EmTheElsecaller Posted August 10, 2022 Report Share Posted August 10, 2022 (edited) I’m new here! Well, not really, I’ve had an account for about a month and enjoyed browsing other people’s theories for a long time before that, but this is my first post Just a disclaimer before I start this - I read SA for fun and not to delve into the complicated Cosmere stuff (although I’m trying to get into it more, hence my presence on this website lol.) My knowledge of Shards is average at best so the answer to my question will probably be blindingly obvious to all you die-hard Cosmere fans out there But anyway, I wanted to ask - when we hear that Honor is dead, does this just mean Tanavast is dead? Or is the whole Shard somehow obsolete? Could someone theoretically Ascend to Honor again? I’ve seen a few theories of Dalinar/Kaladin ascending etc, and thought ‘hold on, isn’t Honor dead?’ which made me question the definition of both ‘Honor’ and ‘dead’ in this statement. I think I read a WoB somewhere about how Tanavast is definitely dead, it’s not like the Shard itself was “killed” and Tanavast went back to his previous life, so I know it’s not that, but I’m curious. Thanks for putting up with me asking what is probably a stupid question lol Edited August 10, 2022 by Elsecalling… typos 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BinarySecond Posted August 10, 2022 Report Share Posted August 10, 2022 (edited) The power of the Shard remains, but it has been Splintered. This means it's not something one can just pick up. I think there is a WoB about unsplintering but I'm not sure. Odium knows he cannot destroy other Shards or just kill the current bearer as another one can just come along. Nor did he want to take up the shards himself due to...complications that can cause. He Splinters the Shards he defeats to prevent them from being taken up by others, rendering them a non threat. But yes Honor is dead refers primarily to Tanavast. Or to the Recreance. Actually I think it gets a few different interpretations depending on perspective. Edited August 10, 2022 by BinarySecond Am bad at english 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTheElsecaller Posted August 10, 2022 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2022 Ah ok, that makes sense, thanks. Is the Stormfather a Splinter of Honor then? And what about honorspren (possibly the other sentient Radiant spren, but just referring to honorspren here because Syl always calls herself a ‘little piece of divinity’ etc)? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That1Cellist Posted August 10, 2022 Report Share Posted August 10, 2022 Yes, the Stormfather is a splinter of honor. I believe all spren are splinters of honor, but have Cultivation mixed in as well. At the very least, yes, spren are splinters of honor. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rg2045 Posted August 10, 2022 Report Share Posted August 10, 2022 1 hour ago, Elsecalling… said: Ah ok, that makes sense, thanks. Is the Stormfather a Splinter of Honor then? And what about honorspren (possibly the other sentient Radiant spren, but just referring to honorspren here because Syl always calls herself a ‘little piece of divinity’ etc)? 1 hour ago, That1Cellist said: Yes, the Stormfather is a splinter of honor. I believe all spren are splinters of honor, but have Cultivation mixed in as well. At the very least, yes, spren are splinters of honor. Should be noted that shards can purposefully splinter themselves to create spren. And sense it’s more controlled it’s not as dangerous. Also welcome! Just a piece of advice, be thorough with any theories, @Frustration is known to shoot down theories with WoBs left and right 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BinarySecond Posted August 10, 2022 Report Share Posted August 10, 2022 On the Stormfather he is a mix of the original Stormfather and Tanavast's Cognitive Shadow. Relevant WOB! https://wob.coppermind.net/events/175/#e8439 So he's got a little bit of Tanavast's personality thrown in there as well as the power of Honour. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTheElsecaller Posted August 10, 2022 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2022 Got it, thank you for answering my question! 1 hour ago, Rg2045 said: Just a piece of advice, be thorough with any theories, @Frustration is known to shoot down theories with WoBs left and right Noted 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NameIess Posted August 10, 2022 Report Share Posted August 10, 2022 1 hour ago, BinarySecond said: On the Stormfather he is a mix of the original Stormfather and Tanavast's Cognitive Shadow. Relevant WOB! https://wob.coppermind.net/events/175/#e8439 So he's got a little bit of Tanavast's personality thrown in there as well as the power of Honour. Tanavast is dead, no funny business, so his CS can't be part of the Stormfather: Quote Questioner Is Honor still alive? Brandon Sanderson Honor? Honor's dead. Questioner What about Tanavast? Brandon Sanderson So, um, you can assume that there is no funny business going on there. Oathbringer release party (Nov. 13, 2017) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Why Kaladin? Posted August 10, 2022 Report Share Posted August 10, 2022 Quote Wetlander Did the Splintering happen before the Recreance? Brandon Sanderson I will reveal this as we go. However, be aware that in the past, when a Shard was killed, the person holding it, it is a slow burn to actually kill someone; because power cannot be destroyed. So, what it means to be killed means something a little different in these cases. Hoser Did Tanavast survive Honor's splintering? Brandon Sanderson Tanavast is dead. Good question. However, that is as of the start of The Way of Kings. Hoser So he could have survived the Splintering... Brandon Sanderson He could have survived the Splintering. Hoser ...as a mortal... Brandon Sanderson Well, he could have survived for a time, but then he could not have then... Hoser ...passed away in his sleep... Brandon Sanderson Right. Steelheart Seattle signing (Oct. 14, 2013) There also is this WoB which I think clarifies this pretty well 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erklitt Posted August 10, 2022 Report Share Posted August 10, 2022 (edited) First of all: welcome, @Elsecalling…! 5 hours ago, BinarySecond said: On the Stormfather he is a mix of the original Stormfather and Tanavast's Cognitive Shadow. Relevant WOB! https://wob.coppermind.net/events/175/#e8439 So he's got a little bit of Tanavast's personality thrown in there as well as the power of Honour. That was just a mix-up of shard and vessel. The WOB states that 'the Stormfather is kind of Honor's Cognitive Shadow'. Otherwise, this thread has me a little confused - some posts don't fit my previous understanding: 6 hours ago, That1Cellist said: Yes, the Stormfather is a splinter of honor. I believe all spren are splinters of honor, but have Cultivation mixed in as well. At the very least, yes, spren are splinters of honor. Both the Stormfather and honor spren including Syl existed long before the splintering. So how they can be splinters of Honor? Being made of Honor (and Cultivation) is something different than being splinters, I would think. Or is the word 'splinter' used in two different senses here? One being a synonym for 'sliver (of divinity)' as Syl sometimes puts it, the other the broken pieces of the shard after splintering? 5 hours ago, Rg2045 said: Should be noted that shards can purposefully splinter themselves to create spren. I thought spren only exist on and are typical for Roshar? And what reason would a shard have to create spren anyway, and at the cost of its own destruction to boot? Edited August 10, 2022 by Erklitt slight grammer correction 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rg2045 Posted August 10, 2022 Report Share Posted August 10, 2022 3 hours ago, Erklitt said: I thought spren only exist on and are typical for Roshar? And what reason would a shard have to create spren anyway, and at the cost of its own destruction to boot? I said spren in more a rosharin way. In the cosmer spren are known in roshar, seon are related to spren in a way or at least made by related processes 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cometaryorbit Posted August 10, 2022 Report Share Posted August 10, 2022 3 hours ago, Erklitt said: Both the Stormfather and honor spren including Syl existed long before the splintering. So how they can be splinters of Honor? Being made of Honor (and Cultivation) is something different than being splinters, I would think. Or is the word 'splinter' used in two different senses here? One being a synonym for 'sliver (of divinity)' as Syl sometimes puts it, the other the broken pieces of the shard after splintering? I thought spren only exist on and are typical for Roshar? And what reason would a shard have to create spren anyway, and at the cost of its own destruction to boot? Honor created honorspren before his death. Honor wasn't Splintered then - the Shard was intact- but an intact/living Shard can voluntarily give away bits of its power. Cultivationspren (like Wyndle) are Splinters of Cultivation even though Cultivation is very much alive and active. They're called Splinters because they are separated from the Shard in the sense that they have minds & wills of their own - cultivationspren aren't puppets or 'fingers' of Cultivation. In general, giving away power in one way or another - or its bleeding into the environment - is a normal thing for Shards. Raysium is pieces of Odium's essence in solid form, and Odium is alive. Stormlight, Lifelight, and Voidlight are the three Shards' essences in gaseous form. But these don't have minds of their own so aren't really Splinters. The same thing happens in the Mistborn series: Spoiler Atium and Lerasium are Ruin and Preservation's essence in solid form; the Mist is Preservation in gaseous form, and Ruin appears as a black smoke; the liquid in the Well of Ascension is liquid Preservation. The Stormfather is weirder. We know that some version of the Stormfather was around in Dawnsinger times, called the Rider of Storms. But Honor changed things before his death (including setting up the Stormfather's visions and starting the Stormfather creating honorspren. But apparently there was more to the changes: the Stormfather tells Dalinar he was 'less awake' before). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lego Mistborn Posted August 11, 2022 Report Share Posted August 11, 2022 19 hours ago, Elsecalling… said: Got it, thank you for answering my question! Noted @Frustration isn't that scary, he's pretty friendly to new people, and he's pretty kind. He can shoot down theories, but usually he does offer some other commentary about what other ideas might work. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonehand Posted August 11, 2022 Report Share Posted August 11, 2022 On 8/10/2022 at 8:41 AM, Rg2045 said: Just a piece of advice, be thorough with any theories, @Frustration is known to shoot down theories with WoBs left and right We need a tag line or a badge or something. "You just got Frustrationed!" or "I have been personally victimized by Frustration's encyclopedic knowledge of cosmere lore" 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTheElsecaller Posted August 11, 2022 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2022 7 hours ago, Ta'veren Kaladin said: @Frustration isn't that scary, he's pretty friendly to new people, and he's pretty kind. He can shoot down theories, but usually he does offer some other commentary about what other ideas might work. Ok, thank you Btw thanks for the clarifications about Stormfather/spren everyone 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted August 12, 2022 Report Share Posted August 12, 2022 10 hours ago, stonehand said: We need a tag line or a badge or something. "You just got Frustrationed!" or "I have been personally victimized by Frustration's encyclopedic knowledge of cosmere lore" Your theory has been Frustrated. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.