MynameisGONE

Strong identity resists investiture

13 posts in this topic

Aluminium feruchemy’s attribute is to store identity and i think this is related to why it acts strangely to investiture.

So when soulcasting you communicate with an objects identity in the cognitive realm and convince it to change its identity, when its convinced it changes both in the cognitive ream and the physical realm. I think the reason aluminium can’t be soulcast is because it has such a strong sense of self that it’s impossible to change. This rigid sense of identity would conflict with any type of investiture that would also inadvertently alter its identity making it highly resistant to invested arts.

I think the reason Hoid can’t be easily killed with a shardblade is because he’s somehow manipulating his identity so the blade loses it supernatural sharpness. It would be like trying to kill a knights radiant with a normal sword.

This would also mean that a fullborn could compound and tap aluminium to make themselves immune to the supernatural sharpness of a shardblade.

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13 minutes ago, MynameisGONE said:

I think the reason Hoid can’t be easily killed with a shardblade is because he’s somehow manipulating his identity so the blade loses it supernatural sharpness. It would be like trying to kill a knights radiant with a normal sword.

Hoid IS a knight radiant... But before that he also has breaths and other investiture. He probably is not manipulating his identity. He acts the same everytime we seem him.

The only time we see him acting odd (for Hoid) is at the end of RoW. Now, we do know that he is storing memories in breaths/investiture. Odium/Taravangian (and theoretically other shards) can look through and erase anything in there. I don't think that changes his identity. 
Hoid is really old, but still alive. He is a world-hopper. He has held a dawnshard. He is HIGHLY invested. I think these things have more to do with is ability to not be easily be killed by a shardblade. 

I like where you are going with Aluminum, but I don't think it translates to Hoid. 

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Devil's Advocate Statement:  There is a very real (but unconfirmed) possibility that Aluminum still can't be Invested even when used for Metalminds and Hemalurgy.  

WOB says Aluminum Compounding (and presumably Tapping) wont give you much, and that burning Aluminum Metalminds just destroys the metal without effect.  But that just means Feruchemy might not actually Increase your Identity, it still could be possible that increasing Identity would have some of the effects you describe.  

 

 

Quote

 

FireArcadia

Is there any use to being a copper Compounder, from a Feruchemical point of view? I think the same point would also apply to an aluminum Compounder.

Brandon Sanderson

Some combinations, like some abilities themselves, aren't really that useful. That said, being able to Compound copper...that could do some things. Aluminum, not so much.

17th Shard Forum Q&A (Sept. 25, 2012)

 

 

 

 

Quote

 

Andrew The Great (paraphrased)

What would happen if a person were to burn a metal that was Feruchemically charged using Allomancy?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

The metal used in Allomancy is like a key or a doorway to the power that Allomancy actually uses. The metal acts as a filter, much as the Aons in Elantris do, to determine what the power actually does. However, if the metal is Feruchemically charged, then it will basically become a super-burst of Feruchemical power with no Allomantic effect. The Feruchemical charge acts as a filter as well as the metal, and changes what the power does. in this case, say you were burning steel, you would just be massively speedy for a second, and wouldn't actually have the ability to push on anything Allomantically. Hope that answered the question. I get the concept, so if you need me to explain it differently, let me know and I'll try. Oh, the other thing I forgot is that this concept only works if it's a metal that you charged yourself. If it's a metal someone else charged, it would just work like regular Allomancy, and the Feruchemical charge would just cease to exist.

Andrew The Great (paraphrased)

If someone aluminum or duralumin burned the Feruchemically charged metals, what would happen?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Basically the same thing as above, except with aluminum. Aluminum, they would just go away.

Idaho Falls Signing (June 20, 2009)

 

 
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9 hours ago, MynameisGONE said:

I think the reason Hoid can’t be easily killed with a shardblade is because he’s somehow manipulating his identity so the blade loses it supernatural sharpness. It would be like trying to kill a knights radiant with a normal sword.

The reason Hoid can't be killed by a Shardblades is because he's a Dawnshard, and the healing it provides is so great he can just survive most anything.

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3 hours ago, Frustration said:

he's a Dawnshard

Is? Or was? (I'm in the camp of not anymore.)

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I’ve thought about this some more and I think it could also work in reverse. It could be that aluminium has no identity, this could prevent it from being soulcast as you may need an identity to change when soulcasting. This would also explain why feruchemically you can store identity, as not having its own would leave space for somebody else’s.

Also I don’t think my original idea would work if you can’t compound aluminium as just doubling the strength of your identity doesn’t seem like it should be that overpowered.

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On 8/11/2022 at 9:54 PM, Fezzik said:

Is? Or was? (I'm in the camp of not anymore.)

Does it matter? The point is that the Dawnshard is the source of his healing.

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Do we have proof Hoid's healing comes from the dawnshard? @Frustration I looked, but couldn't find a definite link, only that his healing predates the shards.

 

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13 minutes ago, Fezzik said:

Do we have proof Hoid's healing comes from the dawnshard? @Frustration I looked, but couldn't find a definite link, only that his healing predates the shards.

 

 

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/443/#e14300

Quote

Brandon Sanderson

Hoid was a Dawnshard at some point in the deep past, and the reason he (even still) cannot physically harm people, or even eat meat, is related to the changes this made to his spirit. (Consider this the same fundamental principle as savanthood.) The few of you who have read Dragonsteel know that him being a Dawnshard was also the source of his immortality in that book, though the terms were different back then. (The word Dawnshard was never mentioned, for example--though the primary story of Dragonsteel (which is no longer canon) was about several people who unwittingly become Dawnshards.)

And a preemptive RAFO to all questions on this point. :)

Dawnshard Annotations (Nov. 6, 2020)

 

His immortality comes from the dawnshard and probably include the healing.

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I am not saying the dawnshard didn't effect him--it definitely did, I'm just saying our sample size is three: Hoid who has other magic that predates the shards (yolish variant of lightweaving), Rysn who has not displayed the healing factor Hoid has, and SP 4.

Spoiler

Sigzil is almost killed by sunlight, and then in the arena right?

It's been a while, so I could be wrong about that one.

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On 8/13/2022 at 2:18 PM, Fezzik said:

Do we have proof Hoid's healing comes from the dawnshard? @Frustration I looked, but couldn't find a definite link, only that his healing predates the shards.

 

Brandon has said that Hoid's healing comes from the Weapon used to kill Adonalsium.

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I'm not sure those WoBs are all that definitive. The second is talking about using regular Allomantic aluminum with metalminds, not aluminumminds. The first could mean aluminum compounding isn't possible, but it could also mean that increased Identity doesn't do anything useful (decreasing it is better).

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On 8/12/2022 at 5:51 AM, MynameisGONE said:

 It could be that aluminium has no identity,

That has some wonky implications.... Aluminum definitely has an identity, right? Everyone who ever says the word "Aluminum" is identifying it.

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