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I am halfway through ROW and am so frustrated I feel I can’t continue if I don’t rant a bit


Almarenco

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I honestly don’t know who I’m more pissed off at. Lirin for being a self righteous ass, who is so obsessed with turning Kaladin into what he wants him to be, that he is unable to accept his son for the man he actually is, causing Kaladin ridiculous amounts of pain and grief in the process - this btw started as a kid, he screwed up his whole family (SPOILER WARNING FOR Way of Kings) stealing those spheres just so he could force teen Kaladin to pursue lirin’s dream of being a surgeon. He didn’t do that for Kaladin, he did it for his own selfish ass of a self. But, sometimes I thin what pisses me off most is tha fact that Jaladin won’t storming stand up for himself ONCE. I want him to kick Lirin’s ass at this point, he’s the worst piece of rust father ever, psychologically harming his CLINICALLY DEPRESSED SON WITH SEVERE PTSD on purpose just to manipulate him into doing what he wants, and Kaladin just takes it,. BTW how the hell is (Spoilers for ROW) Kaladin letting every soldier on the tower get slaughtered while he delivers storming towels not a breach of his storming oath to protect????? That’s even worse than what he did before that almost killed Syl? That’s so inconsistent. But finally, I think I am most pissed off at Brandon Sanderson, writing his characters into rehashing the same character arc, book after storming book, leaving Kaladin idle for the last two books btw, while he bulked up the page count with repetition and filler rust that bring no new information, doesn’t build character (repetitive dramatic beats over and over) and most importantly, doesn’t advance the story at all, making the character’s lack of progression, lack of change (until that magic moment in the last 100 pages when everyone conveniently figures out their rust at the same time) all the more painful to get through. For storms sake, you could cut 400 pages out of WOR and ROW each and not only not harm the books I’d argue they’d be better. storm, what’s most frustrating is that the core story, worlds and characters are so engaging (except Shallan and Lirin - they suck through and through), so storming phenomenal that you still want to get through to the end…. storm, these books are at the same time sooo freaking good, but also so storming annoying!!!! alright. Rant over, sorry for this, but now I feel better, and can perhaps continue reading XD

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9 hours ago, Almarenco said:

I honestly don’t know who I’m more pissed off at .  .  . Rant over, sorry for this, but now I feel better, and can perhaps continue reading XD

You are not the only one to feel this way. (link may have spoilers for the end of RoW)

Though, I think that it is important to note that while this type of character progression/regression seems annoying - it is quite realistic. For somebody like Kaladin struggling with depression; it is not only possible, but quite likely, that the progress made during WoR and OB (before going to Kholinar) would be set back by the events in Kholinar followed by a full year of almost non-stop combat.

I consider Lirin as bad as Sadeas, but not quite as bad as Moash. We can only hope that Lirin starts to recognize the damage he is causing and begins to improve as well.

Edited by Treamayne
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Another thing to consider is that depression is literally just being discovered. Or it might not even considering that kaladin is helping people with extreme ptsd. We know the proper treatment or at least that it’s serious. Lirin is literally just learning of it and is scared for his son. So what does he do? He pries on his sons weakness (not fulling knowing that it’s one of the worst things to do) to have him stay under his protection. 
as you might see I like lirin. He’s realistic. Sure he does things that hurt and on purpose, but he does it because he thinks it’s the best path. Also when he loses control of the situation he completely implodes. So yeah unpopular opinion but lirin is great.

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IMO Lirin is somewhere between Dalinar and Gavilar.  More actively abusive than Dalinar but without Gavilar's maliciousness and megalomania.  He's definitely not as bad as Moash or Sadeas. 

I 100% believe that Kaladin's 5th ideal will have to come after Lirin realizes what a cremling he's been and apologizes for being a self-righteous toolbag.  Kaladin needs his dad to tell him that it's OK to take care of himself, too. 

I disagree about Shallan sucking.  She's a mess, but who wouldn't be after that childhood? 

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17 hours ago, GroundPetrel said:

IMO Lirin is somewhere between Dalinar and Gavilar.  More actively abusive than Dalinar but without Gavilar's maliciousness and megalomania.  He's definitely not as bad as Moash or Sadeas. 

I 100% believe that Kaladin's 5th ideal will have to come after Lirin realizes what a cremling he's been and apologizes for being a self-righteous toolbag.  Kaladin needs his dad to tell him that it's OK to take care of himself, too. 

I disagree about Shallan sucking.  She's a mess, but who wouldn't be after that childhood? 

Dalinar was a horrible dad. Only ever cared about adolin (forgetting that Renarin existed at times) and was constantly at war for his own greed to feel the thrill, missing over half of his kids life’s. 
So yeah, lirin wanted kaladin to follow in his path of life a bit forcefully but he is a part of his sons life’s. He never drunkenly hated them. (Like Dalinar did to Renarin right before falling apart and crying in front of him) 

litterally lirin is the best dad in the series. Not understanding at all times but he’s like pacifist kaladin, and we know how unlikable kaladin can be at times to the people around him. 

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Lirin would be the best dad in the series if he shaped up a lot. 

Dalinar was just neglectful as far as his impact on Adolin and Renarin goes, and he has acknowledged that he neglected Renarin (though now he's more actively emotionally suppressive to Adolin, which he needs to shape up on).  They supported each other and came out mostly functional, in fact I would say that Renarin is basically emotionally healthy on a fundamental level and has good means of coping with a nightmarish situation, while Adolin's baggage manifests mostly as self-deprecation and reflexive kindness. 

Lirin is a domineering uncompromising ass who got one of his kids killed and emotionally abused the other (who's STILL messed up) in his pursuit of his dream of having a surgeon son. 

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Also, Dalinar isn't greedy, Dalinar's an addict and a workaholic who has trouble giving up control. 

(hmm, now that gives me a fanfic idea.  Thanks, Inner Navani.)

Adolin and Renarin grew up in the land of toxic masculinity being neglected by an addict.  They're two kids who grew up in a crack house surrounded by macho bullies.  Adolin grew up too fast by necessity and has a lot of baggage from that; Renarin is clearly really really smart and has enough inward-facing smarts to recognize how he and his brother are and train himself to function as an adult human being, something Adolin does not have.  Dalinar only started being a judgemental cremling to Adolin recently, because he's an insecure addict who's terrified of his kids going the same way. 

(I don't want to completely derail this thread, but the fundamental point is that Adolin and Renarin are screwed up in ways very different from how Kaladin is, because their father's mistreatment of them was just neglect rather than browbeating and hyper-judgementalism until quite recently). 

Lirin otoh spent Kaladin's entire childhood and adolescence telling him what to be, judging him harshly if he didn't conform to Lirin's narrow standards of appropriate behavior and interests, and got into a social conflict he had zero hope of winning against a man with far more power (legal and otherwise) than Lirin could ever hope to have, so that he could live vicariously through Kaladin.  Kaladin is still deeply messed up by this, and Lirin's stupid ego got Tien killed, which honestly hurt Kal even MORE. 

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RoW was a frustrating book for me too, for a lot of reasons, and especially including the pacing of character arcs. And Lirin, who was never my favorite character, is becoming (in my eyes) more intransigent. That is not great, even though I believe that his commitment to nonviolence was originally (and may still be) a deeply felt, carefully reasoned one. While he fell short in many ways many times, he loved his sons and tried his best his entire life to teach them what he felt they needed to know and to set them up for successful futures. I'm not sure I'd agree that he's an outright abusive parent, at least not in a way that leaves "abusive parent" with much meaning. Though I will 100% agree he's far from perfect.

I don't really like people dragging on Lirin this way. From his comments it's clear that he doesn't believe there is a maintainable dividing line you can draw between being a Kaladin (violence here and there, where you think it's appropriate, to support better ends) and being a Blackthorn, Sadeas, or Moash (unlimited violence whenever others are in your way or resist you for any reason). He certainly doesn't know all the details of history but he's obviously correct that millennia of violence, even by the "right" people with the "right" objectives and motivations, hasn't solved violence or evil. It's not unreasonable to resist the idea that the past's problem is that it was not violent enough. I'll paraphrase Shallan and say that he might be mistaken, and he might be misguided, but he's sincere and has the courage of his convictions.

I'll listen to the case if anyone wants to make it, but I think it's outrageous to say that he got one of his kids killed; even though Lirin was unpleasant initially and should have known to "act his station" (itself a gross injustice with a weasel like Roshone), Roshone spitefully conscripted Tien when he didn't have to, and a random officer in the field chose to use him as an insubstantial human shield. After their disastrous first meeting, what could Lirin have done that would have caused Roshone to behave better towards him? I honestly believe that a lot of the posters here on 17th Shard would have preferred Lirin just kill Roshone outright at the earliest opportunity, and would never question that that was an awesome choice. Killing a "bad" person is so direct and tidy, how could there ever be something wrong with it? I'm no Lirin, but I find that position disturbing and morally dangerous, although certainly people can make reasonable arguments in that direction.

We (mostly, at the 17th Shard) like Kaladin and wish there were more people like him on Roshar, but it seems clear that there are more people like Sadeas-- those who are similarly flexible in when, how, and why violence is applied, and who just bend it in ways that we independently label as "bad". Kaladin struggles with this, too, even though he generally feels that violence is sometimes unavoidable. Frankly, that it's generally immediately easier to kill than to do something else to address a problem or obstacle should give all Radiants pause, given the nature of their common oath.

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RAFO on Lirin, but he does get some light shed on his view of things later on in the book. But the gist of it is that Lirin is a broken man who is trying to protect who he loves in a broken way. In a very similar way to how Kaladin has trouble letting go of people and accepting their own decisions, Lirin has trouble letting Kaladin accept his choices, and it's worse because it's a son he's failed to protect once before. 

Lirin and Kaladin's disagreements are also fundamental to the core message of the story, or at least what I personally found the core message of the story to be in 2020. 

Personally, I find Lirin to be a bit more nuanced than what other people see. Maybe that's because I never disliked him (most of Kaladin's Oaths from the first two books are based off of what Lirin taught him after all), maybe it's because I never had to worry about having a relationship with my own father like one Kaladin has with Lirin - my father is my top fan and supporter in life, and he's the first person I go to when I'm troubled or have a problem. 

My point is that it's fine to hate Lirin, as I think doing so means that Sanderson did a good job in writing him. At the same time, I don't think that Lirin is a bad person or even a bad father overall. (And honestly, he's one of the best fathers Sanderson has written, despite the flaws...that being said, the bar for good fathers is pretty low...) Like Kaladin, he's on a journey, and it's far from over. 

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I can't remember who said this first, but part of Lirin's problem is that his pacifism is a very moral response to typical Alethi pointless conflict but doesn't work so well in the True Desolation.

I agree with @Returnedthat his nonviolence is a thought-out, honest, deep commitment. And up until a year and a few months ago it was a 100% correct one. The Alethi were first killing each other & their neighbors in pointless skirmishes, then fighting a bloody war supposedly for vengeance but in reality for wealth and glory.

The Alethi version of Vorinism sees war as the highest calling so they need to seek out excuses for war. That's *very* twisted and Lirin is absolutely right to reject it.

But once the Fused show up, not so much. As long as Odium is directing forces conflict is unavoidable, I think. Even if humans unconditionally surrendered and became the lowest class in the Singer hierarchy, Odium would find a way to spur more conflict. It's kind of what he does.

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There's a small chance that giving the spheres to Roshone (or not taking them in the first place) would have kept Roshone from sending the boys to war, but you need to remember that Roshone is a vindictive greedy manchild and events would likely have played out the same regardless (Roshone's son still gets mortally wounded by a whitespine, Lirin fails to save him, and Roshone decides to punish Lirin by sending his boys to war).

In survival situations, disagreeableness and stubbornness are often valuable traits -- because a highly agreeable person who lets selfish people walk all over them will be entirely reliant on the whims of the powerful and can't protect themselves or their loved ones. Had life in Alethkar continued as it had for the past few decades (and Roshone's son not been killed), Lirin's plan probably was the best bet for giving Kaladin a decent future.

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1 hour ago, cometaryorbit said:

Even if humans unconditionally surrendered and became the lowest class in the Singer hierarchy, Odium would find a way to spur more conflict. It's kind of what he does.

Odium would wait a generation then use angry humans on the bottom rung to find a nascent Kelsier expy, warp them to his side, and use them as a dark messiah to overthrow the Singer hierarchy while strategically weakening "his" own side, then turn it all into a genocide of singers, then flip back to the singers again a generation or two down the line, etc. 

Warping justified anger at oppression into mindless hate seems to me to have been a thing Rayse did a lot. 

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So perhaps this is not what anyone wants to hear, but it is a good thing to have bad people in books. And I'm not even talking about having villains. The truth is that no person has ever or will ever be truly good. We all hold each other to impossible standards. One of the main advantages books give us is the ability to practice liking people despite their faults. For example, as has been said in this thread, Dalinar has made a ton of mistakes and if you look at his past, he was a terrible person. Some threads have seen people saying he's unforgivably bad. Maybe he is. But people, myself included, like him. We can get to a point in life where because we don't know anything about people beyond how they treat us, we act as though their interactions with us are their whole life. Books let us see the whole lives of unlikable characters, and thus give us the opportunity to like them despite their faults. Its good practice.

Anyway, I'm not saying you have to like Lirin, or even that you should like RoW. That's all subjective. I think objectively its a good book, but that's a different and somewhat irrelevant matter. The point I'm trying to get to is, yeah, Lirin sucks. Kaladin repeating the same mistakes over and over again sucks. But those things might be more bearable if you consider what they mean about you and the people you interact with. If it doesn't help, feel free to forget everything I've said.

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3 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

I can't remember who said this first, but part of Lirin's problem is that his pacifism is a very moral response to typical Alethi pointless conflict but doesn't work so well in the True Desolation.

Here's that reference:

Quote

Lirin's POV/Frame of mind (non-specific spoilers for Lirin's characterization):

Spoiler

Lirin had to know that marriage to Laral was no longer an option as soon as Wistiow died. However. because he is a "My Opinion IS Fact" pacifist father, he uses mental and emotional abuse (especially in OB and RoW, but visible in TWoK on reread) to coerce the choice(s) he decides Kaladin should make. It's not that Lirin doesn't have points - but he absolutely refuses to acknowledge anybody else's (including Hesina) ideas and opinions (until her final interlude in RoW).

TV Tropes character page makes a great point here: In any normal war (especially Alethi border skirmishes), his stance and opinions would have considerable weight; but they are painfully naive during the True Desolation.

To him, becoming a Surgeon was the only correct choice, and Kal failed him. We'll see if the improvements at the end of RoW actually stick.

 

6 hours ago, Returned said:

I'll listen to the case if anyone wants to make it, but I think it's outrageous to say that he got one of his kids killed;

I agree. It's a far stretch to claim he is responsible for Tien's death (even if he seems to blame himself - much as Kaladin does). There are many things of which Lirin is guilty, this just isn't one of them.

26 minutes ago, HSuperLee said:

So perhaps this is not what anyone wants to hear, but it is a good thing to have bad people in books. And I'm not even talking about having villains.

Exactly. It also allows us to have discussions like this and learn about other sets of morals and values. I'm glad Lirin is in the book, I just don't like him.

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People actually found Lirin abusive?

I found Lirin a stand up father, who in any other time than now would be completely right.

He has high expectations for his children, but what good parent doesn't?

He critiques some choices they make but ultimately he supports them, otherwise he would never have gone along with Kaladin's plan to sneak the Mink into the city.

He fought exactly once with Kaladin, which is completely normal, especially as children begin to leave home.

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On 9/23/2022 at 9:27 PM, Almarenco said:

I honestly don’t know who I’m more pissed off at. Lirin for being a self righteous ass, who is so obsessed with turning Kaladin into what he wants him to be, that he is unable to accept his son for the man he actually is, causing Kaladin ridiculous amounts of pain and grief in the process - this btw started as a kid, he screwed up his whole family (SPOILER WARNING FOR Way of Kings) stealing those spheres just so he could force teen Kaladin to pursue lirin’s dream of being a surgeon. He didn’t do that for Kaladin, he did it for his own selfish ass of a self. But, sometimes I thin what pisses me off most is tha fact that Jaladin won’t storming stand up for himself ONCE. I want him to kick Lirin’s ass at this point, he’s the worst piece of rust father ever, psychologically harming his CLINICALLY DEPRESSED SON WITH SEVERE PTSD on purpose just to manipulate him into doing what he wants, and Kaladin just takes it,. BTW how the hell is (Spoilers for ROW) Kaladin letting every soldier on the tower get slaughtered while he delivers storming towels not a breach of his storming oath to protect????? That’s even worse than what he did before that almost killed Syl? That’s so inconsistent. But finally, I think I am most pissed off at Brandon Sanderson, writing his characters into rehashing the same character arc, book after storming book, leaving Kaladin idle for the last two books btw, while he bulked up the page count with repetition and filler rust that bring no new information, doesn’t build character (repetitive dramatic beats over and over) and most importantly, doesn’t advance the story at all, making the character’s lack of progression, lack of change (until that magic moment in the last 100 pages when everyone conveniently figures out their rust at the same time) all the more painful to get through. For storms sake, you could cut 400 pages out of WOR and ROW each and not only not harm the books I’d argue they’d be better. storm, what’s most frustrating is that the core story, worlds and characters are so engaging (except Shallan and Lirin - they suck through and through), so storming phenomenal that you still want to get through to the end…. storm, these books are at the same time sooo freaking good, but also so storming annoying!!!! alright. Rant over, sorry for this, but now I feel better, and can perhaps continue reading XD

Got to disagree on almost every point Lirin is one of my favorite characters and his not a bad father. 

Edited by bmcclure7
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  • 3 months later...

Honestly I just don’t get how people could consider Lirin a good father. He repeatedly chose the people of this curse forsaken village of Hearthstone over the safety of his family. That’s like the one job of a parent and he failed miserably. He is so judgmental [removed by moderator]
 

storm u Lirin cordialement 

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On 1/10/2023 at 3:08 PM, utopian said:

Honestly I just don’t get how people could consider Lirin a good father. He repeatedly chose the people of this curse forsaken village of Hearthstone over the safety of his family. That’s like the one job of a parent and he failed miserably. He is so judgmental [removed by moderator]
 

storm u Lirin cordialement 

Give me one example of him choose the village over his family. Being judgmental is not necessarily a bad thing.  And even if it was there are a lot worse traits in a father trust me. 

As for why his is a good father 

1. He taught Kaladin to do what is right even when world opposes you 

2.to do good even to those you hate.

3. Taught him a useful skill that has saved untold numbers of lives.

4. Puts the future of his son above his own personal comfort. 

Edited by bmcclure7
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 12/01/2023 at 5:24 PM, bmcclure7 said:

Give me one example of him choose the village over his family. Being judgmental is not necessarily a bad thing.  And even if it was there are a lot worse traits in a father trust me. 

As for why his is a good father 

1. He taught Kaladin to do what is right even when world opposes you 

2.to do good even to those you hate.

3. Taught him a useful skill that has saved untold numbers of lives.

4. Puts the future of his son above his own personal comfort. 

I don’t have the best memory and I am no cosmere expert BUT :

1. when the townspeople literally tried to break into his home ?

2. Or the time he admits that they could leave but he choses to stay « rambling about the link between a man and his town » 

3. Or not charging for his work putting himself in the situation to need to steal in the first place. 

4. Or the fact that he still lives in this forsaken place after THEY cost him his two sons. (Tbf I don’t put that on him being a bad parent just generally spineless ) 

5. I will admit I do some projecting because I got soo mad at those townspeople as they are the worst and they don’t deserve Kal’s family (Lirin included) 

Also how does he put his son above himself ?

he only wants Kal to conform to HIS ideals 

he could have let go of his no charges principal for his sons he did not. He could have moved out but again same thing. 
 

Actually what is one decision where Lirin chose to actually take care of his family ? 
There is such a thing as being selfless to a fault and I am not so sure that describes him quite well. 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, utopian said:

1. when the townspeople literally tried to break into his home ?

I'm not sure what you're trying to prove here.

4 minutes ago, utopian said:

2. Or the time he admits that they could leave but he choses to stay « rambling about the link between a man and his town »

And where would he go?

Sure he can practice just about anywhere, but how many places both lack a surgeon, and are able to support one? Especially since he refuses payment, very few places would actually work out.

6 minutes ago, utopian said:

3. Or not charging for his work putting himself in the situation to need to steal in the first place.

He didn't need to steal, his family was pretty well taken care of, they had a constant supply of food, and permanent shelter.

8 minutes ago, utopian said:

4. Or the fact that he still lives in this forsaken place after THEY cost him his two sons. (Tbf I don’t put that on him being a bad parent just generally spineless )

They did, or Roshone did?

And it's still his home.

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14 minutes ago, utopian said:

I don’t have the best memory and I am no cosmere expert BUT :

1. when the townspeople literally tried to break into his home ?

2. Or the time he admits that they could leave but he choses to stay « rambling about the link between a man and his town » 

3. Or not charging for his work putting himself in the situation to need to steal in the first place. 

4. Or the fact that he still lives in this forsaken place after THEY cost him his two sons. (Tbf I don’t put that on him being a bad parent just generally spineless ) 

5. I will admit I do some projecting because I got soo mad at those townspeople as they are the worst and they don’t deserve Kal’s family (Lirin included) 

I think that he just considers the village as part of his family. He talks about how he feels a bond with them after healing their injuries and delivering their babies. He knows that they are misguided and ignorant, but he believes that is exactly why he needs to stay. He raises both of his children in a loving home, and teaches them a strong moral code. He believes in sacrifice and helping others. He does project a lot of that onto his children and lived a little through Kaladin, but he had good intentions. He is probably one of if not the best parents in the entire cosmere. His moral code and Kaladin's moral code start to fall apart in RoW, and that hurts him. 

He loves his children and wants them to be the best they can be. 

He firmly believes in his moral code.

Yes he is a bit overbearing and disrespectful, but so is Kaladin.

Edited by Primeival Chaos
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6 hours ago, utopian said:

I don’t have the best memory and I am no cosmere expert BUT :

1. when the townspeople literally tried to break into his home ?

2. Or the time he admits that they could leave but he choses to stay « rambling about the link between a man and his town » 

3. Or not charging for his work putting himself in the situation to need to steal in the first place. 

4. Or the fact that he still lives in this forsaken place after THEY cost him his two sons. (Tbf I don’t put that on him being a bad parent just generally spineless ) 

5. I will admit I do some projecting because I got soo mad at those townspeople as they are the worst and they don’t deserve Kal’s family (Lirin included) 

Also how does he put his son above himself ?

he only wants Kal to conform to HIS ideals 

he could have let go of his no charges principal for his sons he did not. He could have moved out but again same thing. 
 

Actually what is one decision where Lirin chose to actually take care of his family ? 
There is such a thing as being selfless to a fault and I am not so sure that describes him quite well. 

 

 

 

  Addressing your accusations of him putting the village over his son.

1. Are you referring to the time where he stood between the townspeople and his family armed with nothing but words?  Probably his most heroic moment.  I don't see why you have a problem with this

2. At that time the people of the town and Roshon are only abusing him not his children. So it's his decision about whether or not you want to stay or leave. Kalidin  And  His brother don't factor into it because they're not at risk at that point.

 

3.  He can't see the future, He can't change the cast system, Cant make his eyes bright,  He needed or felt like he needed to steal Because it's bright Lord died,  I don't see why you think this is his fault.

 

4. I fail to see how changing jobs would have changed anything for Kalidin.

 

Part 2

 

Addressing your accusations of him putting himself over his son.

 1. He wants his son to conform to his ideals,  I fail to see how this is putting himself before Kalidin, weak and selfish fathers Have no expectations for their children have no standards they push them towards. That's the easy path the path of no resistance the path of Selfishness.

 

True on selflessness is strive to teach your children the ideals you've learned from life. This is the parents job, I don't see how this reflection is selfishness, If anything it makes him one of the better fathers.

Tell me do you also consider a dalinar to be selfish because he makes his sons follow the code? That's also an ideal that he has that his sons don't

2.  I fail to see how giving up his principles would have changed anything.  If you're referring to killing Roshon,  Let me remind you that Lyrn cannot see the future.  At that point the bright Lord had only persecuted Him and his wife.  He had no reason to believe that Roshon was about to change things.   When he does start targeting his sons it comes out of complete shock to him. 

 

It's true killing him may have saved both his sons. But Lirin did not know that.

 3.There also is no such thing as being    Selfless to a fault. 

 

And even if there was the very fact that you consider this to be a trate of lirin  Disproves your whole point about him being selfish and putting his family  Behind himself.

Which one is it? Is he selfish or selfish make up your mind. 

 

Part 3. Lirin putting his family over himself

1.  For starters when he refused to give up the sphears,  He could have saved himself years of persecution. All he had to do was Give up the one chance his son had for a better of future. 

 

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13 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

He needed or felt like he needed to steal Because it's bright Lord died,  I don't see why you think this is his fault.

Do you try to justify Lirin stealing? 

I don't think Lirin is selfish or is putting townspeople above his family. It's the opposite in my opinion. Everything Lirin did, even stealing, was with his sons best interest in mind. However Lirin forced Kaladin to conform to his ideal, to his life goals, to his wishes, ignoring what Kaladin wanted and what makes him happy. He failed to accept the fact that Kaladin is different, and that Kaladin should be different to be happy. It took 4 books for Lirin to realize that Kaladin can be someone else and have his own ideals and life goals, and Lirin still can love him for who Kal is.

I think Lirin was more disappointed in Kal joining the army than he was frightened that Tien was drafted. Then he was disappointed and shattered in RoW that Kal decided to kill and fight. That was frustrating to read but it was necessary in my opinion. Having that kind of conflict is much more valuable for both characters and their development, and much more engaging. But despite that, Lirin still IS a good father (one of the best in Cosmere), he just needed time to realize that Kaladin is grown up now, can chose his own path, and that Lirin still loves him for being his son, no matter what Kal choses. And that was a great journey.

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