KaladinWorldsinger

I know HOW Kal's Big Book 5 moment will go: Dissecting Fleet

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This theory is very much based on Fleet! I think hoid's story is heavy foreshadowing for kaladin's big moment in book 5 and also lore clues for another character. Let's get the part unimportant to the theory first

Fleet is Nohadon

Spoiler

In his mind’s eye, he saw the race. Fleet, a barefooted man. Wit claimed all knew of him, but Kaladin had never heard of such a story. Lanky, tall, with tied-back long hair that went to his waist.

Oops made it a spoiler quote. Some evidence for fleet is nohadon

Anyway it's a very strange detail. Young Nohadon also has hair long enough to be tied in a braid.

The only way to be faster than a dustbringer is with gravitation. This implies that fleet was a Windrunner or skybreaker. Nohadon says honorspren have good judgement, implying that he is one.

Journey to Urithiru: Nohadon walked from Abamabar to Urithiru. I think fleet is based on this journey with some obviously wrong details  ( Natanatan or shinovar was not on the journey)

The confusion might come here because the journey was not as simple as a walk. Nohadon does call it a metaphor at the start of his book. He compares men's lives to candle flames at one point in the book and...

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But with the Oathgates, Navani could travel into Shadesmar—and everything in the Physical Realm reflected there. Human beings manifested as floating candle flames.

 So clearly he went to the shadesmar. His parables for the book could maybe have been derived from meeting cryptics, honorspren and other radiant spren and learning what they valued.Also, the cognitive representation of Urithiru is called Nohadon's Stairways. Another peice of evidence that he was in shadesmar.

The stormfather thinks of Nohadon as a good man. He also says there was a man who made him laugh. Nohadon also confirms that he did have a guide on his journey. This i think is definitely stormfather.

Fleet is also... Kaladin?

Kaladin is absolutely making up the story as hoid urges him. But at the end, hoid remarks that kal does know the end of the story and that Fleet is a real man. But then at the very end, hoid also says that he never has sung this story before... What's going on?

Spiritual Realm shenanigans. Kal is making up the story but he is subconsciously receiving info from the spiritual realm. This is why fleet has waist length hair without kal ever thinking that. For another example, shallan recreates the girl who looked up, and she just happens to have white hair even though that was not what shallan intended. There is a wob confirming this.

Ok but why do I think that fleet is somehow also kal? Because of these:

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“The storm approached and found him there. It stilled and stopped upon its course! The rains they fell, the winds they blew, but forward they could not progress.

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“So in that land of dirt and soil, our hero stopped the storm itself

The storm stopped. That. Never.Happens. This is the basis of stormfather's arc. He never changes and shows no mercy. Dalinar and kal berate him for this and very, very slowly stormfather begins to change. This arc can only culminate in the storms stopping. So u can't tell me that he already has done it a long time ago and also doesn't remember it. No, this is only in stormfather's future. And he could really only show mercy to 2 people: Dalinar and Kal.

Adding the fact that, Nohadon didn't die at the end of his journey, he wrote a book and distributed it across roshar.

Kal's Death Scare Moment

Kal may or may not die in book 5. It could honestly go either way. But both sides of the arg will agree that there will be a moment where Brandon will make us think that kal is going to die. There will be a death scare, we can bet on that. This will be his big emotional moment in book 5. This is very standard in fiction afterall.

The idea of this theory started when I was wondering if kal will say the fifth ideal or not. 

We know that there are clear death rattles connected to his ideals, because of the chapter titles. The rattles are always in first person. So if there is a rattle, we should be able to find it.

It is not the 'fallen title' death rattle as this is in second person. The one i think fits is..

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The death is my life, the strength becomes my weakness, the journey has ended.

This is very depressing. But I think this fits the style of kal death rattles than the other first person rattles. Also this death rattle might not be as sad as you think, due to wordplay. I think this is the death scare moment. If this is also the 5th ideal moment, 'the journey has ended' means the final ideal of a radiant. If kal becomes a cognitive shadow here, 'the death is my life' also makes sense.

It's the middle part that is very interesting.

Stormlight Exhaustion

Using a lot of stormlight is dangerous for a radiant. The moment stormlight runs out, they become as exhausted as the amount of stormlight used. This effect is very similar to pewter drag from mistborn. This effect is ref in every SA book many, many times. 

And the most extreme version we saw was just before kal swears the 2nd ideal, as he nearly kills himself by using too much stormlight.

This is definitely what 'the strength becomes my weakness' means. 

In book 5, kal will at some point have to fly from Natanatan to shinovar at top speed, maybe to warn the shin,  but with limited stormlight. He may be racing the storm itself.

But the stormlight is not enough. He reaches close to the shin but feels the light running out before that. He is tired, he closes his eyes, he falls. 

And then the stormfather feels empathy and stops for him. And then,

IDK, kal becomes a 5th ideal radiant? A cognitive shadow? Merge with the stormfather? A herald? Honor? The Son of Tanavast(whatever that is)??

Idk what or why or when it happens, i think I know HOW it happens.

Final hoid quotes

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Wit smiled. “All stories told have been told before. We tell them to ourselves, as did all men who ever were. And all men who ever will be. The only things new are the names.”

Quote

“What does it mean?” Kaladin whispered.
“It’s your story. You decide.”

Fleet is kal's own story too.

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You're making a lot of fascinating connections. With any other author, I'd saying you're reading too much into the story, but this is Brandon, so.... maaayybe. Cool idea. 

One nitpick:

2 hours ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

In book 5, kal will at some point have to fly from Natanatan to shinovar at top speed, maybe to warn the shin,  but with limited stormlight. He may be racing the storm itself.

But the stormlight is not enough. He reaches close to the shin but feels the light running out before that. He is tired, he closes his eyes, he falls. 

And then the stormfather feels empathy and stops for him.

If Kal is racing the storm, he doesn't have limited Stormlight. Being in a highstorm refills Stormlight constantly. If Kal's ahead of the storm, then he could run out, but then the Stormfather stopping the storm would kill him, because his power source wouldn't catch up before he hit the ground. 

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12 minutes ago, Luckspren said:

If Kal is racing the storm, he doesn't have limited Stormlight. Being in a highstorm refills Stormlight constantly. If Kal's ahead of the storm, then he could run out, but then the Stormfather stopping the storm would kill him, because his power source wouldn't catch up before he hit the ground. 

Maybe It's not Highstorm, it's Everstorm. He races with Everstorm, that's why his Stormlight goes out. It is more likely that he has to go from Shinovar to Natanatan.

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47 minutes ago, Jerfier said:

Maybe It's not Highstorm, it's Everstorm. He races with Everstorm, that's why his Stormlight goes out. It is more likely that he has to go from Shinovar to Natanatan.

The Stormfather has no ability to stop the Everstorm. 

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I like this being kaladin ascending into honor. Especially the part of him holding back the storms the only time we have seen anything like this is when odium rode the storm and mentions of honor riding storms. Not even Dalinar was able to make the storms stop, just move his “sight” to go further within it.

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1 hour ago, Jerfier said:

Maybe It's not Highstorm, it's Everstorm. He races with Everstorm, that's why his Stormlight goes out. It is more likely that he has to go from Shinovar to Natanatan.

The Everstorm moves in the opposite direction as the Highstorm. Kal can't fly to Shinovar ahead of it unless he goes around the world. But it would be much easier, and faster to just fly the stormward direction.

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, Luckspren said:

If Kal is racing the storm, he doesn't have limited Stormlight. Being in a highstorm refills Stormlight constantly. If Kal's ahead of the storm, then he could run out, but then the Stormfather stopping the storm would kill him, because his power source wouldn't catch up before he hit the ground

This admittedly needs a bit of context as it is dependent on the theory that stormlight will suddenly be unavailable atleast in book 5, prolly due to the contest of champions.  The idea is that the shadesmar sun will set, which will cause there to be no more stormlight. This creates a Long Weeping called a night of Sorrows. I made a full theory on it long ago but I have changed my mind on a lot of things. Back then I thought stormfather would sacrifice himself and cause the night of sorrows which clearly is not my theory is anymore. 

https://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/99266-night-of-sorrows-migration-to-shadesmar-theory/

If you want something other than the theory consider this. Kal's death scare moment will happen near the end of the book, meaning after the contest of champions(which happens in only 10 days). There is no way the contest ends in a victory, since that would completely solve any problems forever. We still have 5 books to go in SA. This implies that Dalinar will almost def fail. That implies that he will become a fused too. Are we sure the stormfather will be unaffected by this? It's more likely to me that the stormfather might be very hurt.

Stormlight might become limited.

Quote

I like this being kaladin ascending into honor. Especially the part of him holding back the storms the only time we have seen anything like this is when odium rode the storm and mentions of honor riding storms. Not even Dalinar was able to make the storms stop, just move his “sight” to go further within it.

Tbf, my theory was more along the lines of stormfather showing mercy rather than kal holding back the storm, but I do agree this seems like the perfect moment to make kal honor, if Brandon has planned that.

Edited by KaladinWorldsinger
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10 hours ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

“So in that land of dirt and soil, our hero stopped the storm itself

I'd like to draw attention to the fact that the only part of Roshar with much soil is Shinovar which is a very good lead up to book 5 and Szeth returning to Shinovar

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Posted (edited)

6 hours ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

  There is no way the contest ends in a victory, since that would completely solve any problems forever. We still have 5 books to go in SA. This implies that Dalinar will almost def fail. That implies that he will become a fused too. Are we sure the stormfather will be unaffected by this? It's more likely to me that the stormfather might be very hurt.

Stormlight might become limited.

My guess is that it wont be a straightforward victory or a straightforward defeat - either the terms will be broken or exploited in some way so that neither side wins, or Dalinar technically wins but T-Odium pulls something else.

There's a hint at the end of RoW that T-Odium sees a way to 'win' regardless of the outcome of the contest that Rayse-Odium wouldn't have.

Although the main reason I doubt that Dalinar will simply win is that I don't expect RoW to just cover 10 days... the contest won't resolve *that* much. Odium stays around as a threat, but still bound to Braize, regardless of the outcome.

And Stormlight 5 is the end of an arc. It could be a situation where it looks like victory to most people but there are hints of larger problems to come (like the end of the first Mistborn book).

Edited by cometaryorbit
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Posted (edited)

Kaladin has actually "stopped" the highstorm before - or at least stopped it in a small area by parting the winds:

Quote

Consumed by his pain and feelings of betrayal, Kaladin surged with Stormlight and flung his hand forward as if to try to push back the wind itself.

A hundred windspren spun in as lines of light, twisting around his arm, wrapping it like ribbons. They surged with Light, then exploded outward in a blinding sheet, sweeping to Kaladin’s sides and parting the winds around him.

Kaladin stood with his hand toward the tempest, and deflected it. Like a stone in a swift-moving river stopped the waters, he opened a pocket in the storm, creating a calm wake behind him.

The storm raged against him, but he held the point in a formation of windspren that spread from him like wings, diverting the storm.

Oathbringer by Brandon Sanderson

Right before this, he demanded that the Stormfather stopped and had mercy on the people caught in the storm.

He did something similar when swearing the fourth ideal, so it's probably also foreshadowing him getting plate, but I thought it fit well with the Fleet angle as well.

Edited by Wrae
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8 hours ago, Frustration said:

The Everstorm moves in the opposite direction as the Highstorm. Kal can't fly to Shinovar ahead of it unless he goes around the world. But it would be much easier, and faster to just fly the stormward direction.

I think the point is to say that Kal is flying from Shinovar in this situation, instead of to there.

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Posted (edited)

I take the fleet story more as a metaphor. Kaldin is running from the shattered plains (natanatan) to shinovar (book 5) [urithiru is in the middle approximately] and the storm always almost catch him, meaning he is almost succumb to depression and to internal broken parts of himself, and in shinovar is arc is at end. 

I like the death rattle you chose for his 5th ideal very much! It has so many interesting interpretations. Maybe "the death is my life" means he understand that it can be right to kill to protect, or maybe the other way around, he understand that he need to stop making death and killing his way of life. The journey has ended can be interpreted accordingly, one option is that he become 5th ideal radiant and the other- he die [nooooooooo!!!]

Edited by Bnaya
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12 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

the contest won't resolve *that* much. Odium stays around as a threat, but still bound to Braize, regardless of the outcome.

Whether win or lose, the contract guarantees that there will be no more hostilities between the two sides. In that case, it is very likely that odium somehow makes Dalinar break the contract, since that's the only way hostilities can remain in the story at this point. 

12 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

And Stormlight 5 is the end of an arc. It could be a situation where it looks like victory to most people but there are hints of larger problems to come (like the end of the first Mistborn book).

While I expect the contest of champions to end in total failure for our heroes, i agree that the ending will still be a victory. Especially because ending an arc on a loss and not coming back to the world for 5 years might make people lose interest.

12 hours ago, Wrae said:

Kaladin has actually "stopped" the highstorm before - or at least stopped it in a small area by parting the winds:

But they are all small, localised events in an area. The fact that kaladin has stopped the storm partially twice might be foreshadowing that he will inspire the stormfather to stop the entire storm for him. It will be the stormfather's choice and his arc will be completed.

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On 01.08.2022 at 7:09 PM, Frustration said:

The Everstorm moves in the opposite direction as the Highstorm. Kal can't fly to Shinovar ahead of it unless he goes around the world. But it would be much easier, and faster to just fly the stormward direction.

I already said maybe he will fly to Natanatan rather then Shinovar.

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I think some of this is pretty spot on!

I’ve long thought Kal will die in book 5. His death needs to have lasting impact though. So something like reforging the Oathpact or making a new Oathpact, seems impactful.
 

 How about: as a result of Dalinar losing the contest of champions Stormfather had to sacrifice himself so Kal becoming another version of a Stormfather?

Perhaps Kal willingly becoming another Herald and choosing imprisonment on Braize?

These all fit semi well into your theory here!

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