Lost Metal Chapter 12 and 13 Reactions

[Little_Dagger]

Chapters 12 and 13 are here!

First off, poor Wayne! I knew that MeLaan was going to leave Scadrial but I did't expect her to ask for it! I felt as heartbroken as Wayne must have.

Second, MeLaan would be the first kandra on a long-term mission in Shadesmar, which means there might have been shorter trips before. I am curious to know where and why. Also, why aluminum body?

Lastly, I truly enjoyed the science experiments and hope to see Lerasium and Atium reemerge again. If that happens, the book would have to be renamed "Lost metalS"

[i’m in the details]

7 minutes ago, Yuliya said:

Chapters 12 and 13 are here!

First off, poor Wayne! I knew that MeLaan was going to leave Scadrial but I did't expect her to ask for it! I felt as heartbroken as Wayne must have.

Second, MeLaan would be the first kandra on a long-term mission in Shadesmar, which means there might have been shorter trips before. I am curious to know where and why. Also, why aluminum body?

Lastly, I truly enjoyed the science experiments and hope to see Lerasium and Atium reemerge again. If that happens, the book would have to be renamed "Lost metalS"

If I was going to go explore realms with magic I didn’t understand, I wouldn’t mind having my bones be made of the one thing magic can’t affect. 

[Johnny Silverlight]

"Today, he’d have given almost anything to be someone else. MeLaan, wearing that fetching body—they were all fetching, honestly—led him through the entry hall to a small private sitting room on the other side."

Uh, one of MeLaan's body is a dog, Wayne. Are you trying to tell us something?......

[Little_Dagger]

2 minutes ago, i’m in the details said:

If I was going to go explore realms with I didn’t understand, I wouldn’t mind having my bones be made of thing magic can’t affect. 

True, it is also light to carry around, though not exactly sturdy. 

[Requiem17]

Oh gosh my HEART. The gamut of emotions Brandon has put me through.

I always had a feeling Wayne's lucky hat was the way he would pretend to be his caricature Wayne, and this confirmed it in the most painful way possible. 

And confirmation Wayne is a sex god I mean how do I even....

[Ixthos]

6 minutes ago, Johnny Silverlight said:

"Today, he’d have given almost anything to be someone else. MeLaan, wearing that fetching body—they were all fetching, honestly—led him through the entry hall to a small private sitting room on the other side."

Uh, one of MeLaan's body is a dog, Wayne. Are you trying to tell us something?......

But of course! What body would be better at playing fetch?

[Little_Dagger]

1 minute ago, Requiem17 said:

Oh gosh my HEART. The of Brandon has put me through.

I had a feeling Wayne's lucky was the way he would pretend to be Wayne, and this confirmed it in the most painful way possible. 

And confirmation Wayne is a sex god I mean how do I even....

Haha, well, for one, Wayne would be really good at role-playing 

[StormingTexan]

9 minutes ago, Yuliya said:

Haha, well, for one, Wayne would be really good at role-playing 

Oh man the thoughts that just ran through my head... 

Poor Wayne! I feel so bad for him. I have been thinking though since the prologue Wayne is going to have an important arc in this book. I think the fact Brandon is kicking him while he is down so much is further proof so hoping for a happy ending for Wayne. 

Interesting that Wax has been trying to separate harmonium. If this is possible it sets up some pretty exciting things for MBE3. I loved this sceen by the way and I am really happy to see Wax and Steris interacting in this way. That cliffhanger at the end! 

 

[Oldbackpac]

As happy as I am to learn that Wayne is the best lay MeLaan has had in centuries, does anyone else here just love how much time Sanderson spent on getting the science right? I have a Ph.D in chemistry and he had Wax run Elemental emission spectrum on the samples which is a standard elemental analysis experiment. And then he makes its Cosmere consistent by having the spectrum flat because the metals don't have distance energy levels, its just absolutely bounding with energy and gives a flat line. Then he out does himself again by running the acid/base experiments in an aluminzed steel box. Not only would that box be really corrosive resistant for the acids, but also investiture resistant for the magic. The experiments are internally consistent with both our real world science, and his fantasy magic system. Mad love for Brandon for blending the two laws together and making both of them feel equally real : )

Edited October 25, 2022 by Oldbackpac

[HavingTheHasHoidAPurpose?]

I have a feeling this resultant product of harmonium and trellium will be a super explosive even more powerful than ettmetal

not only is a new super explosive mentioned in the book blurb, it could have thematic implications for the carnage that will be unleased when Harmony and trell go to fisticuffs

 

Edited October 24, 2022 by HavingTheHasHoidAPurpose?

[Little_Dagger]

20 minutes ago, Oldbackpac said:

As happy as I am to learn that Wayne is the best lay MeLaan has had in centuries, does anyone else here just love how much time Sanderson spent on getting right? I have a Ph.D in and he had Wax run Elemental spectrum on the samples which is a standard elemental experiment. And then he makes its Cosmere consistent by having the spectrum flat because the metals don't have distance levels, its just absolutely bounding with energy and gives a flat line. Then he out does himself again by running the acid/base experiments in an aluminzed steel . Not only would that be really corrosive resistant for the acids, but also investiture resistant for . The experiments are internally consistent with both our real world , and his fantasy system. Made love for Brandon for blending the two laws together and making both of them feel equally real : )

Thank you for the insight! What is "distance energy levels"?

[offer]

2 hours ago, Yuliya said:

Thank you for the insight! What is "distance energy levels"?

I think she meant "distinct energy levels" - Metals emit (and absorb) light only in specific energies (which for light means specific colors). Each metal has different energy levels so by looking at the spectrum emited you can identify the metal.

This is also how astronomers can deduce the composition of different spars by looking at the light from them

[king of nowhere]

3 hours ago, Oldbackpac said:

As happy as I am to learn that Wayne is the best lay MeLaan has had in centuries, does anyone else here just love how much time Sanderson spent on getting the science right? I have a Ph.D in chemistry and he had Wax run Elemental emission spectrum on the samples which is a standard elemental analysis experiment. And then he makes its Cosmere consistent by having the spectrum flat because the metals don't have distance energy levels, its just absolutely bounding with energy and gives a flat line. Then he out does himself again by running the acid/base experiments in an aluminzed steel box. Not only would that box be really corrosive resistant for the acids, but also investiture resistant for the magic. The experiments are internally consistent with both our real world science, and his fantasy magic system. Made love for Brandon for blending the two laws together and making both of them feel equally real : )

was going to say the same. I've wondered about spectroscopy on a god metal myself.

though it is bizarre that harmonium explodes with water but does not react with acids. you know, because the main pathway for water reaction is by being a very weak acid, and acids (at least traditional acids like vax has access to) are in water solution anyway.

acids are also oxidizers, which is the other possible reaction pathway of water with metal.

but they are god metals, so i can accept some stuff that would be impossible for normal chemistry.

[18th Shard]

Speaking of spectroscopy of god metals, when harmonium is used to power Allomantic devices like the flying ships, do you think the glow it emits is its own spectra, the spectra of the metal it is mimicking, or maybe its own spectra with absorption lines along the mimicked metals emission spectra? 

 

Edit: Also, maybe the lack of reaction is similar to cesium forming a precipitate in aqueous HCl? I'm not a chemist, but maybe by lack of reaction, it's simply not near as dramatic as reaction with water and so it got missed that there is some small dissolved solid forming? 

Edited October 24, 2022 by 18th Shard

[king of nowhere]

33 minutes ago, 18th Shard said:

Edit: Also, maybe the lack of reaction is similar to cesium forming a precipitate in aqueous HCl? I'm not a chemist, but maybe by lack of reaction, it's simply not near as dramatic as reaction with water and so it got missed that there is some small dissolved solid forming? 

passivation - that is, the reaction forms a patina of an inert substance on the surface of the metal, that isolates and protects the metal from further reactions - is certainly possible. however, if there is no passivation in water, then there can only be passivation with some specific substance added by an acid. vax tried 10 different acids, it would be extremely unlikely that harmonium would form a different passivating compound with each one of them.

[+Oltux72]

32 minutes ago, 18th Shard said:

Speaking of spectroscopy of god metals, when harmonium is used to power Allomantic devices like the flying ships, do you think the glow it emits is its own spectra, the spectra of the metal it is mimicking, or maybe its own spectra with absorption lines along the mimicked metals emission spectra? 

Yes. It does have a spectrum even without spectral lines, which is what you are after with a spectrograph. You'll just get black body radiation depending on temperature.

 

[18th Shard]

53 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Yes. It does have a spectrum even without spectral lines, which is what you are after with a spectrograph. You'll just get black body radiation depending on temperature.

 

I'm aware of this. I was wondering more if the fact that it is using Investiture affects the spectral lines differently than simple black body radiation without that Investiture being used. 

[Johnny Silverlight]

Brandon has said that the god-metals do not correspond to any metals found in our universe. For example, harmonium/ettmetal is not cesium or any other alkali metal, even though it shares the property of extreme reactivity.

[Frustration]

If Wax has Electrolysis how has no one figured out how to make cheap aluminum?

[handleinthedark]

19 minutes ago, Frustration said:

If Wax has Electrolysis how has no one figured out how to make cheap aluminum?

Modern (earth) aluminum production is via electrolysis of purified alumina (Aluminum Oxide) in molten Cryolite. I would imagine they are actually using some form of electrolysis at this point but that is likely not effectively scaled or electricity hasn't become cheap enough for it to come down. It is also possible that they use some (waives hand in chemistry) electrolytic method that leaves it needing significant purification. Maybe they don't have access to sufficient quantities of cryolite too. If you can get the alumina pure enough then you get pure aluminum out. If your process doesn't get the precursor that pure you are likely dealing with significant impurities and costs to purify. Maybe good enough to prevent investiture leakage but perhaps requiring further refining for allomantic use.

 

Edit to add: That the original method was chemical reduction with potassium. This would yield an impure aluminum(requiring refinement) as well as be costly since you have to produce the potassium first. This is why aluminum was orignially more costly than gold. If they are using chemical reduction still then the knowledge of electrochemistry would not enable the cost reduction until they have a cryolite-type breakthrough.

Edited October 24, 2022 by handleinthedark
Adding context for historic Aluminum refining

[StanLemon]

3 hours ago, Frustration said:

If Wax has Electrolysis how has no one figured out how to make cheap aluminum?

I'm thinking it's one of those things that they have all the pieces for but haven't quite put those pieces together. Or the method is still early enough in its infancy to that it hasn't been put into an industrial level yet

[JustQuestin2004]

With all this science-y stuff about God Metals that I only half understand one question has popped into my mind:

How the hell was Malatium created? Is Atium different? How was that one guy from the Eleventh Metal able to make it?

[+Oltux72]

4 hours ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

With all this science-y stuff about God Metals that I only half understand one question has popped into my mind:

How the hell was Malatium created? Is Atium different? How was that one guy from the Eleventh Metal able to make it?

At a guess: Finely grind down the atium, melt the gold and sprinkle the atium in, hoping that it will dissolve.

[+Oltux72]

8 hours ago, 18th Shard said:

I'm aware of this. I was wondering more if the fact that it is using Investiture affects the spectral lines differently than simple black body radiation without that Investiture being used. 

Presumably yes, if it were using Investiture.

(Roshar)

Spoiler

We got those impossible spectra from voidlight and stormlight.

But this stuff is merely made from Investiture, not using it. It seems like Investiture behaves fundamentally different in solid form. In fact, is it even made from atoms?

[Ashbringer]

5 hours ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

With all this science-y stuff about God Metals that I only half understand one question has popped into my mind:

How the hell was Malatium created? Is Atium different? How was that one guy from the Eleventh Metal able to make it?

Malatium isn't a new elemental metal, it's an alloy of Atium and gold, so I'd assume you'd just alloy the two like any other metal.

Although there is that one recent WoB that may throw a curveball into that:

Spoiler

Apparently it's possible the "atium" we all know is actually an atium-electrum alloy, with atium mistings likely being electrum mistings and "pure" atium doing something entirely different.

 

11 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

though it is bizarre that harmonium explodes with water but does not react with acids. you know, because the main pathway for water reaction is by being a very weak acid, and acids (at least traditional acids like vax has access to) are in water solution anyway.

acids are also oxidizers, which is the other possible reaction pathway of water with metal.

but they are god metals, so i can accept some stuff that would be impossible for normal chemistry.

Something I learned recently is that there are acids that aren't water-based. They'd probably require a much more highly industrialized city, but they do exist.

But I doubt that's happening here. Seems more like it's unreactive entirely, which is odd for an alkali-esque metal.

... actually, what happens to the actual harmonium when it reacts with water? It does so, but where does it go?

Edited October 25, 2022 by Ashbringer