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Theory about Adonalsium


SwordNimiForPresident

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2 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

Being enabled to stop shard blades,  Stop magic based mind control,   And  Generally nullify investiture  Doesn't seem overpowered for enough you?  I find that confusing honestly, I consider to be so far the most overpowered metal.  I can't wait  Until people find out how to make it So it's not so expensive.

Imagine Bullets that couldn't be pushed, Armor that could block sharp blades (or shard guns)  Materials that caint be soulcast,  Honestly Magic is gonna be a lot less powerful in the cosmere once people figure out  How easy it is to make aluminum. 

Aluminum is (seemingly) unique, and certainly very important in the Cosmere. I'm not arguing against that at all. But powerful isn't automatically the same as a godmetal, and we really barely even know what godmetals are in the first place.

It still could be Adonalsium's godmetal, of course, if such a thing really existed. It could also be something more like a twist, like aluminum being what was left behind when Adonalsium was shattered but not what its godmetal actually was. It could be some product or remnant of Yolen, which had access to magics and knowledge preceding and outside of what the "modern" Cosmere features. Or countless other things.

We haven't seen any evidence that godmetals can be produced from mundane components by any industrial processes (godmetallurgy?), let alone a relatively simple one, so the ease of producing aluminum at scale strikes me as an argument against. As we learn more about godmetals that may change. Additionally, it would be out of character for Sanderson's writing to tease something for so long while also telegraphing it so directly and constantly that you can't imagine any other reveal. Those are the major reasons I don't find the case for aluminum-as-Adonalsium-ium very compelling right now. As for reasons to believe it might be, "I find it really impressive" is a pretty weak, perhaps specious, piece of evidence.

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9 hours ago, Returned said:

Aluminum is (seemingly) unique, and certainly very important in the Cosmere. I'm not arguing against that at all. But powerful isn't automatically the same as a godmetal, and we really barely even know what godmetals are in the first place.

It still could be Adonalsium's godmetal, of course, if such a thing really existed. It could also be something more like a twist, like aluminum being what was left behind when Adonalsium was shattered but not what its godmetal actually was. It could be some product or remnant of Yolen, which had access to magics and knowledge preceding and outside of what the "modern" Cosmere features. Or countless other things.

We haven't seen any evidence that godmetals can be produced from mundane components by any industrial processes (godmetallurgy?), let alone a relatively simple one, so the ease of producing aluminum at scale strikes me as an argument against. As we learn more about godmetals that may change. Additionally, it would be out of character for Sanderson's writing to tease something for so long while also telegraphing it so directly and constantly that you can't imagine any other reveal. Those are the major reasons I don't find the case for aluminum-as-Adonalsium-ium very compelling right now. As for reasons to believe it might be, "I find it really impressive" is a pretty weak, perhaps specious, piece of evidence.

Fair point. 

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I'm pretty sure aluminum isn't a godmetal, per se. It can be created by Soulcasting like other metals, whereas making something like atium would require super-charged Soulcasting. So I don't think aluminum is more Invested than any other random metal.

Maybe less, actually, aluminum seems to disperse or ground Investiture somehow (it's not just unaffected itself, aluminum blocks affecting things behind the aluminum). So it might actually have less of the 'ambient' Investiture in everything than a random piece of iron or gold or whatever.

Aluminum is definitely a very powerful tool! But a godmetal needs to be super heavily Invested, to the point that it's effectively Investiture in solid form, and I don't think aluminum is that.

That doesn't rule out aluminum weirdness being Shattering related somehow. (Like maybe Adonalsium's godmetal had the same Physical atomic structure as aluminum, and the Shattering broke aluminum across the cosmere somehow*. Or a Dawnshard imbued aluminum weapon was used, and Dawnshard weirdness messed up aluminum. Or something.)

 

*Hmm, given that all Investiture was assigned to a Shard at the Shattering, would any pieces of Adonalsium-godmetal have turned into one of the Shards' godmetals?

But different Shards have physically different godmetals (atium is platinum-group, harmonium is alkali metal) so maybe that transition didn't work right...

Is there any surviving dragonsteel in the cosmere? Could dragonsteel be physically aluminum?

I would be on board with this theory except that silver is also weird without being used in an actual magic system.

Edited by cometaryorbit
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6 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

I'm pretty sure aluminum isn't a godmetal, per se. It can be created by Soulcasting like other metals, whereas making something like atium would require super-charged Soulcasting. So I don't think aluminum is more Invested than any other random metal.

Maybe less, actually, aluminum seems to disperse or ground Investiture somehow (it's not just unaffected itself, aluminum blocks affecting things behind the aluminum). So it might actually have less of the 'ambient' Investiture in everything than a random piece of iron or gold or whatever.

Aluminum is definitely a very powerful tool! But a godmetal needs to be super heavily Invested, to the point that it's effectively Investiture in solid form, and I don't think aluminum is that.

That doesn't rule out aluminum weirdness being Shattering related somehow. (Like maybe Adonalsium's godmetal had the same Physical atomic structure as aluminum, and the Shattering broke aluminum across the cosmere somehow*. Or a Dawnshard imbued aluminum weapon was used, and Dawnshard weirdness messed up aluminum. Or something.)

 

*Hmm, given that all Investiture was assigned to a Shard at the Shattering, would any pieces of Adonalsium-godmetal have turned into one of the Shards' godmetals?

But different Shards have physically different godmetals (atium is platinum-group, harmonium is alkali metal) so maybe that transition didn't work right...

Is there any surviving dragonsteel in the cosmere? Could dragonsteel be physically aluminum?

I would be on board with this theory except that silver is also weird without being used in an actual magic system.

I could see it maybe sharing an atomic number with aluminum, that could possibly explain why the metal is so unique.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 10/4/2022 at 0:38 AM, Hoids Imaginary Friend said:

Wait.. I though God metals can be burned by anyone? 

Wasn't that the point of Atiums retcon?

I think there's still connection issues preventing burning God metals from other Shards outside of Scadrial but aluminium is tried and true.

Silver maybe, it's currently known as an inert Allomanctic metal. Though if I'm correct about the connection problem, maybe you need to have a spiritual connection to all 16 Shards to burn it..

Im pretty sure the reason Atium wasnt burnable by normal people was because in Era one it was an Atium alloy.

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On 5/10/2022 at 0:33 AM, SwordNimiForPresident said:

I had another thought today about how the shattering of Adonalsium may have been achieved.

As I understand it, Hoid was in possession of a Dawnshard in the past, and was at least present for the shattering. Given that he was an OG Lightweaver, it may be possible that he used Lightweaving turned up to 11 by his Dawnshard to generate an anti-rhythm to Adonalsium, causing it to shatter.

I thought Hoid got lightweaving when we saw it in the books, so like, later than Shallan for instance?

 

On 30/9/2022 at 8:23 PM, SwordNimiForPresident said:

I was considering Adonalsium's name today and it occurred to me that it shares its suffix with all of the god metals (Lerasium, Atium, Rayseium). This made me wonder if possibly Adonalsium is the name of a metal who's namesake was the precursor to the Shards. Thinking of it brought a few more things to my attention. Adonalsium is often said to have been "shattered". Now I always assumed that this was a reference to the fact that the power was broken into pieces, but now that I'm thinking of it as a metal, it might have been literal. Even the fact that the pieces of Adonalsium are called Shards hints at it being a metal, as a shattered metal object would be broken into shards.

My theory then is this: Adonalsium is the name of a metal that was a manifestation of the power of a being known as Ado, Adonal, Adona or Adonai. The Shattering was achieved by figuring out how to break Adonalsium down into smaller components resulting in the aforementioned entities death, and the creation of the Shards, which were literal shards of the metal.

A few interesting points about the names that I've posited, Adoda in Alethi means "light" which ,as we have seen, is a pretty common way to refer to Investiture (Stormlight, Lifelight, Voidlight, etc.). Another interesting point which I saw on the coppermind is that Adonai is apparently a Hebrew name for God, and was possibly an inspiration for Adonalsium's name.

Another possibility that I considered is that Adonalsium might literally be "Light metal", and there is no entity associated with it.

It's a fresh idea to me, so it's entirely possible that there's a WoB floating around out there that totally eviscerates it, but I thought it was interesting enough to share.

Also, sorry if this theory already exists, I didn't see it in my admittedly brief search of the forums.

edit: grammar

I really like this, it makes a ot of sense, I also thought of them as crystals but we've always been said, "there's something about metals", so, yeah, it's probably not much in the ways of plot, but you're probably right!

On 5/10/2022 at 2:38 PM, SwordNimiForPresident said:

I wonder if this hypothetical metal might be known by another name that we’ve heard, Dragonsteel.

good call!

btw dragonsteel -> steel of Dragon -> Wheel of Time universe is connected to Cosmere:lol: (havn't read the whole series I just know Dragon is thing in it from the first book)

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21 hours ago, Lunu’anaki said:

Dragon Steel and Aluminum could be one in the same. A before the shattering and after the shattering kind of thing... It would explain why it's so rare.

Normal metals cannot be shardmetals.

And aluminum is really hard to get without industrial processes.

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5 hours ago, SpinningSky said:

I thought Hoid got lightweaving when we saw it in the books, so like, later than Shallan for instance?

 

I really like this, it makes a ot of sense, I also thought of them as crystals but we've always been said, "there's something about metals", so, yeah, it's probably not much in the ways of plot, but you're probably right!

good call!

btw dragonsteel -> steel of Dragon -> Wheel of Time universe is connected to Cosmere:lol: (havn't read the whole series I just know Dragon is thing in it from the first book)

I think he got Lightweaving again, in Stormlight. He seems way to familiar with it to have not had it in the past. Could be wrong though.

It would be cool if there was a way to connect TWoT to the Cosmere. Plot twist, Adonalsium was the Dark One, and Hoid is the Dragon.

edit: now that I think about it, he Lightweaves when hes talking to Shallan, he changes what she made. So he simply upgraded his Lightweaving when he got the bond.

Edited by SwordNimiForPresident
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Hoid definitely already had access to at least one magic, and possibly several, that could be called Lightweaving (among other things), and has used it (or them) in several of the different Cosmere series. But it's a different magic from what Roshar has even though it can produce similar results:

Quote

kalamitous_emoashions

With Hoid, we know that he's got some sort of Lightweaving, Yolen magic. If we're gonna hypothetically say that he bonds with the Cryptic, at the end of Oathbringer. Talking about resonance between magic systems, what are we going to see if he tried the two together? Would they be separate? Or would they form some sort of resonance magic system?

Brandon Sanderson

So, I'm gonna go ahead and RAFO that.

Oathbringer London signing (Nov. 28, 2017)

Quote

Stormlightning

If Hoid could have picked to join any order of the Knights Radiant, regardless of the Oaths he had to swear, just the powers, would he have picked Lightweaver?

Brandon Sanderson

He would have.

Stormlightning

Tell me more!

Brandon Sanderson

Lightweaving matches him very well, he's quite familiar with it and experienced with it. He's very good at using it and he likes it.

It's the fulfillment of a long, long quest of his to finally get full access to Lightweaving.

Stormlightning

Even though he had some sort of Lightweaving?

Brandon Sanderson

He did have some sort of, yes. He's a very very happy Hoid.

FanX 2018 (Sept. 7, 2018)

 

Edited by Returned
Fixed typos
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  • 11 months later...

I’ve wondered about whether Adonalsium is a metal for some time. Also wonder if there is a Vessel/Super-Shard relationship going on.
 

Thinking it may be that the sixteen just didn’t like the person/being who was the Vessel. Perhaps some wanted power but for others it was a necessary evil to get rid of a ruler they didn’t like. I feel like I remember Hoid saying something to that effect but can’t recall where the quote is (definitely Stormlight, maybe OB or ROW?). 
 

Would love to see this thread get going again. To me, it’s the mystery at the heart of everything Cosmere. 

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16 minutes ago, First of the Dun said:

I’ve wondered about whether Adonalsium is a metal for some time. Also wonder if there is a Vessel/Super-Shard relationship going on.
 

Thinking it may be that the sixteen just didn’t like the person/being who was the Vessel. Perhaps some wanted power but for others it was a necessary evil to get rid of a ruler they didn’t like. I feel like I remember Hoid saying something to that effect but can’t recall where the quote is (definitely Stormlight, maybe OB or ROW?). 
 

Would love to see this thread get going again. To me, it’s the mystery at the heart of everything Cosmere. 

Okay so just found some other posts on the topic (of course after I had posted here, despite having looked before). I *really* like the idea that since investiture can gain sentience when there’s enough of it around for long enough, that Ado started as a force but become a sentient being after some time. Helps explain how they could exist before creation.

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One would think that a sentient god would be able to prevent their own demise.

Adonalsium being nothing more than a metal/natural force that got split up and ingested by 16 individuals sounds like a good theory.

Edited by trav
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21 minutes ago, trav said:

One would think that a sentient god would be able to prevent their own demise.

Ambition, Dominion, Devotion, Ruin, Preservation, Honor, Odium - the list goes on and on.

13 hours ago, First of the Dun said:

I’ve wondered about whether Adonalsium is a metal for some time. Also wonder if there is a Vessel/Super-Shard relationship going on.

21 minutes ago, trav said:

Adonalsium being nothing more than a metal/natural force that got split up and ingested by 16 individuals sounds like a good theory.

Not really in my opinion, Adonalsium created Roshar, and his investiture was everywhere, he has to be a sentient, omnipresent entity - it doesn't mean he has to be like Shards, and has a Vessel, as rules of Shards might simply don't apply to him. Him being just a piece of metal doesn't fit. 

Now about the theory, even if there was some name mixing, breaking Harmonium into Atium and Lerasium didn't break Harmony into Ruin and Preservation, so breaking Adonalsium-god-metal wouldn't break "Ado" into 16 Shards just because. That simply can't happen. We know that the Shattering is similar to Splintering, but Splintering happens just on a smaller scale, and breaking a god metal doesn't break its Shard, not Splintering a Shard, doesn't break its god metal:

Spoiler

Mason Wheeler (paraphrased)

You've said that Splintering a Shard is essentially the same thing as the Shattering of Adonalsium, repeated on a smaller scale.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yeah.

Mason Wheeler (paraphrased)

And a while ago, someone asked you if Splintering was permanent or reversible, and you said that it can be reversed.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yeah.

Mason Wheeler (paraphrased)

And Shardholders [Vessels] tend to take the name of the Shard they hold. So you've got Sazed, who goes by "Harmony" now, after taking up Ruin and Preservation. That makes me wonder, does he hold two Shards... or one?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

You could really answer that either way. The distinction is a really subjective one, and you could say that he's holding both Shards, or that he holds one single Harmony.

A Memory of Light Seattle Signing (Feb. 12, 2013)

 

Spoiler

Volratho

What happens to god metals when a Shard is Splintered?

Brandon Sanderson

God metals are unaffected.

Volratho

And atium and lerasium stayed unaffected when they merged?

Brandon Sanderson

Lerasium and atium that existed before were unaffected.

Skyward Chicago signing (Nov. 16, 2018)

 

Hoid certainly knows the true name of Adonalsium, and he calls him Adonalsium on multiple occasions, just like he calls all Shards by their Vessel's names - we don't see him calling Preservation as Lerasium but just Leras. Shards also possess greater knowledge granted to them by the power itself, and once again Sazed calls him just Adonalsium.

Also is Waxillium a god metal or just a name? :) 

 

In the future please avoid responding to an old thread (this one is a year old, as that's against the forum's policies. While it's an interesting theory, and rediscussing it might be fun, it's still a necro-posting. 

Also @First of the Dun please avoid double posting - you can just edit your previous post and add more to it:

Spoiler

At the bottom left of a post you will see a "+" icon, a "Quote" link, and (your posts only) and Edit link. On the bottom right you will see an up arrow.

  • The Up Arrow is how you thank people or "like" a post
  • The "Quote" link is exactly that, when you click it the quote will be added to the reply at the bottom of the thread wherever the cursor is
    • So, if you have already started to reply before you decide to quote you can then add the quote before or after your text depending on the cursor location when you click "Quote"
  • The + icon is multi-quote. As you read a thread, if you want to quote multiple items you click that for each post
    • As you click +, you should see a toaster pop-up on the bottom right of the browser window showing how many quotes you will have
    • They are added in the order you click the + icon, not in the original post order, so you can set the order of quotes for your reply
    • When you are ready to reply, click on the toaster pop-up and it will take you directly to the reply section and add the quotes automatically
  • Finally, you can also highlight a small section of a post and, when hovering over the highlit portion, click the "Quote" button that pops up.
  • Also note that you can move quotes after they have been added to your reply.
    • For example, you add a quote and realize there are no empty lines below it for you to type - so you can hit "enter" before the quote to make an empty line then when you hover over a quote you will see a 4-way arrow at the top-left that you can use to drag the quote up (or down)  and move the quote to before the empty line. . .
  • Use the Edit link to make changes to a completed post or add information to your post if it is the most recent (to avoid double posting)
    • Quote buttons will still send a quote to "Reply" if you have a post open for edit, but it is easy to cut/paste the quote to the Edit box
    • Editing allows you to add a reason for the edit (Spelling and grammar (SPAG), formatting, clarification, new information, etc.), but it is not required.
  • Next to Edit you will also find an "options" dropbox, you can use this to hide your post if you want to remove it after posting
  • At the top of a post you will find "Report Post"
    • Use this if you do accidentally double-post (sometimes it's the browser or a slow link that causes a double post) - just leave a message that it was an accidental double post and the Mods can fix it. If it was the first post of a new thread that doubled, they usually can merge the threads if they both have answers, so all of the content is retained.

Hope that helps.

 

 

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10 hours ago, alder24 said:

Ambition, Dominion, Devotion, Ruin, Preservation, Honor, Odium - the list goes on and on.

Destroyed by other forces of god? Not quite the same as Yolish people. Its as if Vin could have killed Ruin without the guide/help of Preservation. And without Ruin having restrictions on what he could do.

10 hours ago, alder24 said:

Adonalsium created Roshar, and his investiture was everywhere

Much like the fundamental laws of nature created you, me, our planet and the universe. They are not sentient either.

10 hours ago, alder24 said:

and breaking a god metal doesn't break its Shard

Without all of his Atium Ruin isn't whole so it does break something.

10 hours ago, alder24 said:

we don't see him calling Preservation as Lerasium

The point of OP would be that Adonalsium is called that way because it has no vessel.

10 hours ago, alder24 said:

In the future please avoid responding to an old thread

This rule does not apply here. The threads is still relevant which means there is legitimate reason to revive it. Its not outdated either.

New threads should only be created is suitable old threads don't exist. 

 

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4 hours ago, trav said:

Destroyed by other forces of god? Not quite the same as Yolish people. Its as if Vin could have killed Ruin without the guide/help of Preservation. And without Ruin having restrictions on what he could do.

Rayse wasn't killed by any god. He was killed by Nightblood and didn't see it coming because of Renarin's influence - not a god. The original 16+1 had 4 Dawnshards and a dragon or two on their side, that's a looooot, and apparently that's enough. 

Also couldn't Adonalsium just allow Shattering to happen? 

4 hours ago, trav said:

Much like the fundamental laws of nature created you, me, our planet and the universe. They are not sentient either.

No, I don't see that. Adonalsium designed Roshar, created unstable moons, its continent shaped in the image of the Julia set, Adonalsium created Cosmere - that's the best evidence for sentience. Nature doesn't design, it's random. Nature can't be killed, it's eternal. Adonalsium was killed. You don't call electromagnetism a god. You also don't tell a force that "killing" it is "for his own good". But truthfully it is unknown if Adonalsium was some entity or a force, but most Cosmere individuals suspect, and most evidence points to, that he was some sentient entity. SH ch 3-2 "Anyway, there was a God. Adonalsium. I don’t know if it was a force or a being, though I suspect the latter."

Plus we know investiture gains sentience if left alone long enough - Adonalsium was investiture of all 16 Shards combined, eventually he would gain sentience.

4 hours ago, trav said:

Without all of his Atium Ruin isn't whole so it does break something.

No. Ruin was kind of Splintered by Preservation and part of his power was locked in the Atium cycle. But this power is still his, it didn't destroy Ruin nor Ati. Investiture leaks into PR manifesting as Atium - that's the nature of god metals. But your statement makes no sense in the context of this theory - burning Atium doesn't break Ruin, it doesn't break investiture into pieces, destruction of Harmonium doesn't break Harmony. Destruction of Raysium's dagger didn't break Odium. No matter what you do to a god metal, it doesn’t affect its Shard, because a Shard is infinitely bigger than its god metal. 

Spoiler

Lance Alvein (paraphrased)

You've said that "The Pits of Hathsin were crafted by Preservation as a place to hide the chunk of Ruin's body that he had stolen away". How does one Shard steal a portion of another Shard and create a Physical outlet for it, like the Pits were for Ruin's power?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

It has to do with clash between the two Shards' power. When pressed, he then said that it was "kind of" like splintering

Hal-Con 2012 (Oct. 30, 2012)

 

4 hours ago, trav said:

The point of OP would be that Adonalsium is called that way because it has no vessel.

No, the theory is about Adonalsium being called like that, because that is what "Ado's" god metal was called, and it's his god metal that was Shattered, which somehow killed "Ado" as well - people have forgotten his real name so they call him with the name of his god metal. But this doesn't work because there are some, like Hoid, who lived back then and would remember.

On 30.09.2022 at 8:23 PM, SwordNimiForPresident said:

My theory then is this: Adonalsium is the name of a metal that was a manifestation of the power of a being known as Ado, Adonal, Adona or Adonai. The Shattering was achieved by figuring out how to break Adonalsium down into smaller components resulting in the aforementioned entities death, and the creation of the Shards, which were literal shards of the metal.

 

4 hours ago, trav said:

This rule does not apply here. The threads is still relevant which means there is legitimate reason to revive it. Its not outdated either.

Some would disagree, but I think that responding to a theory thread, even a year old and quiet, isn't wrong. Plus new information came up - TLM and Harmonium reaction.

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57 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Rayse wasn't killed by any god

Yes. Which isn't what I said. Rayse is also just the vessel, not the power itself. Rayse still got killed by another gods power.

Shards got splintered by other "gods". When vessels died they did so because the killers were guided by other gods. This does not apply to what happened to Adonalsium. There was but one god. 

59 minutes ago, alder24 said:

The original 16+1 had 4 Dawnshards and a dragon or two on their side, that's a looooot, and apparently that's enough.

Not a lot compared to the god who apparently created all of them

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

Also couldn't Adonalsium just allow Shattering to happen?

Another possibility. Almost a necessity if he was sentient.

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

Nature can't be killed, it's eternal

As is the power of Adonalsium. Even if it is splintered.

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

You don't call electromagnetism a god.

You can, and many do. In my opinion Nature is God.

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

we know investiture gains sentience if left alone long enough

Adonalsium should be the source, the creator, of Investiture. He is not made up of it. At least not that we know of.

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

But this power is still his

The point is that without access to the physical representation of him he is lacking something. He does not have access to his entire power. Even if just a fraction is missing.

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

it doesn’t affect its Shard

Then what would be the point of hiding it from him?

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

No, the theory is about Adonalsium being called like that, because that is what "Ado's" god metal was called

Yes you are right. I mixed this up with my own theory that there is no vessel at all.

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

Some would disagree

I certainly won't. A theory would only be outdated if it is proven false or correct.

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20 minutes ago, trav said:

Rayse still got killed by another gods power.

That can be said about everything - Adonalsium was killed by himself as all people were invested by him so he got killed by his own power. It doesn't make any sense as it's the amount of that power that matters.

22 minutes ago, trav said:

Shards got splintered by other "gods".

A Shard without any Vessel can Splinter itself:

Spoiler

Questioner

Can holders of Shards give them up voluntarily? If so, what would happen?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, a Vessel for a Shard of Adonalsium can give up their power if they wish.

As for what would happen...well, there are some variables in there. Kind of like the variables in what happens to a bucket of water if you dump it out. Depends on where it falls, how strong the wind is, what the air is like.

Power dropped like this, if left alone, could end up Splintering and turning into something like spren/seons. It could become something more like the Stormfather--a large, self-aware entity. It could become something like the Dor or many of the Unmade--something proto-aware, but not truly an individual. There are other possibilities as well, depending on lots of factors. (Are sapient beings involved? what is being done with the power--is it concentrated in the Spiritual Realm as normal, or is it being pushed somewhere else?)

FAQFriday 2017 (June 9, 2017)

 

24 minutes ago, trav said:

When vessels died they did so because the killers were guided by other gods. This does not apply to what happened to Adonalsium.

4 Dawnshards, primal Commands used to create everything, were used to undo Adonalsium. He wasn't "just" killed by "just" some people. Dawnshard ch 19:

Quote

And so, the Dawnshards. The four primal Commands that created all things.” He paused. “And then eventually, they were used to undo Adonalsium itself. . . ."

 

23 minutes ago, trav said:

There was but one god. 

Aethers and dragons would disagree. Aethers consider themselves as equal to Adonalsium. Dragons are worshiped as gods. 

Spoiler

Bumtown1

Is Adonalsium a unique being or are—were—there others?

Brandon Sanderson

RAFO! The aethers would say that there were lots. That there's like a bunch of aethers and Adonalsium. That they were co-equals. The aethers would say there were lots of them.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 5 (Dec. 2, 2022)

 

27 minutes ago, trav said:

Another possibility. Almost a necessity if he was sentient.

No, sentience has nothing to do with it, but the future sight has a lot - if he had it, he should see it coming, unless his future sight was clouded by another future sight, which is very likely - Odium's future sight was clouded by a mortal person's future sight, that mean they didn't need much to do the same with Adonalsium.

30 minutes ago, trav said:

Adonalsium should be the source, the creator, of Investiture. He is not made up of it. At least not that we know of.

Disagree. We know he created Cosmere, not the Universe itself - Cosmere is only a small star cluster, not even the entire galaxy. We don't know where investiture came from at all or if it reaches outside of Cosmere. And yes, Adonalsium WAS investiture, just like Shards are investiture. 

32 minutes ago, trav said:

The point is that without access to the physical representation of him he is lacking something. He does not have access to his entire power. Even if just a fraction is missing.

Every Shard can't access the entirety of their power, it's beyond their capabilities. Technically Atium is the power being used by Ruin constantly, he just can't repurpose it, but this is the power that his "mind is using". And the creation of god metal is the result of great Shardic investment in a world resulting in a leakage of investiture from Spiritual Realm into Physical Realm. It's always happening. A destruction of a god metal would either return investiture to its Shard or return it to the cycle making new god metal (what Kel did in the Pits). Shards can live with a fraction of them missing - Ruin was fine, Preservation was fine (before breaking the oath), Honor was fine, Cultivation is fine, Endowment is fine etc. Every Shard has a fraction of them "missing" and Adonalsium had it as well - it's just a tiny fraction incomparable to the amount he had. Destroying a drop of water doesn't destroy an ocean.

Spoiler

Questioner

For Adonalsium to create the universe, therefore he must have infinite power to create an infinitely sized universe. Therefore, infinity divided by sixteen is equal to infinity. Therefore, why don't the Shards have infinite power, which they clearly don't, because they can be killed?

Brandon Sanderson

The power can't be killed. The entity controlling the power can. Infinite power existing and being able to access the infinite power are different things, and a finite mind, even added to a very powerful sense of power, isn't necessarily able to tap all of that.

Questioner

What about Ruin and Preservation in Well of Ascension? We hear about Ruin using some of its power. Therefore, it must not have infinite power, because if you minus something from infinity, it's still infinity...

Brandon Sanderson

So, infinite power is changing forms. It's not going anywhere, right? So, the Investiture, the power, is becoming energy, which is doing work, which is being released back into the system. Nothing's growing or shrinking. It is simply changing forms, and potential energy is becoming kinetic.

Oathbringer London signing (Nov. 28, 2017)

 

Spoiler

Viper (paraphrased)

You said that the Pits are a leak from the Spiritual into the Physical—

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

A necessary leak.

[...]

A Memory of Light Milford Signing (Feb. 16, 2013)

 

Spoiler

BlackYeti

Can I ask you about the body of a Shard in the Physical Realm? About the different states of matter. What determines the state of matter that they are in? Because I've been reading the bits very carefully, and I haven't noticed much in terms of temperature difference.

Brandon Sanderson

The idea for me working on this was that they transcend-- They permeate everything, right? They permeate all life on all the Realms. And that there are manifestations of them that leak out, and it's kind of like they make-- they appear there in the various states but-- When you say that you've got the gas, you've got the liquid, you've got the solid: but you've also got inside of you, and inside of that plant, and like-- they're everywhere. And so what determines it? In my head it's just like when some of that power permeates, some of it distills, just like water. There's some water in the air, there's some that freezes: that's temperature. But it's not always temperature whether it's in the air, or whether it's falling. Imagine a Spiritual version of humidity, that is influenced by what's happening on the Spiritual Realm and the Cognitive, and that's what you'll get.

Manchester signing (Aug. 6, 2014)

 

45 minutes ago, trav said:

Then what would be the point of hiding it from him?

Because he could reabsorb it... But you doing anything with Atium doesn't affect Ruin (it's not about hiding it, but burning it, breaking it, combining it etc). No matter what you do with physical investiture it doesn't affect Shard itself.

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