Religions in Alloy of Law (spoilers)

[DariusJenai]

So, there seem to be a few religions that have popped up in AoL.

1) The Church of the Survivor seems to still be going strong. Based primarily on the teaching of Kelsier. Followed by Steris and possibly Marasi in AoL.

2) The Path of Harmony (name assumed, as Path and Pathian are the names given). Seems to be based on the morals of Sazed. Studies the information left behind by Sazed from the pre-Final Empire religions. Followed by Wax in AoL.

3) Sliverism is mentioned only once, and that they revere Ironeyes. Followed by the Yomen family in AoL.

4) Trellism seems to believe that Mistings, etc are special. Followed by Miles in AoL.

Notable Thoughts:

1) Ironeyes was Marsh's nickname. He appears to have become a symbol of Death in at least one of the main religions, and is referred to as such by Marasi, but has followers of his own in Sliverism.

2) The Path seems to be based on Sazed's teachings, with Vin's earring and mist-thinking added in.

3) Trell was the name of a God in a religion that Sazed tried to teach Vin. The religion was based on the stars, and was important in allowing Sazed to move Scadrial back into its proper orbit after taking the Shards. That particular religion was called Trelagism, however, and had no known thoughts on the Metallic Arts. Could be a mutation of the religion, a separate religion that co-opted the Trelagism God (Think Greek/Roman), or an unintentional reuse of the name.

4) Miles claims before/during his death that "the men of gold and red, bearers of the final metal, will come". Unknown if this is a personal belief or a tenant of Trellism.

5) There is an additional group referred to as the "Faceless Immortals, the Hands of Harmony". Unknown who/what these are, presumably a sort of priest/prophet of Sazed/Harmony. My personal theory is a modification of the Kandra, but it's less of a theory and more of an interesting possibility that I would like to be true.

6) The Lord Ruler is specifically referred to as a Sliver (actually the Sliver), indicating at least a minor understanding of some of the Cosmere.

Of all of these, Trellism seems to be the most interesting of the religions to me. It was mentioned in Sazed's copperminds, making it a pre-Final Empire religion. However, it appears to have tenants related to Mistings/Ferrings, of which only Feruchemists were even somewhat well known before Alendi found the Well. I think it most likely that this was a religion founded after Rashek returned from the Well, revering those newly created godlike beings, but before Rashek decided to create his own personal religion in the Steel Ministry. It's also the only presumably pre-Empire religion that is specifically mentioned as still having followers.

[Vauric]

About #3, while reading through I had associated Iron-Eyes with TLR, and assumed that it was a continuation of Yomen's of TLR in Hero of Ages. Looking back, I see the Marsh connection, but part of me still wants to believe its TLR focused, and the name just being co-opted from Marsh. Or that Sliverism is TLR focused, but Iron-eyes references the Ruin-controlled Marsh that Yomen saw at the end of Hero of Ages.

[DariusJenai]

I had originally associated Ironeyes with TLR while reading too. But the connection to Marsh's name, and the fact that Wax referred to TLR as the Sliver while going over the basics of Compounding made me think they were different. Plus, considering Marasi directly called him that in the Epilogue, made me decide that Ironeyes = Marsh. Plus, if you think about it, most of the survivors of the final battle, and the Church of the Survivor in particular, would likely have thought of Marsh as a demon/devil figure, considering he's both an Inquisitor, and was directly involved in Ruins attempts to end the world. When you add in the fact that TLR himself didn't have spikes through his eyes, it made more sense for it to be an Inquisitor, of which Marsh was presumably the only one still alive.

Sliverism in that case would probably represent the few who knew that Marsh was actually fighting for the side of good, and maybe even his part in helping stop Ruins plans at the end.

[b4dave]

Why does Marsh have to be a devil figure? Ruin is no longer around to influence him, if anything he would be influenced by Sazed now, making him an agent of Harmony

[Soother]

He is an agent of Harmony. It's stated as such at the end of the book. He is viewed in a negative light by most of the people in Elendel likely due to the atrocities he commited before the end of HoA, though the explicit position of Marsh's place in the mythos at the time of AoL is not given. The perceptions of the people do not necessarily reflect the nature of said 'dieties.' Marsh seems to be more of a messenger of Harmony than anything else

[Guest Jacob Santos]

He is an agent of Harmony. It's stated as such at the end of the book. He is viewed in a negative light by most of the people in Elendel likely due to the atrocities he commited before the end of HoA, though the explicit position of Marsh's place in the mythos at the time of AoL is not given. The perceptions of the people do not necessarily reflect the nature of said 'dieties.' Marsh seems to be more of a messenger of Harmony than anything else

I disagree. Unless messengers go against their leaders from time to time to deliver messages the leader doesn't want delivered. No. I think Marsh and Harmony (Sazed) talk from time to time. However, given what Marsh says at the end, I doubt Harmony orders him to do anything.

The message Marsh delivers to Marsei for Wax, probably goes against what Harmony intends for Wax to know. I think that Marsh includes hints at certain people to set her at ease, even with his smoothing, it seems that he needed some extra boost to not freak her out completely. Revealing Breeze, which I assume that a follower of the Survivor would know. He also talks of Harmony, something Wax would know for when she talks about meeting Ironeyes (Marsh).

Who else thinks that the 4 altars are for Vin, Kelsier, Elend, and Sazed?

[Soother]

I am under the impression that Marsh works under Harmony as an agent and occasional messenger, by his ability to materialize in the physical world. But with the manner of Sazed/Harmony, I would imagine his enforcement of balance would be tempered by his willingness to not prevent others from doing as they will (for the most part). From his actions in AoL, he is a reactionary deity, not proactive. He allows things to follow their natural Path, but corrects the path as need be. This would allow Marsh's actions, which are within his character, while also maintaining the balance, at least in the long term.

As for his comment on Breeze, I felt that it was more to himself than to Marasi.

[darniil]

Why does Marsh have to be a devil figure? Ruin is no longer around to influence him, if anything he would be influenced by Sazed now, making him an agent of Harmony

HE HAS GREAT BIG SCARY POINTY SPIKES IN HIS EYES.

Would you want to have a giant with railroad spikes poking through his skull over for tea and biscuits? To sit next to you at the opera? To debate beef futures with?

NO! When you see him, you run screaming in terror! This is not someone you want to have dating your daughter. This is a force of nature that forcibly initiates "fight or flight", and just as forcibly railroads "fight" out of the way so "flight" can make use of that railroad and get you the hell out of there!

(Note: Caps and italics used for humorous intents only. Not to be taken seriously.)

[Inkthinker]

It's typically ironic of Brandon to have a good character be perceived as wicked. Marsh may be a messenger of Harmony, but he's misrepresented due to his appearance and 300-year-old legends/myths of the Inquisition. He's scary, so by default he's seen as demonic.

This ain't hard math.

[Aradel]

I don't think that Marsh is an "Evil" figure exactly. If people thought he was "Evil" why would followers of sliverism practice openly? Ironeyes is more like the Grim Reaper, He's not a bad guy, he's just doing his job, and:

HE HAS GREAT BIG SCARY POINTY SPIKES IN HIS EYES.

Edited November 10, 2011 by Goradel's Nephew

[Silus - Shard of Flame]

I'm pretty sure that Sliverism is the religion of the Steel Ministry passed down by Yomen and his Obligators over the centuries. The deity there would be TLR, and Ironeyes, as a Steel Inquisitor, a kind of "prophet" if you will, having a position of reverence in their doctrine. Remember, the Inquisitors were highly placed in the Ministry, probably preached as TLR's holy servants during the Final Empire. Whereas Survivorism would consider Inquisitors devils, due to their god slaying one just before TLR struck him down.

The belief that Mistings and Feruchemists are "special" appears to be something that Miles used to rationalize his actions. He had special placing as a magic user and thus was allowed to do things that others can't. Trellism is in the Words of Founding (read: Sazed's copperminds), and as a pre-Ascension religion would have very little to say about Allomancy.

[Chicken]

Ironeyes is the Survivor's brother. That's mythology begging to be written right there.

[DariusJenai]

The belief that Mistings and Feruchemists are "special" appears to be something that Miles used to rationalize his actions. He had special placing as a magic user and thus was allowed to do things that others can't. Trellism is in the Words of Founding (read: Sazed's copperminds), and as a pre-Ascension religion would have very little to say about Allomancy.

Like I said, this is why I find Trellism to be the most interesting of the mentioned religions. The way Miles thoughts are worded, it seems like Trellism specifically mentions at least one of the Metallic Arts.

The Words of Founding had even included a lengthy explanation of Trellism and its teaching, which proved men like Miles were special.

So, it could have been talking about Feruchemisty, which was at least known among the Terris, or Allomancy, which was according to Sazed exceptionally rare (maybe making it a good candidate for a religion based around its 'specialness'?).

That being said, I think you're probably right about Sliverism being the continuation of the Steel Ministry. It makes sense that the Yomen family would stay with it, and it makes sense that Ironeyes, as the last remaining Inquisitor, would be an important figure.

As for Marsh, I think he still talks with Harmony, and the two of them are working together towards some goal. And they seem to be working together more or less as equals.

[darniil]

I dunno about Harmony having a goal. After three and a half centuries holding the two Shards, Sazed's mind might be starting to be affected. Remember what he told Wax: "The point is Harmony, creating a way for as many as possible to make their own choices." That's the only goal I think Harmony has right now.

Then there's Marsh's line at the end: "Harmony has particular views about how things must be done. I do not always agree with him. Oddly, his particular beliefs require that he allow that." Why would the two not agree? Possibly because Marsh doesn't share Harmony's hands-off approach.

[Chicken]

Marsh's comment struck me as having opposite opinions with Harmony about this mess. Harmony told Wax he doesn't play favorites, he probably sees the bad guys as much his "children" as anyone else on Scadrial, but Marsh clearly wants to help Wax on this matter.

As for Trellism, I was really expecting Miles to claim Twinborns are dominant toward the end. Then we could've made up all sorts of baseless theories claiming he was Rashek reborn or something. Alas, it wasn't meant to be...

[DariusJenai]

Since Marsh gave Marasi the book to have Wax read, I'd agree that most of their disagreements probably revolve around exactly how hands-on to be. Of course, Harmony's hands-off methods seemed to work quite well for Wax. And Harmony probably has a better idea of how things will turn out for any given method than Marsh.

No clue on whether 300 years is enough time for Sazed to start feeling the changes of the Shards, and especially how holding 2 shards (since Harmony isn't actually a Shard of its own), would change him. I think his Harmony method is probably more of a personal choice than the nature of his Shards. And given what he went through with TLR, Preservation and Ruin, its a natural choice to take a more hands-off approach.

[happyman]

When I realized what "High Imperial" was, I just about gagged with laughter. It reminded me of nothing so much as the beatitude "The meek shall inherit the Earth."

As for the source of religions:

The Path of Harmony: Started by Sazed via the records he left. Pretty obvious, really. No clue who else followed it in the early days. In any sense that matters, I would call this religion the truest one on Scadrial.

Survivorism: Obviously a continuation of Kelsier's church. Demoux and probably many, many others carried this religion through the breaking. For some reason, they now have altars, as seen in the prologue.

Sliverism: In all likelihood a continuation of the Lord Ruler's church, although it has apparently changed dramatically over the years. Is claimed by a somewhat biased source to worship Marsh; my guess is either that the church has drifted noticeably without guidance, especially in light of the fact that Marsh survived and the Lord Ruler didn't, or they don't actually worship Marsh but treat him as a prophet. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if somebody had come up with the clever idea that Marsh replaced TLR after TLR died, especially given that Marsh is functionally immortal, just like guess who. Yomen and his family and followers would almost certainly have been the kernel of this church.

Trellism: Not a clue how this one survived or what it means or how it has changed. It the original trilogy, as far as I can tell, the original religion had no special status whatsoever. It was just one of many that Sazed taught, studied, and in the end, used to restore the world.

[darniil]

Trellism: Not a clue how this one survived or what it means or how it has changed. It the original trilogy, as far as I can tell, the original religion had no special status whatsoever. It was just one of many that Sazed taught, studied, and in the end, used to restore the world.

I've tried to put together everything we know about Trelagism in its wiki page. It's not much, admittedly, but that's pretty much all we have.

[DariusJenai]

I've tried to put together everything we know about Trelagism in its wiki page. It's not much, admittedly, but that's pretty much all we have.

It's worth pointing out on the Wiki that Miles refers to his religion as Trellism, not Trelagism. The only actual link is the name of the god Trell. They may indeed be totally separate religions, linked only by the name of a common god. It's probably going too far to call Miles a Trelagist.

[darniil]

Ooh, I totally glossed over that. Thank you. That's a good point.

[Adrienne]

I'm so glad to see this post. I've been moving and I only have iPhone 3G access.

What a total missed opportunity for Brandon here. All major religions (that I'm aware of) have a mother figure. Tindwyl was a breeder and through her feruchemists live on in this world. I'm sure she wasn't the only one, but she is the only name we know. I would think that with world building this is something that would have been included. I'm curious to hear Peters thoughts on this one.

[Aranfan]

I'm just going to note that the mythology that would spring up around the religions is very interesting to contemplate. Consider:

1. Sliverism is likely the continuance of TLR's religion, and likely reveres Marsh as the last inquisitor.

2. Marsh is Kelsier's brother.

3. Vin never joined the church of the Survivor, and was likely a nonpracticing Sliverist to the end.

4. Harmony was Kelsier's friend and confidant.

[DariusJenai]

I don't think Vin would consider herself a nonpracticing Sliverist. She's probably the closest to being a true agnostic, even if she did come to be a revered figure in a couple of the new religions.

I too would be interested in seeing what the Terris religion became. As far as we know, all of its prophecies were fulfilled at the end of HoA. I could see the Path growing out of some of the core tenants of the Terris religion however. It has that love of knowledge that the Terris people carried.

Edited November 15, 2011 by DariusJenai

[happyman]

I too would be interested in seeing what the Terris religion became. As far as we know, all of its prophecies were fulfilled at the end of HoA. I could see the Path growing out of some of the core tenants of the Terris religion however. It has that love of knowledge that the Terris people carried.

Good point. Not only was it a natural outgrowth of their previous religion, but it also has that "It's our guy who became the new god!" nationalistic feel to it. Given that before his Ascension, Sazed was essentially an uncrowned king, and after the ascension, he was their god...yeah, the Terris people almost certainly, as a group, began following the Path. I mean, you could make a pretty good case that by following it, they were just reverting to their ancestral (and essentially true) religion.

[xero]

"Gold and red". Does this match anyone's house colors from Warbreaker or WoK? I don't think Elantris mentioned house colors, but its been a while.

I'm leaning toward Trelagism and Trellism being two different religions, or at least the latter being a new denomination of the original, perhaps influenced by newer information or another Shard. I wonder if the book that Ironeyes delivers for Wax is in relation to Mr Suit's promise to deliver "proper information" over time. If so, that would connect Ironeyes, Trell, and Miles' prophecy together.

It's stretching, but Trelagism involved a god of the night and his one eyed brother, that could be perverted into Kel and Marsh at the end of HoA with his one spike missing. Though obviously someone saw fit to gift Marsh (if he is indeed Ironeyes) with a replacement spike. Given this could be his original fetched after the final battle in HoA.

Also, the reappearance of the starts after over 1000 years, followed by the information in the Words of Founding, could have easily produced a new respect for the religion, even if it gets perverted.

Could also be that the unnamed southern people from HoA have made their way to the Elendel area and brought their knowledge and beliefs with them.