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ChadSail

shadows of self
Who is the Lady Truth?

Question

I noticed in Shadows of Self, talking about the mythology/history of the Founders, a reference to Lady Truth. Unless I missed it, I didn’t find that “Lady Truth” in the Coppermind. Do we have a confirmation as to whom that referra?

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I'm fairly certain that is a reference to Tindwyl. I just checked the Coppermind and I see no conformation for this, but with the four or so female characters in Era 1 this makes the most sense to me.

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That was my guess, but I assumed somebody had confirmed it by now

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I guess I always thought it was Allrianne for some reason, but Tindwyl works too. 

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I have no idea, but Devil's Advocate statement is that those era1 folks are collectively referred to as the Originators, so Founders might be a different group despite the Words of Founding covering that era.  

 

The only other actual option I can think of is that the Founders are the First Generation Kandra, the only ones ever to be born Human.  

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Sorry, my mistake in terminology. I should have said she showed up in a list of several of the "Originators" rather than the "Founders"

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I was debating between Allrianne and Tindwyl, but I noticed in the Tindwyl Coppermind article it calls out that "She is also very perceptive and quick to see the truth of people...." That makes me lean her direction. That article has a "Legacy" section where it notes that 'Tindwyl is remembered as one of the Preservers and is given the epithet "Mother of Terris."' Would it be appropriate to mention there that she may also be the person referred to as "Lady Truth" in Shadows of Self? Although I have listened to ShardCast for years, I haven't spent that much time on Coppermind and am not sure the protocol for suggesting that change to whoever owns that article.

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8 hours ago, ChadSail said:

I was debating between Allrianne and Tindwyl, but I noticed in the Tindwyl Coppermind article it calls out that "She is also very perceptive and quick to see the truth of people...." That makes me lean her direction. That article has a "Legacy" section where it notes that 'Tindwyl is remembered as one of the Preservers and is given the epithet "Mother of Terris."' Would it be appropriate to mention there that she may also be the person referred to as "Lady Truth" in Shadows of Self? Although I have listened to ShardCast for years, I haven't spent that much time on Coppermind and am not sure the protocol for suggesting that change to whoever owns that article.

Don't use Coppermind as original research. This can be edited by anyone. We try to make it very well cited and accurate, but they themselves are not book quotes. Also, no one owns particular pages.

Still, we generally do not allow speculation on the wiki, so I would not say that is appropriate.

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Here's the WoB:

Spoiler

chasmfriend

Who is Lady Truth?

Brandon Sanderson

Well, who do you think Lady Truth is?

chasmfriend

Tindwyl is who I hope it is. *long silence* Why is that a secret?

Brandon Sanderson

Because there are certain things I am not sure how much more I want to say in the books, or how much things-- So it's not that it needs to be a secret or something big and mysterious is happening, but it's because if I speak now I risk undermining things that I might do and I don't want to risk that even if there's a decent chance that whatever I say won't have anything to do with it. So a lot of times my RAFO's are "I know the answer to this, it's not a big secret, but I am not ready to just pin it down". Does that make sense? You've already pried a couple important things out of me so...

Personally, I always thought it was Beldre, mostly because:

  • The Founders were those alive during the Catacendre
  • Tindwyl was not (and already had the Mother of Terris appellation)
  • Beldre would have been the wife of the "Lord Mistborn," and we have no other appellation for her
  • Truth and Allrianne seem to be antonyms to me

The other possibility I considered was Mare, since she could be considered an Originator (if not a Founder) and her vision of returning Scadrial to blue skies, green foliage and flowers became truth.

SoS Ch 19

Spoiler

Wax pushed the door shut as the two constables started arguing outside about whether they should stop him or not. He scanned the open foyer, with its murals of the Originators. Hammond, the Lord Mistborn, Lady Truth, Wax’s own ancestor Edgard Ladrian. Portly and self-satisfied, in his portrait he held a cup of wine. He’d always looked like the sort of person Wax would want to punch on sight. The type who was certainly guilty of something.

BoM Ch 13:

Spoiler

Wax stopped near the alcove the informant, Devlin, occupied. The man was watching the nearby fish tank, which stood beneath a depiction of Tindwyl, Mother of Terris, perched on the walls during her last stand against the darkness. In the tank, tiny octopuses moved across the glass.

 

Edited by Treamayne
Quotes
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On 9/20/2022 at 7:46 PM, Treamayne said:

Here's the WoB:

  Reveal hidden contents

chasmfriend

Who is Lady Truth?

Brandon Sanderson

Well, who do you think Lady Truth is?

chasmfriend

Tindwyl is who I hope it is. *long silence* Why is that a secret?

Brandon Sanderson

Because there are certain things I am not sure how much more I want to say in the books, or how much things-- So it's not that it needs to be a secret or something big and mysterious is happening, but it's because if I speak now I risk undermining things that I might do and I don't want to risk that even if there's a decent chance that whatever I say won't have anything to do with it. So a lot of times my RAFO's are "I know the answer to this, it's not a big secret, but I am not ready to just pin it down". Does that make sense? You've already pried a couple important things out of me so...

Personally, I always thought it was Beldre, mostly because:

  • The Founders were those alive during the Catacendre
  • Tindwyl was not (and already had the Mother of Terris appellation)
  • Beldre would have been the wife of the "Lord Mistborn," and we have no other appellation for her
  • Truth and Allrianne seem to be antonyms to me

The other possibility I considered was Mare, since she could be considered an Originator (if not a Founder) and her vision of returning Scadrial to blue skies, green foliage and flowers became truth.

SoS Ch 19

  Hide contents

Wax pushed the door shut as the two constables started arguing outside about whether they should stop him or not. He scanned the open foyer, with its murals of the Originators. Hammond, the Lord Mistborn, Lady Truth, Wax’s own ancestor Edgard Ladrian. Portly and self-satisfied, in his portrait he held a cup of wine. He’d always looked like the sort of person Wax would want to punch on sight. The type who was certainly guilty of something.

BoM Ch 13:

  Reveal hidden contents

Wax stopped near the alcove the informant, Devlin, occupied. The man was watching the nearby fish tank, which stood beneath a depiction of Tindwyl, Mother of Terris, perched on the walls during her last stand against the darkness. In the tank, tiny octopuses moved across the glass.

 

With the quotes I think it is clearly alleriane

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I agree with you that this shows Lady Truth is clearly not TIndwyl. Is the confidence level in this identification high enough to add a mention to the Coppermind article about Alleriane? Or would we need a WOB for that? The wording listing Lord and Lady together would add to the evidence. Would she be Lady Truth because she somehow helped Lord Mistborn see the truth? She certainly was the opposite in their earlier encounters, but misleading about who (her or her brother) was a misting and then about her intent in coming to them only to betray them. That is why I struggled confirming her as Lady Truth unless Brandon meant to emphasize that the reputations were divergent from or even opposite to the real stories.

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