Tamriel Wolfsbaine

Does returning allow you to retain powers?

8 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

I feel like I read that becoming lifeless would break your spren bond.  Would becoming returned also leave those bonds broken?   

Would you retain genetic powers if you were to get returned via divine breath?   Allomancy or feruchemy?   

If someone were to snap right as they were dying into a mistborn and then get returned would mistborn powers manifest in the now returned person?   

I know memories of how to use powers might fade away... but would they lie dormant waiting to be rerealized?  

Edited by Tamriel Wolfsbaine
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Posted (edited)

If you return you'll probably lose AonDor and Dakkor enhancement since your body gets kind of reset and you might lose spren bonds because you died but you should keep the rest

Edited by mathiau
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Posted (edited)

Read that entirely wrong...

Generally speaking No.  I think it's mostly because there is so little Investiture left running the corpse that there's barely enough to Charge a Spike, which likely means there isnt enough to support additional Powers.  But if you could overcharge the Lifeless there's a chance they'd no longer be Lifeless and could then possibly get some of that back (along with skills and maybe memories, from what normal Lifeless have).

 

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little wilson

Can a Mistborn turned into a Lifeless still use Allomancy?

Brandon Sanderson

*long-ish pause* Uh, no.

little wilson

So I would assume that is the same for a Feruchemist?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah if you-- taking some-- Yeah.  No they can't.

Holiday signing (Dec. 12, 2015)

 

 

 

 

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Pechvarry (paraphrased)

Could you make a spike from a Lifeless?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

"Oooo interesting!" He said their soul is so drained there wouldn't be much left, so you could only get the barest hint.

Pechvarry (paraphrased)

But you COULD technically get a charge?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes, but it would be very weak.

Words of Radiance Dayton signing (March 19, 2014)

 

 

 

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Wyrmhero (paraphrased)

Can you could Hemalurgically spike a dead thing, similar to how Breath goes into dead things? Could you spike a Lifeless?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes, if there was enough of the soul left for the spike to take.

London signing (Aug. 4, 2014)

 

 

 

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AndyGranny

If you used a Lifeless body, would a Lifeless be able to access an untapped metalmind...

Brandon Sanderson

An unkeyed type of metalmind?

AndyGranny

Thank you, I could not think of that word. Would they be able to access an unkeyed metalmind if the intent when the Lifeless was created, if the intent was that they could...

Brandon Sanderson

Right, I see what you're getting at. Yes, they could. As they could access and use any tool that is appropriate for what they're Commanded to do, they could indeed access a metalmind in the same way.

In fact, doing so may, depending on the metalmind, be dangerous for keeping your Lifeless a Lifeless.

JordanCon 2021 (July 17, 2021)

 

   

Edited by Quantus
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1 minute ago, Quantus said:

Generally speaking No.  I think it's mostly because there is so little Investiture left running the corpse that there's barely enough to Charge a Spike, which likely means there isnt enough to support additional Powers.  But if you could overcharge the Lifeless there's a chance they'd no longer be Lifeless and could then possibly get some of that back (along with skills and maybe memories, from what normal Lifeless have).

Yes, Lifeless only have one breath worth investiture which is very little.

Returned on the other hand have two thousand breaths worth of investiture so the conclusion is probably different

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3 minutes ago, mathiau said:

Yes, Lifeless only have one breath worth investiture which is very little.

Returned on the other hand have two thousand breaths worth of investiture so the conclusion is probably different

Completely read that wrong, sorry.

For the Bond, WOB says Investiture interferes with Investiture so it would be difficult to make one, and would also probably Break.  But Nale proves that a Cogntive shadow can Bond, so it's probably not impossible.  For The Metallic Arts, I cant find WOBs on it but I think Feruchemy is more likely than Allomancy since Allomancy uses and requires a Connection to Preservation, and becoming "overstuffed" with Endowment's Investiture may interfere or break that.  But since Returning is a process chosen and managed by Endowment herself, she could probably just Choose to make it work if she wanted to.  

 

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Steeldancer

This is hypothetical, it probably wouldn't actually happen. If a Knight Radiant goes to Nalthis, dies, gets Returned...

Brandon Sanderson

It could happen.

Steeldancer

Would they retain their spren bond?

Brandon Sanderson

Probably not, would be my guess. I've never had that question before, but I'm gonna say no.

FanX 2021 (Sept. 18, 2021)

 

 

 

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Argent

Can a Returned like Lightsong go to Roshar and form a bond with a spren?

Brandon Sanderson

Investiture interferes with other Investiture.

Argent

And they have a lot of it.

Brandon Sanderson

And they have a lot of it. That is not-- It's not completely-- For instance you can Push on Invested metal, but it's hard. There's a resistance, the more Invested the harder-- So a bond for instance-- forming a bond-- It's, yeah-- It can be done--

I mean Sazed took two of the powers up, right? But I kind of imagine what he did as a nuclear reaction. Where breaking an atom is hard, unless you are in the middle of a sun. And he was in the middle of the sun. At that point--

Argent

There was a lot of stuff going on around him that facilitated.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, definitely. But when you've got that much power you'll-- In other words if there is a lot of power going around, these things become easier.

Argent

So, possible but difficult is--

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Firefight Chicago signing (Feb. 20, 2015)

 

 
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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, Quantus said:

Completely read that wrong, sorry.

For the Bond, WOB says Investiture interferes with Investiture so it would be difficult to make one, and would also probably Break.  But Nale proves that a Cogntive shadow can Bond, so it's probably not impossible. 

We also knew that Dawnslivers can bound spren and it's almost certain Dawnshard can too so a Returned becoming a Radiant would probably "just" be hard

Though to be fair the only person we know became a Radiant after becoming a Dawnsliver had access to F-Nicrosil and C-Duralumin which would probably help with this issue

Quote

For The Metallic Arts, I cant find WOBs on it but I think Feruchemy is more likely than Allomancy since Allomancy uses and requires a Connection to Preservation, and becoming "overstuffed" with Endowment's Investiture may interfere or break that.  But since Returning is a process chosen and managed by Endowment herself, she could probably just Choose to make it work if she wanted to. 

Feruchemy uses and require a Connection to Harmony just like Allomancy does (it is not necessarily obvious but things like F-steel would break conservation of energy otherwise)

Considering the Connection required by these two is stored in the sDNA and is strong enough to be passed to the same generation I feel like it'd be much harder to break than a Radiant bound.

If it is possible to destroy it/weaken it by Returning then Ferruchemy is indeed more likely to stay than Allomancy because there is no concept of Ferruchemical power, it does not dillute, so weakening it wouldn't do much

Edited by mathiau
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2 minutes ago, mathiau said:

Feruchemy uses and require a Connection to Harmony just like Allomancy does (it is not necessarily obvious but things like F-steel would break conservation of energy otherwise)

That's not really an issue, lots of things in the Cosmere can break conservation of Energy (and Mass, etc) since Investiture is an equal 3rd to Matter and Energy at a root reletivity level.

 

2 minutes ago, mathiau said:

Considering the Connection required by these two is stored in the sDNA and is strong enough to be passed to the same generation I feel like it'd be much harder to break than a Radiant bound.

If it is possible to destroy it/weaken it by Returning then Ferruchemy is indeed more likely to stay than Allomancy because there is no concept of Ferruchemical power, it does not dillute, so weakening it wouldn't do much

As far as the Connection required for feruchemy vs Allomancy, Im more talking about the fact that Allomancy requires and ongoing Connection to Preservation/Harmony to fuel it, a connection that the Metal opens each time to that External Source.  By contrast feruchemy is powered by the more "natural" interrealmic Connections of being a sentient living being.  Im seeing it as similar to how Forgery could make a person an allomancer but cant actually support or provide the Investiture to power it.  

 

 

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Questioner

Could a Forger re-write their history to adjust the kind of metal they burn as an Allomancer?

Brandon Sanderson

They could, but it actually wouldn't do anything, because the magic would not be able to replicate the other magic.

Questioner

So they would not be able to re-write history in the necessary way?

Brandon Sanderson

They would not be able to. I mean they could, but it wouldn’t have an effect, does that make sense? It would do nothing, it would be like you can create the stamp, the stamp would look like it was working but you just wouldn't end up with Allomancy.

Holiday signing (Dec. 12, 2015)

 

 
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7 hours ago, Quantus said:

That's not really an issue, lots of things in the Cosmere can break conservation of Energy (and Mass, etc) since Investiture is an equal 3rd to Matter and Energy at a root reletivity level.

The point is that energy is still needed to come from preservations power, thus a connection is needed, just as much as for a mistborn.

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