callumke Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 I've been thinking about Hemalurgy since the Alloy of Law Ars Arcanum was revealed. I have constructed this list Iron - Steals strength Steel - Steals Physical Allomancy Tin - Steals senses Pewter - Steals Physical Feruchemy Zinc - Steals emotional fortitude Brass - Steals Mental Feruchemy Copper - Steals mental fortitude Bronze - Steals Mental Allomancy Chromium - Steals Spiritual Feruchemy Nicrosil - unknown Aluminium - Steals Enhancement Allomancy Duralumin - unknown Cadmium - Steals Temporal Allomancy Bendalloy - unknown Gold Steals - Steals Necessital Feruchemy Electrum - unknown Those marked with a are my suppositions, while denotes generally assumed but not verified. Note that, for lack of a better word, I have called the equivalent of the temporal metals the Necessital Feruchemical metals. This is becuase they all store things necessary for humans to live Breath, Energy, Health and ... Determination? Well, I have tried anyway. . I think this is quite clear. In the basic metals, it is the alloys that steal Feruchemy/Allomancy, but for the higher metals we can see that Aluminium (and Gold) reverse this trend. Therefore it makes sense for Chromium to steal Feruchemy from the same metals as Aluminium steals from, and It makes sense for Cadmium to steal the Allomantic equivalent of the powers that gold steals. Hence this list. Been trying to guess what Nicrosil, Duralumin, Bendalloy and Electrum steal. I reckon Nicrosil will steal something very important, given its new place of importance thanks to Feruchemy. What do people think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silus - Shard of Flame Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 This seems like a good list, and I agree with your assessment of Chromium and Cadmium. The other four have been a conundrum that has plagued me for a while. Chaos suggested to me that they steal more human attributes like the Base in the upper half of the chart do, and I agree that it's possible. However, I like the idea that they can steal abilities from different magic systems, that each can steal powers from magic systems relating to a specific group of Shards. The division on that one is a little shaky, since Ruin and Preservation wouldn't be part of that, leaving 14 Shards, which doesn't split evenly into four groups. So I'm not really sure. The Ars Arcanum essay from AoL seems to suggest that this might be the case, but the evidence for more human attributes seems pretty good as well. Though I haven't the foggiest what they would steal. The new Feruchemy powers would suggest that Nicrosil and Duralumin would steal Spiritual aspects, but what Bendalloy and Electrum would steal baffles me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj26792 Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 what if one of them (cadmium or bendalloy) is age/longevity Im not sure if it could make you younger or just make you able to live longer but that sort of relates to both the feruchemical and allomantic powers of those metals. I'm not sure what the other one would steal though maybe healing ability? the inquisitors healed faster and we know they largely didnt have feruchemy, its possible they had Gold feruchemy but they could also have just healed quicker which would explain why they needed to sleep more, their bodies couldnt generate enough energy to fuel their enhanced healing abilities, after all if it was feruchemy they could have chosen not to sleep and not healed super fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windrunner Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 I always wondered if maybe since some of the metals stole the little bits of Preservation inside people, the Human Attributes, (Iron Zinc Tin and Copper) that the remaining metals stole the part of Ruin inside people. I'm not sure what the Ruinous Attributes would be though. Note that, for lack of a better word, I have called the equivalent of the temporal metals the Necessital Feruchemical metals. I'm pretty sure in the back of the Hero of Ages it just called this quadrant the Temporal Metals. I would check it myself but I lent my book to my dad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
callumke Posted November 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 I'm pretty sure in the back of the Hero of Ages it just called this quadrant the Temporal Metals. I would check it myself but I lent my book to my dad. Yes they are called the Temporal Metals for Allomancy, but given that the enhancement metals for allomancy are called the spiritual metals in feruchemy, it seems that Cadmium, Bendalloy, Gold and Electrum will have a different freuchemical name. Anyway none of their feruchemical powers store anything to do with time, so Temporal wouldn't make sense. I agree that Nicrosil and Duralumin will probably steal a spiritual aspect, since iron and tin steal physical human attributes and Zinc and Copper steal mental i.e. Cognitive human attributes. What Bendalloy or Gold would steal I have no idea, I like the stealing of age but that seems to overlap with Feruchemical Atium a lot, and none of the other Hemalurgic properties seem to overlap as nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posaune Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 The Allomantic enhancement metals sould probably also be called spititual metals as well. I think the way they work is they increce or decrece an allomancer's connection to preservation, which either allows them to burn their metals in a giant flare, or it tempoaraly disables thier connection to preservation. This would also explain why aluminum disables all the metals, and not just the ones you are burning, and why Duraluminum only burns away the ones that you are currently burning. The increced connection to Preservation would not burn away your metals, but disabling your connection would make them seem to disapear. The metals would still be in your digestive tract, but you would not be able to access them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odium's_Shard Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 By 'steal Spiritual aspects', one could take that to mean Investiture, or even other magics, considering the use for Nicrosil in Feruchemy. So technically, because the Physical aspects taken are Strength and Speed, Cognitive aspects taken are Emotional and Mental Fortitude, I'm going to guess Spiritual Hemalurgy could take Investiture in two different ways. And the equivalent of Enhancement Hemalurgy could, crazily, be the ability to take the power to use currently burned metals, and the power to take metals currently not being burned? Weird. Probably not true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inkthinker Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 Are they still unknown? I thought the RPG had answers for this now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aradel Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 Some are still unknown. Particularly the ones mentioned earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurkistan Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 (edited) Note that, for lack of a better word, I have called the equivalent of the temporal metals the Necessital Feruchemical metals. This is becuase they all store things necessary for humans to live Breath, Energy, Health and ... Determination? Well, I have tried anyway. According to the RPG, they are the "Hybrid Metals because they balance the four essential elements of life: health, breath, nutrition, and the will to live." EDIT: More RPG stuff. Chromium/Nicrosil - Unknown (although chromium isn't Spiritual Feruchemy) Duraluminum - Spiritual (Enhancment metals) Feruchemy. Gold - Hybrid/"Necessital" (Temporal metals) Feruchemy - You're right there. Electrum, Cadmium, and Bendalloy - Unknown. Based on this, I would assume that electrum steals the Allomantic temporal powers, leaving the four metals left, all external, to steal other attributes. Edited January 6, 2012 by Kurkistan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
callumke Posted January 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 Thanks Kurkistan, I missed the Hybrid reference in the RPG. I agree with your assessment that Electrum stores Temporal Allomancy. This leaves four metals Hemalugically unknown... Am looking forward to the next full Mistborn Trilogy! PS. I think Hybrid is a cop-out; it would be very hard to come up with a name that properly describes those metals. The reasons given, the balance of essential elements of life, don't make sense with the word hybrid. Perhaps the life metals, but for now I will stick with Necessital. At least for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 I think Survival fits more than either one, because of Determination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odium's_Shard Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 I'd side with Life, though. It just.. fits. Life Metals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuaiir Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 I keep thinking it's the 'Essential' metals, but that is clearly wrong. Makes sense, but still wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 Late after the Alloy release, outside the bookstore, Brandon called that quadrant the Physical metals. He said that it is not a mistake that pewter spike can steal those Feruchemical powers. (Note that Sazed said the Inquisitors get their health power--Feruchemical gold--from pewter, which I had thought was an error. Nope.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aradel Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 Now that is interesting... So feruchemy might not be divided the same way allomancy is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odium's_Shard Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 At least similarly. But if you slot Hemalurgy into this, then it gets mixed by what it is possible to steal from which quadrant in a single place at once.. Confusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 Brandon had said that, the reason why there was no Feruchemical Table at the end of Alloy of Law because it wasn't ready. He said Isaac was thinking like an Allomancer, and Feruchemy has different things, as does Hemalurgy. Like, Feruchemy doesn't have Pushing and Pulling metals. I don't know how this affects the quadrants, but things may be more different than we had previously believed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windrunner Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 I think that Feruchemy almost has to be divided up differently of Allomancy. I was thinking the other day about how Feruchemy fits in the Realms and I realized that the temporal metals of Allomancy don't make any sense as the cognitive metals of Feruchemy, as I had assumed they were. It seems like gold, electrum, cadmium, and bendalloy are actually Feruchemical physical attributes, along with iron, steel, tin and pewter. This means that the mental quadrant of Feruchemy is actually the Cognititve quadrant. But then I think about warmth and I'm a little unsure. Is it a feeling of warmth or actual physical warmth? But mental speed, wakefulness and memory seem to fit wonderfully into the Cognitive Realm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacemonkey Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 I think that Feruchemy almost has to be divided up differently of Allomancy. I was thinking the other day about how Feruchemy fits in the Realms and I realized that the temporal metals of Allomancy don't make any sense as the cognitive metals of Feruchemy, as I had assumed they were. It seems like gold, electrum, cadmium, and bendalloy are actually Feruchemical physical attributes, along with iron, steel, tin and pewter. This means that the mental quadrant of Feruchemy is actually the Cognititve quadrant. But then I think about warmth and I'm a little unsure. Is it a feeling of warmth or actual physical warmth? But mental speed, wakefulness and memory seem to fit wonderfully into the Cognitive Realm. I agree with you on gold, cadmium, and bendalloy, but electrum stores determination. That's clearly a mental attribute. And yes, brass stores actual heat. So the breakdown for Feruchemy seems to be as follows: Physical: Iron, Steel, Tin, Pewter, Bendalloy, Cadmium, Gold, Brass. Cognitive: Zinc, Copper, Bronze, Electrum. Spiritual: Aluminum, Duralumin, Chromium, Nicrosil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windrunner Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) Urg, I agree with you that determination seems mental, but I hate breaking the quadrants like this, it'll look so inelegant... I'm glad that it's actual physical warmth that is stored, not a mental feeling of warmth, because then, for all intents and purposes, there is no survival benefit. Edit: Found a relevant quote and remembered something I forgot to say. Are the usual quadrants (Physical, Mental, Temporal, Enhancement) preserved in Feruchemy and Hemalurgy? Status:No. In Ferchemy, it is based Realmantically. There is a quadrant of Spiritual, a quadrant of Cognitive and two quadrants of Physical. So quadrants are still in effect, but perhaps they're divided differently? I don't like the idea that a base metal and it's alloy could be in different quadrants though. Edited January 14, 2012 by Windrunner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
callumke Posted January 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) Urg, I agree with you that determination seems mental, but I hate breaking the quadrants like this, it'll look so inelegant... I'm glad that it's actual physical warmth that is stored, not a mental feeling of warmth, because then, for all intents and purposes, there is no survival benefit. Edit: Found a relevant quote and remembered something I forgot to say. So quadrants are still in effect, but perhaps they're divided differently? I don't like the idea that a base metal and it's alloy could be in different quadrants though. Thanks, where was this quote from? Haven't read it before. This has disproved my original hypothesis. This now leaves more Hemalurgic powers unaccounted for. Edited January 14, 2012 by FireArcadia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windrunner Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) Sorry for not putting a citation in, I was feeling a bit lazy. It's from the Alloy of Law Release, and the rest of the the information we got there can be found here in the Clues, Questions, and Answers from 11-08-11 thread. I'll edit my original post too so there's no more confusion. I always thought in the back of my head that Hemalurgy could be used to steal the piece of Ruin that's inside everyone's soul. My main logic on this was it would be weird for Ruin's magic system to be able to steal pieces of his opposite Shard, but not be able to steal pieces from Ruin, the very shard that powers Hemalurgy. Edited January 14, 2012 by Windrunner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacemonkey Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 I always thought in the back of my head that Hemalurgy could be used to steal the piece of Ruin that's inside everyone's soul. My main logic on this was it would be weird for Ruin's magic system to be able to steal pieces of his opposite Shard, but not be able to steal pieces from Ruin, the very shard that powers Hemalurgy. Well, one way of looking at it is that since some power is lost through Hemalurgy, Ruin accomplishes its Intent of breaking things down by diminishing the overall amount of Preservation when someone is spiked. Allomancy is apparently linked to Preservation, so presumably one would have to transfer that connection through Hemalurgy, whereas Feruchemy and the Physical attributes are probably a combination of both Ruin and Preservation, with a bit more Preservation, given what we know about how the Shards invested humans on Scadrial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacemonkey Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 As far as the original topic of what the Hemalurgic properties of the metals might be, it seems likely that Nicrosil and Duralumin steal spiritual traits of some kind. The problem is that we don't really know enough about the Spiritual realm to guess what that might be, outside of the traits we know of from the Feruchemical Spiritual metals- luck, identity, and connections- but somehow I doubt that Hemalurgy will work with the same attributes as Feruchemy. And from the Allomantic temporal quadrant... who knows? One of those metals must steal the Allomantic temporal powers, but given that there doesn't seem to be an equivalent Feruchemical quadrant, that leaves three metals open. Any ideas on what these metals do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts