Shardblade Mechanics

[CosmicShard8002]

Could you make a legit shardbow? Like make a bow out of the metal and shoot arrows of the same material? Huio in dawnshard throws his spear at the greatshell or whatever nd it keeps its form. And if this is possible why do shardblades have to form in your hand? Lopens first shardblade, also in dawnshard, forms as a dagger on his desk. If this is possible why don't the spren just fly above the enemy and form as a dagger and just fall through them? With this as a possibility why don't they just fly in their mouth and do the same?

[Quantus]

Spren cant manifest as two separate object without significant painful damage to their soul.  So they could be the Bow or the Arrow but not both, they cant manifest anything with actual moving parts (like a traditional gun), or matched dual-weilder sets of weapons.  

[The Bookwyrm]

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the.fulgid

How many spren would it take to make a Shardtrebuchet?

Brandon Sanderson

A Shardtrebuchet? Oh, trebuchet memes. But it could be done with one spren if it were the right spren.

I'm just going to throw this out here for discussion purposes.

[+Invocation]

1 minute ago, The Bookwyrm said:

I'm just going to throw this out here for discussion purposes.

That's probably a godspren thing, like how the Sibling is distributed via various Physical manifestations throughout Urithiru. Godspren are filthy cheaters >:(

[Anomander Rake]

Perhaps something similar to what happens with Radiant plate?  When the Knight is advanced enough, some windspren or logicspren homies or whatever your orders' lesser spren is make up the ammunition.

The bonded spren is the bow, the lesser spren are the arrows type deal.

Are lesser spren also of both Honor and Cultivation?  Cuz if so they'd also manifest as some variant of the same metal shardblades are currently, correct?

[Quantus]

 

1 hour ago, The Bookwyrm said:

I'm just going to throw this out here for discussion purposes.

Only thing I can think is that he was imagining more of an old-school flexing Catapult instead of a gravity-pivot trebuchet, given this old WOB.  

 

Quote

 

Questioner

On the nature of shardblades, to an extent, can a live blade be split without harming it's source, so to speak?

Brandon Sanderson

Can a live blade split? What do you mean, split?

Questioner

Make itself into two weapons.

Brandon Sanderson

Oh, can a blade be forged into two weapons. A shardblade.

Questioner

Does it absolutely need a connection, or can it become two?

Brandon Sanderson

So, shardblades becoming two shardblades would require slicing in half a soul, which would not be very fun for the spren. Okay?

Questioner

So it's possible. *laughter*

Brandon Sanderson

So it's technically possible to take hydrogen and to turn it into plutonium with our current technology. It would cost more money than, like, the budget of NASA to do it for, y'know, one atom. So there are things that are possible, but-- Yes it is possible. This is not something that would be easy or very useful to do.

Arcanum Unbounded San Francisco signing (Nov. 30, 2016)

 

 

 

39 minutes ago, Anomander Rake said:

Perhaps something similar to what happens with Radiant plate?  When the Knight is advanced enough, some windspren or logicspren homies or whatever your orders' lesser spren is make up the ammunition.

The bonded spren is the bow, the lesser spren are the arrows type deal.

Are lesser spren also of both Honor and Cultivation?  Cuz if so they'd also manifest as some variant of the same metal shardblades are currently, correct?

Tactically I think a Spren-Arrow makes way more sense, and a normal (or even Fabrial) Bow and the strength of Plate is probably all you need.  With the Radiant as a Spren-arrow it would do spiritual Shardblade damage and be able to poof to spren-form and return for repeated shots (assuming the spren is a type that can fly).  But Im not sure Plate-esk spren would get the spiritual damage aspect.  

[SpinningSky]

16 hours ago, CosmicShard8002 said:

Could you make a legit shardbow? Like make a bow out of the metal and shoot arrows of the same material? Huio in dawnshard throws his spear at the greatshell or whatever nd it keeps its form. And if this is possible why do shardblades have to form in your hand? Lopens first shardblade, also in dawnshard, forms as a dagger on his desk. If this is possible why don't the spren just fly above the enemy and form as a dagger and just fall through them? With this as a possibility why don't they just fly in their mouth and do the same?

The first point you bring up, was sort of discussed in a previous topic I belive.

The "simple solution" to that is that you could have the arrow being connected to the bow via some sort of chain, this would also allow (and would be a major application) for a Radiant to fight with both spear and shield at the same time, for instance.

Wether Spren can make such complex structures, such as a chain, up to the trebuchet, I think comes down to the Spren "awareness" and capability to make such complex structures, but I think Brandon is keeping is options open still:

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Questioner

*inaudible* with the spren, like, with the *inaudible* would it have infinite ink?

Brandon Sanderson

The way it works in my head canon right now, which I haven't written it so if it changes, no. The other thing is getting complex systems is going to be harder for a lot of Spren. There are legends that reference that they were able to do bows in the past, which includes a string. Everyone is like "but they're not metal, how does that work." Complex structures, even the mechanics of a pen is not something that we have proof that they could even do. If they did do it, they wouldn't have infinite ink, you would fill them up with ink.

Footnote: The question was likely about if Shardpens could exist
Barnes & Noble B-Fest 2016 (June 11, 2016)

 

The second thing you bring up I found quite troubling actually, you make a very good point. I honestly didn't pay atention to that detail for Lopen, but if it is the case that spren can materialize not being in contact with the Radiant, it would have a number of applications.

The only thing I think we can say, and probably must assume in order for radiants to not be overpowered, is that there is a limit to the distance and it might be tied to the strength of the bond, but it must be something that can happen only really close to the Radiant.

In the way "crazy" people interact with the congitive realm in the Cosmere, I wouldn't be surprised if Lopen was the one capable of doing something like that actually

 

 

[Rg2045]

Spren gun/bow is really interesting but imo ultimately useless. It’s just a unbreakable gun. Where as a spren bullet or arrow is awesome because it’s closer to shardblades and arrows especially are able to be shot within the acceptable range for a spren to leave their bond. Imagine sadeas killing the chasemfiend with one arrow when elocar fell off? Idk to me it sounds op

[Rabbit Unmade]

1 hour ago, Rg2045 said:

Spren gun/bow is really interesting but imo ultimately useless. It’s just a unbreakable gun. Where as a spren bullet or arrow is awesome because it’s closer to shardblades and arrows especially are able to be shot within the acceptable range for a spren to leave their bond. Imagine sadeas killing the chasemfiend with one arrow when elocar fell off? Idk to me it sounds op

Do we really know how much damage an arrow made of windspren would do though? It might be better because you would have unlimited arrows/bullets.

But I doubt that a non–Radiant spren could manifest as anything sharp enough to hurt anyone unless the Radiant was really talented. Sure, Kaladin can, but Kaladin is good at everything having to do with protecting. We don‘t know how well Jasah can command her Plate, and the Radiant‘s in Dalinar‘s visions didn‘t seem to use their Plate all that much, even though it would be really useful. Either they just aren‘t using because they want to get the ‚‘full experience‘ of the battle (Jasnah!) or they don‘t think they could move the spren well enough for it to be useful.

[Rg2045]

17 minutes ago, Rabbit Unmade said:

Do we really know how much damage an arrow made of windspren would do though? It might be better because you would have unlimited arrows/bullets.

But I doubt that a non–Radiant spren could manifest as anything sharp enough to hurt anyone unless the Radiant was really talented. Sure, Kaladin can, but Kaladin is good at everything having to do with protecting. We don‘t know how well Jasah can command her Plate, and the Radiant‘s in Dalinar‘s visions didn‘t seem to use their Plate all that much, even though it would be really useful. Either they just aren‘t using because they want to get the ‚‘full experience‘ of the battle (Jasnah!) or they don‘t think they could move the spren well enough for it to be useful.

I would think that it would function as an arrow would. Just like throwing your shard blade. 

[Rabbit Unmade]

5 minutes ago, Rg2045 said:

I would think that it would function as an arrow would. Just like throwing your shard blade. 

Kaladin can summon a lot of windspren. I think unlimited arrows/bullets you could pelt at your enemies would be pretty  storming good. You would have to wait for your Radiant spren to come back, but you have pretty much unlimited lesser spren, especially once they start coming back. Maybe have a lesser spren gun/bow and shoot out a Radiant arrow every once and a while, but while the spren is flying or coming back fire lesser spren.

Plus, I‘m pretty sure you can throw a Radiant blade, just not a deadeye blade. That‘s why Adolin could kind of throw Maya. Because the bond was kind of being fixed.

Edited September 29, 2022 by Rabbit Unmade

[CosmicShard8002]

On 9/29/2022 at 3:55 AM, SpinningSky said:

In the way "crazy" people interact with the congitive realm in the Cosmere, I wouldn't be surprised if Lopen was the one capable of doing something like that actually

Are you calling THE Lopen crazy gancho???  How could you?!?! He is the most normal, sane person to ever exist in fantasy.

[Mr. Misting]

I think it the best way to do this is just have an average non spren shardbow and have your spren be the ammunition. That way your spren can pierce through anything, and be summoned back to shoot again. We already know that current shardbows are crazy strong and stuff so would being a spren shardbow even be that much of a difference? This would also work with guns, just have your spren be a bullet and then shoot through any rusting thing you want.