Munazir

I am currently reading Oathbringer and I have a question

7 posts in this topic

“What is happening?” Szeth asked.
“We will carry you to the place of the test,” Ki said, “as you cannot move with your own Stormlight until you swear the Second Ideal.”
 
If this is the case how come Elokhar, Shallan Kaladin were able to glow with Stormlight before swearing the Second Ideal. I thought the second ideal gave them their blades

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The Skybreakers are one of the only orders of Radiant (along with Dustbringers) that restricts their abilities until they swear the correct amount of oaths. The first oath- life before death, strength before weakness, journey before destination- qualifies hopeful Skybreakers to be a squire to one of the higher ranked Radiants. The second ideal allows one to breathe in stormlight and use the surge of gravitation. This only happens when you are accepted as a squire by a 4th ideal Radiant. The third ideal makes you a full Skybreaker with access to the surge of division. The fourth ideal makes you a master and allows you to get squires of your own. The fifth ideal is an oath that you will become the personification of law and order. Nale is currently the only Skybreaker to swear this ideal (that we know of).

Hope that helps!

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1 hour ago, Primeval Chaos said:

The Skybreakers are one of the only orders of Radiant (along with Dustbringers) that restricts their abilities until they swear the correct amount of oaths. The first oath- life before death, strength before weakness, journey before destination- qualifies hopeful Skybreakers to be a squire to one of the higher ranked Radiants. The second ideal allows one to breathe in stormlight and use the surge of gravitation. This only happens when you are accepted as a squire by a 4th ideal Radiant. The third ideal makes you a full Skybreaker with access to the surge of division. The fourth ideal makes you a master and allows you to get squires of your own. The fifth ideal is an oath that you will become the personification of law and order. Nale is currently the only Skybreaker to swear this ideal (that we know of).

Hope that helps!

Yup. Other examples are the Lightweavers that get lightweaving much earlier than Soulcasting, and Elsecallers that get Soulcasting much earlier than their full Elsecalling abilities.  By contrast Kaladin was technically using his surges even before he swore the 1st. 

 

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8 hours ago, Munazir said:

If this is the case how come Elokhar, Shallan Kaladin were able to glow with Stormlight before swearing the Second Ideal. I thought the second ideal gave them their blades

Most orders get their Blade with the Third Oath* - some orders gain access to their Surges at different times. For some Orders, it's because the Surge is dangerous if misused (Skybreakers don't have access to Division until the Third Oath) or requires a stronger Connection (Edgedancers have both Growth and Abrasion at the start, but the combination power - Regrowth - isn't available until the Second Oath)

Not a spoiler, per say, but I'll tag this in case you are avoiding spoilers as it implies information from RoW:

Spoiler

It is implied that the "restrictions" on how surges/blade/armor are conveyed in each order is an effect of the unconscious Cognitive consensus of the Spren that for that order. In other words - Windrunners have access to all Lashings as Squires of the First Ideal because the Honorspren (as a whole) believe that Squires need the time for training and teamwork to learn their abilities. Conversely, Skybreakers don't have access to the Surge of Division until the Third Ideal because the HighSpren (as a whole) feel it is too dangerous in the hands of one who has not eared that level of trust.

Maybe this was explicitly laid down when the orders were formed, but we have no data on that - it only seems the Connection exists, but is not a conscious choice by each Spren and their Radiant - but an unconscious decision of that Spren Nation for their Order.

*Ref:

  • Spoiler

     

    • Kaladin at the end of The Way of Kings said the Second oath - no blade
    • Lift in the interlude also said her second oath - no blade but gained access to Regrowth
    • Kaladin at the end of Words of Radiance - Third Oath and SylBlade
    • Lift in the Edgedance Novella - Third Oath and WyndleStick (he doesn't want to cut things)

     

     

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It’s also important that with the others, a spren was already forming a proto-bond before ideals were spoken. With the Skybreakers, the Highspren specifically do not begin forming a bond until the “applicant” proves themself worthy.

Edited by Crucible of Shards
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On 9/14/2022 at 6:02 AM, Crucible of Shards said:

It’s also important that with the others, a spren was already forming a proto-bond before ideals were spoken. With the Skybreakers, the Highspren specifically do not begin forming a bond until the “applicant” proves themself worthy.

Yeah, Dalinar and Kaladin had a proto-bond with a specific spren before First Ideal. Skybreakers have a weird organizational structure where you join the organization first (First Ideal), then become squires to a particular Radiant (2nd), finally bond a particular highspren (3rd).

Kaladin's squires are attached to him first, they don't have to join the Order as an organization beforehand the way Skybreakers do.

I am not sure First Ideal Skybreakers have any powers at all.

Edited by cometaryorbit
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