and Wayne mentioned them beating each other up. 

That might be the origin of the name "noseball", if the lacrosse stick is considered to end in a large cup or hook that resembles a nose.

And I think it's interesting to note that Wayne said "Metalborn" are allowed at those positions, not a specific kind of Metalborn.

You'd think Steelrunners would be the most in demand in general, but if a Coinshot could fly down the field with a Push, or if the goalie were allowed to Push or Pull on metal in their glove to react faster, or an electrum burning Misting (Oracle) at goalie made it all but impossible even for a Steelrunner to score... Woohoo!

And of course if contact is allowed, a Pewterarm would be very comfortable!

[Requiem17]

1 hour ago, StormingTexan said:

Yep I think when Wax and Steris were trying to find the  missing clips the total was around 20 million. 

Edit: I was wrong on the amount the finances were around 5 million. 

No you're right, the quote is $5 million for that quarter. So as of BoM they probably have about 20 mil in liquid cash moving about per year. 

35 minutes ago, StormingTexan said:

I am envisioning something like lacrosse because it has a goal and Wayne mentioned them beating each other up. 

My brain is also going soccer/lacrosse and elements of Quidditch. I'm also a huge fan of it being ANY Metalborn/medallion wearer in that position, that could get really interesting. I want him to allow one Allomantic Grenade per team when they get less rare... and I want to write a whole rulebook and team plan now...

Back to the Chekovium dust for a sec:

Quote

He sneezed, then smiled at her reassuringly. His mask was nowhere to be seen; it must have blown free in the explosion.

Is this... is this Wax inhaling Atium or Lerasium  or Trellium dust and not realizing. Is it in his body right now?

[Ixthos]

8 minutes ago, robardin said:

That might be the origin of the name "noseball", if the lacrosse stick is considered to end in a large cup or hook that resembles a nose.

And I think it's interesting to note that Wayne said "Metalborn" are allowed at those positions, not a specific kind of Metalborn.

You'd think Steelrunners would be the most in demand in general, but if a Coinshot could fly down the field with a Push, or if the goalie were allowed to Push or Pull on metal in their glove to react faster, or an electrum burning Misting (Oracle) at goalie made it all but impossible even for a Steelrunner to score... Woohoo!

And of course if contact is allowed, a Pewterarm would be very comfortable!

And of course rather than drug checks one would be looking for illegal spikes, both to gain an unfair boost to ones native allomantic or feruchemical power, but also to try to slip an extra power past the ref! Oh, and also because it would imply someone was murdered ...

[CognitiveShadow]

7 minutes ago, Requiem17 said:

Is this... is this Wax inhaling Atium or Lerasium  or Trellium dust and not realizing. Is it in his body right now?

Oh this is a big time catch!!! Seriously this has to be important. I remember thinking something was odd about the sneeze, but that could really be it. The mask was specifically called out to be missing. Our boy wax is about to turn into a mistborn and/or a zombie for Trell 

[+robardin]

1 hour ago, StormingTexan said:

Yep I think when Wax and Steris were trying to find the  missing clips the total was around 20 million. Agree though I bet Steris has increased their wealth in the last 6 years. It sounded like it in the pre-view chapters they live in a swanky penthouse and still own the mansion so probably not doing too shabby. 

Edit: I was wrong on the amount the finances were around 5 million. 

With Wayne owning Wax likeness I can only imagine that their rolls will be reversed in the comic books. Wayne will be Batman and Wax will be Robin. 

Yes, but it's a quarterly ledger, so if that's a typical quarter, they are netting 20 million a year...?!

Unless the ledgers in question were for Accounts Payable, since the only discrepancy we find explained was Wax exulting in connecting a typo of "four clips to tip a dock boy, reimbursed but recorded with a three due to bad handwriting", in which case we don't know what the House as a whole is earning.

Remember, House Ladrian also employs a lot of people, those "forgeworkers and seamstresses" mentioned in Alloy of Law, while Wayne has cleverly moved into the world of investment banking where things like the operational costs for Tarcsel Electric or the upcoming Noseball League of the Basin (NLB) are one level removed.

[+robardin]

13 minutes ago, Requiem17 said:

No you're right, the quote is $5 million for that quarter. So as of BoM they probably have about 20 mil in liquid cash moving about per year. 

My brain is also going soccer/lacrosse and elements of Quidditch. I'm also a huge fan of it being ANY Metalborn/medallion wearer in that position, that could get really interesting. I want him to allow one Allomantic Grenade per team when they get less rare... and I want to write a whole rulebook and team plan now...

Back to the Chekovium dust for a sec:

Is this... is this Wax inhaling Atium or Lerasium  or Trellium dust and not realizing. Is it in his body right now?

Yeah I was wondering that, too. It's black dust, so it's not atium which was always described as slivery; and the bead of lerasium never has its color described in TFE, other than Vin observing that it was "the wrong color" to be atium.

Trellium is never described as black, either, but "silvery with red spots."

I am definitely anticipating Wax burning steel soon, and discovering something new about his experience of burning metals...!

[CognitiveShadow]

4 minutes ago, robardin said:

I am definitely anticipating Wax burning steel soon, and discovering something new about his experience of burning metals...!

And here I was, thinking that these chapters had passed without anything that would bring too much crazy speculation and suspense in my brain… Now I am especially frustrated with daylight savings time for adding a whole hour to my wait time to get the full book!

[king of nowhere]

the wayne chapters are the best wayne chapters so far. and that was already a very high bar to clear.

and, people talking science and being scientific-minded! reacting appropriately to hazards! in a book! that's wonderful. I'm always put off by science in books being garbage. sanderson is a rare exception

2 hours ago, robardin said:

I'm pretty sure he is. As of AoL, Wax's House of Ladrian was basically on the brink of bankruptcy, despite having "many forgeworkers and seamstresses", with Edwarn having siphoned off nearly all the money to fund the Set's hidden machinations with the Vanishers ("it was all INSURANCE FRAUD!"... Well, that, and some more cosmere-related plots).

And SoS and BoM all take place relatively soon after, like one or two years for both, so most of Wax's money - and "house finances" - were directly or built on leveraging Steris' money from her father. That, plus the reward money for foiling the Vanishers, which Wayne reflects had been "paid out mostly in aluminum recovered from Miles and his gang" in SoS, which was the seed money he gave to Sophie Tarcsel, and got his financial snowball rolling.

So, yes. If Wax and Wayne shared equally in the Vanishers' reward, and Wax was somewhat richer than Wayne in Sos, ... it would seem that ten years later, in TLM, it's very, very likely that Wayne is the richesrt man in the Basin! Or at least, one of them!

i doubt that. wax is stated as owing a few % of all the real estate in the city. that's a tremendous amount of wealth.

[JustQuestin2004]

1 hour ago, robardin said:

Yeah I was wondering that, too. It's black dust, so it's not atium which was always described as slivery; and the bead of lerasium never has its color described in TFE, other than Vin observing that it was "the wrong color" to be atium.

During the Splitting experiment, Lerasium was almost seen and was described as 'Whiteish-blue'.

Just splitting hairs over here don't mind me.

[Firesong]

The more we get in these previews, the less and less I find myself able to wait. 

[Subvisual Haze]

Whoops, radioactive fallout

[+Bzhydack]

9 hours ago, robardin said:

Yeah I was wondering that, too. It's black dust, so it's not atium which was always described as slivery; and the bead of lerasium never has its color described in TFE, other than Vin observing that it was "the wrong color" to be atium.

Trellium is never described as black, either, but "silvery with red spots."

I am definitely anticipating Wax burning steel soon, and discovering something new about his experience of burning metals...!

Maybe Wax absorbed mainly Harmonium dust? I dont think we had desceibed it yet, but wasnt harmonium dark in colour? Can someone check?

I dont think we would get Mistborn for now, but why not some feruchemical shenannigans? Anyone for Wax full Feruchemist?

[Isilel]

Whew, I for one, am glad that no legendary metals were obtained so easily. But since WoBs strongly suggest that Trell will continue to be a problem in Era3, something needs to change to make Scadrial less fragile, while retainining foundations of it’s magitech. So, Harmony can’t just stop producing ettmetal, but it needs to become less explosive?

I am somewhat disappointed how the issue with Allriandre was uni-laterally decided by Wayne without her having her say or appearing on page. First he stalked and harassed her for years, now he arranged things in such a way that people are going to think that she is his (ex)mistress. All even without a courtesy of a letter or anything.  

I also thought that Wayne would have invested in something else cool – like air plane invention, expeditions beyond the Roughs, etc. Or, you know, put money towards feeding poor children, though I guess his housing projects fill the charity niche somewhat. Instead – cars and sports? Oh well. How is he hoping to keep his wealth secret with all these cars? He must only very rarely have a chance to drive any of them. I am now also very curious about the unusual provisions of his trust.

I love Steris’s PoV and also that at long last Marasi and her have actual conversations and a relationship. Having re-read the Era 2 books, it is really weird how they have  no meaningful interaction in AoL or SoS, though it begins to improve in BoM.

Constable Garglen is totally an offworlder, namely a 

 

Spoiler

Ghostblood and a Rosharan

 

, yea? It has been mentioned that he had occasionally  been Marasi’s police partner in the past, and he is freakishly tall. His reports  must have got his organization interested in her.

Both Wayne and Wax have ominous vibes around them! Well, we’ll see who, if anybody, bites it.

Concerning VenDell impersonating the Cycle – it should be a bit difficult since Marasi is the only one who heard him speak? And also he needs to somehow imitate the man’s Metallic powers, of which we saw only 2 out of 4 during the fight, IIRC.

Marasi being a woman won't help with the subterfuge either, because so far there have been few women among either the lower-tier Set operatives or the gangs they hired. So they would be particularly memorable/noticeable. And, of course, Telsin knows Marasi's face. Here is to hoping that Wayne creates a good disguise for her.

[+robardin]

13 hours ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

During the Splitting experiment, Lerasium was almost seen and was described as 'Whiteish-blue'.

Just splitting hairs over here don't mind me.

they don’t know that that was “almost lerasium”, as they don’t know what lerasium looks like (nor do we) - only that it seemed to be the “light” side of some kind of “light/dark” separation, and assuming light = Preservation and dark = Ruin, even though historical descriptions of atium are of it being “silvery”.

[Honorless]

So... Wayne is now a business tycoon... and introducing spectator sports to Scadrial... a very interesting sport too, it seems

Aw, Steris! Safety protocols, people! 

Allik is a total househusband supreme!

Investiture to energy conversion! Oh my, there's potential here

Hahaha, yeah, it does seem better to have the money now, lol

sand medallion is an interesting term for pearl, I like it

All hail Wayne, the best accent coach in the Cosmere!

[Dl206]

I think Wayne is becoming a Savant. Mar mentioned earlier that he seemed to be getting way more control over his time bending abilities. And here we see him purchasing a massive amount of bendalium. I bet he's just constantly burning.

[Frustration]

19 hours ago, Ashbringer said:

  Reveal hidden contents

The other issue with it being anti-Investiture is how it seems used in conjunction with "normal" Investiture. Paalm used trellium for Hemalurgic spikes containing Allomantic and Feruchemical abilities, and we know she got those "normally", i.e. from killing Metalborn. I would think using anti-atium as a vector of Ruin's magic system would not go well for Paalm. I do think anti-atium is more likely than anti-lerasium or anti-harmonium though - would be easier to access, and would explain the Chekovium and the unbalance in Harmony.

It's also possible that Hemalurgy is a more fundamental magic than just of Ruin, like how the Aviar mimic some Allomantic abilities, and Trell is facilitating the spikes instead; or Feruchemy is enough of Harmony and not Ruin that trellium doesn't react to it. 

If trellium isn't that, I wonder if it could be made as a weapon against Shardblades regardless, splitting tanavastium and korellium(?) from the Shardblade alloy.

It would likely have some effect, but I don't think you could get a reaction under combat situations.

 

Also I have to say: Cloth masks, for chlorine gas. Steris you're supposed to be smart. That wouldn't do anything, unless you have them soaked in a neutralizing agent, but that's not mentioned.

[Firesong]

44 minutes ago, Frustration said:

It would likely have some effect, but I don't think you could get a reaction under combat situations.

 

Also I have to say: Cloth masks, for chlorine gas. Steris you're supposed to be smart. That wouldn't do anything, unless you have them soaked in a neutralizing agent, but that's not mentioned.

Well, I think that they did have filtration and weren't just like, the store-bought cloth masks we've been wearing for a while, given

Quote

She distributed the cloth masks to everyone, even Allik, since a wooden one wouldn’t filter the air for him.

It says that the cloth masks do have filtration, so I expect they were some early form of gas mask or respirator. 

furthermore

Quote

Then they all returned up the steps and stood outside the mansion to allow the place to ventilate

They let the room ventilate for a while before going in, so the Chlorine gas wouldn't be as concentrated, and would have mostly aired out. They also heard of the Chlorine gas after putting on masks, and after the idea it could be there came up, they decided to let it air out and wait. 

Edited November 8, 2022 by Firesong

[Frustration]

4 minutes ago, Firesong said:

Well, I think that they did have filtration and weren't just like, the store-bought cloth masks we've been wearing for a while, given

It says that the cloth masks do have filtration, so I expect they were some early form of gas mask or respirator. 

That would make some sense, but it doesn't mention a mechanical filter, and cloth is too porous to keep gas out.

6 minutes ago, Firesong said:

They let the room ventilate for a while before going in, so the Chlorine gas wouldn't be as concentrated, and would have mostly aired out. 

While that's a smart practice that won't make cloth masks more effective.

[Firesong]

Just now, Frustration said:

That would make some sense, but it doesn't mention a mechanical filter, and cloth is too porous to keep gas out.

While that's a smart practice that won't make cloth masks more effective.

I expanded more on it, just reload the page.

Also, I personally feel it just implies a mechanical filter. By saying they are able to filter the air. But that is just my opinion on it. 

[Arkangel]

Just a thought but what if the dust Wax inhaled was harmonium that alloyed with, say, the iron case or even Trellium? Or the explosion somehow stabilized a fraction of the harmonium to prevent it from reacting with water?