“We Chose!”

[Benedictify]

I have a suspicion that the killing of Adonalsium might not be what it sounds like. Maybe they were a willing participant in what happened.
 

A possible foreshadowing of a possibly repeating theme in the Cosmere. 

Edited August 13, 2022 by Benedictify
Rephrasing

[+Kolten]

Well in dawnshard, rysn did get a feeling of acceptance from the mural depicting the shattering.So I would say this view has a lot of merit. 

[That1Cellist]

3 minutes ago, Kolten said:

Well in dawnshard, rysn did get a feeling of acceptance from the mural depicting the shattering.So I would say this view has a lot of merit. 

I don't disagree, but wasn't that dawnshard Change? Wouldn't it be happy with it's role in the shattering?

[+Kolten]

I don't think the dawnshards are sapient, they seem more like a tool than a mini shard. 

Plus in the context of the scene it was the light of the "sun" that was being shattered in the mural that she felt it from.

Edited August 13, 2022 by Kolten
typo

[That1Cellist]

14 minutes ago, Kolten said:

I don't think the dawnshards are sapient, they seem more like a tool than a mini shard. 

Plus in the context of the scene it was the light of the "sun" that was being shattered in the mural that she felt it from.

If dawnshards aren't sapient, how did Rysn feel that feeling of contentment? I don't think they are, unless dawnshards also gain sentience if left alone long enough. Are you implying that this contentment came from Adonalsium? Adonalsium is dead, and the dawshards were part of it. Maybe I'm just not understanding.

[+Kolten]

More like she was feeling a memory of what happened. Maybe the dawnshards get the intuitive history of their use like (mistborn spoilers)

Spoiler

vin/sazed did with with preservation?

In any case that is just how it came off to me in the text, maybe I should go find the passage

Quote

She swore she could feel the heat of that sun, burning, washing over her. It was not angry, though she knew it was being ripped apart like a person on some awful torture device. 

She felt something emanating from it. Resignation? Confidence? Understanding? 

so @Benedictify I would say that more than supports your suspicion

Edited August 13, 2022 by Kolten
found the passage

[kelianmao]

The Iriali worship a being called "The One", who became Many in order to experience everything, and will eventually become One again. https://coppermind.net/wiki/Iri#Religion

(Mistborn spoilers)

Spoiler

Harmony shows it's possible for Shards to come back together, and apparently Odium is scared of what such a union represents. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/431-san-diego-comic-conhome-2020/#e14009

When Dalinar opens Honor's perpendicularity in Oathbringer Ch 119, Odium freaks out too:

Quote

“I am Unity.”

He slammed both hands together.

And combined three realms into one.

[...]

“No!” Odium screamed. He stepped forward. “No, we killed you. WE KILLED YOU!”

"You" could obviously refer to Honor, but Dalinar calls himself Unity, not Honor. So, could Odium be afraid of Adonalsium coming back instead? After all, Rayse was present at the Shattering, so he did 'kill' Adonalsium.

Edited August 16, 2022 by kelianmao

[teknopathetic]

Still so confusing that Honour thought the Dawnshards were lost. What happened there? Seems like 1 and maybe 2 are still around. 

Edited August 16, 2022 by teknopathetic

[Lockheart]

8 hours ago, kelianmao said:

The Iriali worship a being called "The One", who became Many in order to experience everything, and will eventually become One again. https://coppermind.net/wiki/Iri#Religion

(Mistborn spoilers)

  Hide contents

Harmony shows it's possible for Shards to come back together, and apparently Odium is scared of what such a union represents. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/431-san-diego-comic-conhome-2020/#e14009

When Dalinar opens Honor's perpendicularity in Oathbringer Ch 119, Odium freaks out too:

"You" could obviously refer to Honor, but Dalinar calls himself Unity, not Honor. So, could Odium be afraid of Adonalsium coming back instead? After all, Rayse was present at the Shattering, so he did 'kill' Adonalsium.

So, I read this in the wee hours of the morning... and my mind immediately put 2 and 2 together.  

 

I didn't want to immediately jump to a conclusion on a blurt out my thoughts without teasing it out... 

 

But the thought stuck with me all morning. So bad in fact that it troubled my sleep.

 

Now, I haven't dove too deeply into the lore behind the Shattering, and though I've read all that's been published in the cosmere, there are people on this site who are far quicker to make connections and delve into the intricacies and theories and intrigue in this amazing universe. 

 

I may be nuts to think this, and there are probably dozens of threads arguing both for an against this very thought... 

 

But,  based on the very first thing you said in your post.... who is the one character who happens to be in just the right place at just the right time? A person the Odium feels the strong urge to destroy (and admittedly, I may be reading what isn't there in this case)? Who was friends with the 16 at the Shattering, but wouldn't take up a shard even though (if I recall correctly) he could have had he wanted? 

 

More importantly, the person doing all of those things is traveling from system to system, collecting what he needs in order to use the different magic systems seen in the cosmere. 

 

There are several reasons why a person would want to collect all the different magics available... most leaning toward a desire for power/control/rule. 

 

But, Hoid IS powerful. And it seems like even those he rubs the wrong way tend to respect him deeply...

 

Maybe I'm loony. But I think it would be pretty dang cool if Hoid was Adonalsium... and the cosmere story is showing us how he 'allowed' himself to be shattered, just to see if he could reconsilodate his power.

 

[cometaryorbit]

There is supposed to be a pre-Shattering story with Hoid as a main character (Dragonsteel), and from sample chapters posted of previous (admittedly non-canon) versions it's pretty clear that he was a mortal with powers pre-Shattering.

Also, RoW's letter from Harmony to Hoid says "You have not felt what I have. You have not known what I have. You rejected that chance - and wisely, I think. However, though you think not as a mortal, you are their kin."

--

Yes, I think that part of Dawnshard implies the Shattering was accepted by Adonalsium at least to the extent of refraining from fighting back ("resignation").

Given Shards' future sight, it's hard to see how Adonalsium couldn't have foreseen and prevented the Shattering if he wanted to.

[Lockheart]

23 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

There is supposed to be a pre-Shattering story with Hoid as a main character (Dragonsteel), and from sample chapters posted of previous (admittedly non-canon) versions it's pretty clear that he was a mortal with powers pre-Shattering.

Also, RoW's letter from Harmony to Hoid says "You have not felt what I have. You have not known what I have. You rejected that chance - and wisely, I think. However, though you think not as a mortal, you are their kin."

--

Yes, I think that part of Dawnshard implies the Shattering was accepted by Adonalsium at least to the extent of refraining from fighting back ("resignation").

Given Shards' future sight, it's hard to see how Adonalsium couldn't have foreseen and prevented the Shattering if he wanted to.

That's what I was getting at; preshattering... I havent read any of the noncanan unpublished chapters, but I've never seen Hoid referenced as 'mortal'. In fact, for some reason I recall him stating something along the lines of "I don't believe/I'm not sure if I can be killed" (admittedly, I don't recall which book, or where, or context... I need to reread from WoK again.)

 

I don't know if Harmony would gain all past knowledge upon taking up the power of Preservation and Ruin. In fact, I seem to remember Harmony mentioning there are things that he is still learning/uncovering as well. Perhaps he understands that Hoid didn't take up a shard, but if Hoid=Adonalsium (as my admittedly crackpot theory surmises), why would he take up the power of an individual shard?

[cometaryorbit]

1 hour ago, Lockheart said:

That's what I was getting at; preshattering... I havent read any of the noncanan unpublished chapters, but I've never seen Hoid referenced as 'mortal'. In fact, for some reason I recall him stating something along the lines of "I don't believe/I'm not sure if I can be killed" (admittedly, I don't recall which book, or where, or context... I need to reread from WoK again.)

 

I don't know if Harmony would gain all past knowledge upon taking up the power of Preservation and Ruin. In fact, I seem to remember Harmony mentioning there are things that he is still learning/uncovering as well. Perhaps he understands that Hoid didn't take up a shard, but if Hoid=Adonalsium (as my admittedly crackpot theory surmises), why would he take up the power of an individual shard?

I meant "mortal" as opposed to Adonalsium or a Shard. Hoid is immortal (or at least ageless and super good at healing), but his agelessness is due to holding a Dawnshard, and those were used in the Shattering, so I don't think that was likely to have been the case at the beginning of Hoid's story.

Harmony gained the knowledge of the history of the power- what had been done with the powers of Preservation and Ruin before. Not all knowledge, even about Scadrial: he could see that Rashek had moved Scadrial and changed its life and people but needed hints from his copperminds to work out what it should have been like before. He didn't learn much beyond Scadrial - only hints of Adonalsium.

[Letryx13]

On 8/12/2022 at 8:28 PM, Benedictify said:

I have a suspicion that the killing of Adonalsium might not be what it sounds like. Maybe they were a willing participant in what happened.
 

A possible foreshadowing of a possibly repeating theme in the Cosmere. 

I'm not convinced that Adolnalsium is dead, dead. I mean, they called shard blades spren corpes but they're probably going to be restored in the future.  So dead can be interpreted different ways.

That being said, I agree with you.  I would be very surprised if Adolnalsium didn't allow the shattering to occur.  

On 8/16/2022 at 3:58 AM, kelianmao said:

The Iriali worship a being called "The One", who became Many in order to experience everything, and will eventually become One again. https://coppermind.net/wiki/Iri#Religion

(Mistborn spoilers)

When Dalinar opens Honor's perpendicularity in Oathbringer Ch 119, Odium freaks out too:

"You" could obviously refer to Honor, but Dalinar calls himself Unity, not Honor. So, could Odium be afraid of Adonalsium coming back instead? After all, Rayse was present at the Shattering, so he did 'kill' Adonalsium.

I've commented on this before as well.  The important part isn't "You" it's "We". Who is "We"? Odium killed Honor by himself (as far as we know), so it doesn't seem like he would be referring to Honor. I consider it far more likely that he is referring to Adolnalsium there.  The only other idea that I've heard that could work is the "we" refers to the shard of Odium itself and Rayse separately. But that seems unlikely.

On 8/16/2022 at 10:45 AM, teknopathetic said:

Still so confusing that Honour thought the Dawnshards were lost. What happened there? Seems like 1 and maybe 2 are still around. 

I don't think he thought they were lost; he just didn't know where they were.