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Chaos

Lost Metal Prologue through Ch 2 Reactions

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Compared to the prior reading we learn that Waxillium is outmanouvered and the imperialist bill is passed. I would like to see a connection with the Set, but I am afraid the support can be explained with economic interests and hunger for power.

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7 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Compared to the prior reading we learn that Waxillium is outmanouvered and the imperialist bill is passed. I would like to see a connection with the Set, but I am afraid the support can be explained with economic interests and hunger for power.

It's something that will benefit the Set's goal of overthrowing the central government in the basin by stirring up unrest in the outskirts against Elendel. Or at least that seemed to be a goal of theirs before the faceless immortal told Suit that they wanted to wipe out life on the planet now. Unclear if the leadership of the Set (whoever they all are) is still pursuing their older goals or if Trell has changed their plan. I agree not  everybody can be in on it a lot of people probably voted for it out of economic interest and power as you say. 

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14 hours ago, Child of Hodor said:

It's something that will benefit the Set's goal of overthrowing the central government in the basin by stirring up unrest in the outskirts against Elendel. Or at least that seemed to be a goal of theirs before the faceless immortal told Suit that they wanted to wipe out life on the planet now. Unclear if the leadership of the Set (whoever they all are) is still pursuing their older goals or if Trell has changed their plan.

You are raising a point. What good is a civil war in the Basin if you want everybody dead? In last consequence the likely outcome seems to be a southern win, not universal death. So what is the plan?

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Prologue - loved a good Wayne opener. This story is such a good one to relisten on audiobook and hear all the accents. It was both sad and sweet to hear why Wayne's so good with voices 

Ch. 1 - Time skip! I'm a fan of the six year jump and absolutely love that Marasi and Wayne are partners in law enforcement. Will have to wait and see what MeLaans up to, but clearly this is setting up something else romantic for Wayne, but what? That he should go with MeLaan on the mission? That Wayne will go immortal too?? We'll learn something about platonic relationships with him & Marasi? 

Ch. 2 - I agree with y'all's thoughts. If the Set wants war though, it's gotta be a chaos thing. Maybe helps them get what they want during the chaos, or the end goal is a lack of structure. Seems like the opposite of Harmony which might weaken Sazed?

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I dislike the term imperialist when in regards to the bill, it implies that the outer cities are different countries rather than the same one. Which isn't the case because Elendel has tax power over them and they describe conflict as a civil war.

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6 hours ago, Frustration said:

I dislike the term imperialist when in regards to the bill, it implies that the outer cities are different countries rather than the same one. Which isn't the case because Elendel has tax power over them and they describe conflict as a civil war.

I kinda agree, I think 'absolutist' or 'hegemonic' would be better descriptors. But then again, maybe the outer cities do see themselves as almost different city states and Wax is using this word in the context of the way they feel, so it could be justified.

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6 hours ago, Frustration said:

I dislike the term imperialist when in regards to the bill, it implies that the outer cities are different countries rather than the same one.

That is exactly how the Outer Cities see themselves. They are politically independent of Elendel. The continuation of that state of affairs is the point of conflict.

6 hours ago, Frustration said:

Which isn't the case because Elendel has tax power over them and they describe conflict as a civil war.

Elendel has power over the railways and the river and immense informal power, but Elendel cannot tax citizens of Bilming or New Serran at home.

The issue is hopelessly muddled by them until very recently not knowing the concept of a foreign ethnicity in a real sense. They know Koloss, but they are a different species. It was a thing from historical records and fiction. So they see themselves as one ethnicity precluding ethnic nationalism. I guess the best paralell to Earth would be ancient Greece, whose states absolutely saw each other as different countries and went to war against each other, but did recognize a common ethnicity.

Even the proposed bill would not erase the distinction. It just turns them from formally equal states into one ruling state and a lot of subjected states.

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I was surprised there was no mention of Allik so far: I expected him and Marasi to get together within the six years that have passed between books. It seemed reasonable that he would return to Elendel with one of the expeditions and there was strong foreshadowing for their relationship in the previous book. Maybe we will get to see it on screen instead.

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19 minutes ago, Yuliya said:

I was surprised there was no mention of Allik so far: I expected him and Marasi to get together within the six years that have passed between books. It seemed reasonable that he would return to Elendel with one of the expeditions and there was strong foreshadowing for their relationship in the previous book. Maybe we will get to see it on screen instead.

Would you take him on your crew? His captain just needed to write a truthful report and most captains would consider him unreliable for personal reasons.

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8 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Would you take him on your crew? His captain just needed to write a truthful report and most captains would consider him unreliable for personal reasons.

I think it depends on the intentions of your expeditions. If I were trying to establish a friendly relationship with an unknown nation, I would consider it wise to bring along someone who 1) had spent a lot of time among the representatives of the said nation and therefore is capable of providing insight into their culture; 2) is a friend of a senator and his wife, along with a local law officer and a noblewoman. I would not bring such an individual with me if I intended to escalate tensions with the other nation, since his stories about their rescue of him and conversations over hot cocoa may make it harder to see the opponent as a threat.

Since we do not see an open conflict between the continents yet, I don't think his potential friendliness is the reason we didn't hear of Allik yet.

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Before this I had only read the prologue. 

I like the time skip but I think it is weird that we have had 6 years pass and Wayne and MeLaan have apparently been dating all this time up until very recently. I dunno this just seemed like a "fling" to me in the last book. It feels like if they have been together this long they should have been married. Not for any moral reasons obviously that ship sailed in the last book but it just seems weird to me they would just "date" this long. 

On the other hand I love the time skip for Wax and Steris. Awesome to me they seem to be happy (all things considered) and they have two kids! As far as the political tension I think it is interesting but again feeling a bit of disconnect with what has taken place in the past 6 years. It just seems like a long ramp up time I would have thought more would have developed between the basin and southern governments but may just be missing a lot of context this early on so I will hold judgment. 

I am pretty hyped by the blurb and this book. I's the bitter sweet feeling though knowing this era will end. When I first read AoL years ago I was sure I wouldn't like it because of the "western steam punk" setting just not my thing. I was completely wrong and the characters in this era have been some of my favorites. When you add in all the Cosmere implications this era is just awesome. 

 

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9 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Elendel has power over the railways and the river and immense informal power, but Elendel cannot tax citizens of Bilming or New Serran at home.

Yes they can. It's mentioned in Bands of Mourning that Elendel taxes the outer cities.

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What do y'all think of Wax's recommendation for the government (that he lost on)? More like a United Nations or EU approach right? Should half the Senate seats still be based on nobility?

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11 hours ago, StormingTexan said:

I like the time skip but I think it is weird that we have had 6 years pass and Wayne and MeLaan have apparently been dating all this time up until very recently. I dunno this just seemed like a "fling" to me in the last book. It feels like if they have been together this long they should have been married. Not for any moral reasons obviously that ship sailed in the last book but it just seems weird to me they would just "date" this long. 

 

I've known quite a few couples in real life that have been together for years without getting married. Wayne and MeLaan dating that long doesn't seem all that unlikely to me.

Also, perhaps MeLaan feels that marriage to a short-lived human would be a bad idea. Watching your spouse grow old and die in what would be a short time from your perspective would be pretty painful.

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14 hours ago, Frustration said:

Yes they can. It's mentioned in Bands of Mourning that Elendel taxes the outer cities.

Yes and no. The quote:
 

Quote

By outer cities argument, that means we're taxing them twice. First by our levies to maintain the railway lines, then a second time by making them pass everything through us.

Elendel charges the outer cities for being connected to the rail network. But it does not charge individual citizens of other cities.

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11 hours ago, Johnny Silverlight said:

I've known quite a few couples in real life that have been together for years without getting married. Wayne and MeLaan dating that long doesn't seem all that unlikely to me.

Also, perhaps MeLaan feels that marriage to a short-lived human would be a bad idea. Watching your spouse grow old and die in what would be a short time from your perspective would be pretty painful.

Sure in modern times but as an analog in this time period seems odd to me especially considering Wayne would be in late 30s. I agree on the second point but mainly because I think them dating this long in general is odd of course Wayne has been looking for love in all the wrong places. I'm not exactly sure why it is so odd to me just seems unlikely they went from flings on a train to dating seriously for 6 years off screen but nothing further. 

Edited by StormingTexan
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On 9/23/2022 at 7:25 AM, StormingTexan said:

Sure in modern times but as an analog in this time period seems odd to me especially considering Wayne would be in late 30s. I agree on the second point but mainly because I think them dating this long in general is odd of course Wayne has been looking for love in all the wrong places. I'm not exactly sure why it is so odd to me just seems unlikely they went from flings on a train to dating seriously for 6 years off screen but nothing further. 

I like your point about the time period but you are making the point to the wrong people. Sure it is conventional for people for get married in this time but Wayne and MeLann are so removed from society's conventions. MeLaan is a quirky 600 year old immortal and Wayne's favorite pastime is ignoring logic and social norms.

Edited by Mr. Misting
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3 hours ago, Mr. Misting said:

I like your point about the time period but you are making the point to the wrong people. Sure it is conventional for people for get married in this time but Wayne and MeLann are so removed from society's conventions. MeLaan is a quirky 600 year old immortal and Wayne's favorite pastime is ignoring logic and social norms.

Couldn't agree more, but imagining that wedding could be fun, considering the bride's family. Do you think Harmony would have to give her away? :rolleyes:

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On 25.9.2022 at 2:05 AM, Mr. Misting said:

I like your point about the time period but you are making the point to the wrong people. Sure it is conventional for people for get married in this time but Wayne and MeLann are so removed from society's conventions. MeLaan is a quirky 600 year old immortal and Wayne's favorite pastime is ignoring logic and social norms.

What makes you think that Kandra actually do marriage? They are an alien species, albeit derived from man. In terms of behavior human pair bonding is likely to come from a need to raise very immature children. Kandra do not have this issue.

They may pretend to be married to fit in, but that is just that and for Wayne to fit in is futile.

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2 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

What makes you think that Kandra actually do marriage? They are an alien species, albeit derived from man. In terms of behavior human pair bonding is likely to come from a need to raise very immature children. Kandra do not have this issue.

They may pretend to be married to fit in, but that is just that and for Wayne to fit in is futile.

I mean why would they date for that matter?  Especially long term like this and not part of a disguise (at least that we know of). 

 

On 9/24/2022 at 7:05 PM, Mr. Misting said:

I like your point about the time period but you are making the point to the wrong people. Sure it is conventional for people for get married in this time but Wayne and MeLann are so removed from society's conventions. MeLaan is a quirky 600 year old immortal and Wayne's favorite pastime is ignoring logic and social norms.

Fair point. I see it more on her side. I think Wayne is looking for someone to settle down with though he is looking for love in all the wrong places. First Ranette and now MeLann secretly hoping his and Marasi's partnership evolves in to something more but probably a long shot. 

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1 hour ago, StormingTexan said:

Fair point. I see it more on her side. I think Wayne is looking for someone to settle down with though he is looking for love in all the wrong places. First Ranette and now MeLann secretly hoping his and Marasi's partnership evolves in to something more but probably a long shot. 

I'm also trying to figure out what Brandon is broadcasting here by starting the book with Wayne's mother dying in a way outside her control, and then MeLaan potentially leaving due to something outside her control (Harmony we assume). "The people I love always leave me"? 

Maybe Wayne is meant to follow MeLaan this time. I think Marasi ends the story going South / going on her own crazy adventure a la Wax in the Roughs. Though rereading the books I see the Wayne/Marasi long shot angle as something I think we're maybe meant to see as this "could have happened if things were more normal around here". 

For reference, Book 1&2 started with Lessie prologues and Wax thinking about being forced into a marriage in high society, and end with him making steps forward with Steris. 

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On 9/23/2022 at 0:55 AM, Oltux72 said:

Yes and no. The quote:
 

Elendel charges the outer cities for being connected to the rail network. But it does not charge individual citizens of other cities.

"We only tax them a little, to maintain infrastructure and government." -BoM 99.

This is not referring to the tariffs Elendel imposes as Steris adds those as an additional tax later in the page. Additionally this is an ongoing taxation, as it is for railroad maintenance, not just connection.

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