Yumiya Posted July 25, 2022 Report Share Posted July 25, 2022 Since Sanderson completely nixed one of the prevailing theories on the cause of the return of the Radiants and the start of the True Desolation (WOB), I started looking into what the actual cause might have been. Per Jasnah's lecture, "The old ways are returning, and I don't see it as a hopeful sign. It's an act of self-preservation. The spren sense impending danger, and so they return to us." This means the spren choose when to start reforming the Radiants. So how do they choose when? I assume when one of the Heralds break has been the traditional way. But, I theorize that no herald broke this time. All nine still on Roshar have not died since the Last Desolation and then broken. When one Herald breaks, all Heralds are returned to Roshar. Therefore, if one of them had died, they would have had to break at least a decade before Taln returns, and Sanderson says he was only back a couple of months at most before showing up at Kholinar. Spren were showing up well before Taln. Shallan had sworn at least the first ideal with Testament by the time of Gavilar's death. Around the same time, Seth had already heard whispers from a spren and been exiled as Truthless. Jasnah had already been feeling Inkspren eyes on her for months. And shortly before, Kalidan had picked up a spear for the first time and Tien was being courted by a cryptic. What danger did the spren sense then? The Sons of Honor. Well, specifically what Gavilar set in motion while trying to obtain Anti-Void light. He sent someone through Shadesmar, through one of the perpendicularities. Once there, his envoys would have needed spren assistance to get to Braize and pull off the heist. Rumors of what they were doing probably began to spread, causing the spren orders to start trying to reform the Radiants. We know Gavilar had the gemstones by the night he died, and most likely not a huge time earlier than that (else he would have already met with Restares). So, a couple of months or years, to account travel in and then out and back to Gavilar could explain the time gap. Thaidakar mentions that he had set things in motion, but had not done much. What did he do? Possibly just the spread of false rumors in shadesmar. Sounds a lot like him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezzik Posted July 25, 2022 Report Share Posted July 25, 2022 Why do you assume the theory is shot down? As I was watching the stream, it looked like Brandon was trolling. He very specifically did not answer. Spoiler Questioner Was Shallan's mom a Herald? Brandon Sanderson What would make you ask that? Adam The chat. Brandon Sanderson Why would they ask that? The Stormfather said that the Heralds-- that that's impossible. His two responses were another question, and an in-world (and therefore fallible) character's opinion. Back in the day, Brandon referred to the man from the epilogue to WoK as "the man who calls himself taln" because he didn't want to confirm or deny whether the person was an actual herald or just crazy. Until Brandon specifically says "as the author, I'm telling you that's not Chana" it's still valid, imho. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormingTexan Posted July 25, 2022 Report Share Posted July 25, 2022 Yes I completely agree with @Fezzik. The answer to that question was miss-direction by Brandon by using an in-world assumption which we know are not always 100% reliable. He has been pretty dodgy on the subject of Shallan in relation to her family/mother and I think the SA5 Prologue all but confirmed the theory some have had for a while now. I would be shocked if we do not get 100% confirmation Chana is Shallan's mother in SA5. Quote windpunner Is Shallan’s mother Invested/someone we know of, or just a woman who got involved with the Skybreakers? Did she ever get involved with the Ghostbloods? Brandon Sanderson Mmm, very interesting questions, RAFO. YouTube Spoiler Stream 3 (Dec. 16, 2021) Quote -stormlightning- Did Helaran know Shallan was becoming a Surgebinder? Brandon Sanderson RAFO. That whole thing with Shallan's family, there's still some wrinkles back there, there's some wrinkles you haven't seen yet. YouTube Spoiler Stream 3 (Dec. 16, 2021) Quote LeftImBorn (paraphrased) Is Chana Shallan's Mom? Peter Ahlstrom (paraphrased) RAFO. Dragonsteel Mini-Con 2021 (Nov. 22, 2021) Quote Wetlander Speaking of the other Prologues… I have a looney theory that the assassin Liss is actually the Herald Chana in disguise. Peter Ahlstrom Chanaranach has definitely been seen onscreen by at least one character at least one time in the first two books. Miscellaneous 2017 (June 1, 2017) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yumiya Posted July 25, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2022 11 hours ago, Fezzik said: it looked like Brandon was trolling I went and watched it. It seemed more like bafflement to me. My take was he starts to say something about the Stormfather, then backtracks to that it is impossible. No RAFO, just impossible. There is also this other WOB that seems to imply that he has not decided how Heralds would have children. Quote OddBen11 Is the secret way that the God King in Warbreaker can have children the same way that the Heralds can? Brandon Sanderson *long series of uncertain sounds* No...? But there could be... I'm just gonna say no. But interesting theorizing, and it's possible that I could change my mind. YouTube Spoiler Stream 4 (June 16, 2022) If he had a child of a Herald as a character as central to the plot as Shallan, he would have worked out how that would have worked. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezzik Posted July 25, 2022 Report Share Posted July 25, 2022 I think we have to agree to disagree again, because that seems like he hasn't worked out how the god kings can have kids, rather than the heralds. He knows how the heralds can have kids (as of 2020): Spoiler Racedogg2 Are Heralds are capable of procreation? Brandon Sanderson Yes. Not necessarily saying in the traditional way, but yes, Heralds are capable of procreation. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/452/#e14507 We have seen all ten heralds onscreen in the first two books, and Shallan's mother counts as being onscreen for the last WoB texas posted: Spoiler LeftImBorn (paraphrased) Would you say that Shallan's mom counts in being in Way of Kings or Words of Radiance? Peter Ahlstrom (paraphrased) I would say that, yeah. Footnote: The questioner is trying to get at whether Shallan's mother qualifies for the subject of a previous Word of Peter. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/479/#e15252 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sjsharks93 Posted July 26, 2022 Report Share Posted July 26, 2022 Yeah, Brandon's answer to me seemed like he had heard of the theory and was messing with fans 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mzuka Posted July 27, 2022 Report Share Posted July 27, 2022 100% @StormingTexan plus his tone is clearly coy/joking in the clip. @Yumiya the SA5 prologue all but conformed it, especially when you consider the colour of Chana's hair being specifically brought up in the prologue- there is no reason to do that as a writer unless it's relevant, particularly when you consider how Brandon views foreshadowing. There's also the timing of the death (we know Shallan's Mum died on the same day), and how neatly this explains why her mum tried to kill her (probably following Ishar's instructions like Nale). Also love how Brandon scattered number of little clues and winks throughout the text, such as: Quote "Shallan was apparently no longer an outsider, but one of Navani’s clutch—and Chana help the man or woman who stood between Navani and one of her own." Words of Radiance: The Stormlight Archive Book Two: 2 (p. 886). Orion. Kindle Edition. Chana is only mentioned by name twice in the first 4 books, and both involve Shallan - either in reference or conversation. For me, the prologue was as close to definitive confirmation of her parentage as we can get prior to the release. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Why Kaladin? Posted July 27, 2022 Report Share Posted July 27, 2022 On 7/24/2022 at 6:54 PM, Yumiya said: This means the spren choose when to start reforming the Radiants. So how do they choose when? I assume when one of the Heralds break has been the traditional way. But, I theorize that no herald broke this time. All nine still on Roshar have not died since the Last Desolation and then broken. The problem with this is that the Oathpact is broken. They changed it to leave Taln behind since he was the only one who never broke, the other Heralds were already on Roshar and had been for several thousand years. I think the spren did not choose when to come back some of them had been trying for a while and Nale had just been killing their Radiants. What happened was that we got some people high up enough or off the radar enough to survive and be able to progress through their oaths. The return of the Desolations just gave some spren a bit more of a push to try out the old ways they were very wary of this due to the Day of Recreance. I don't think we should trust what Jasnah says we know from other books that she can be wrong. To think that she is an authority on spren is not very accurate she knows very little and only from 1 spren she is only getting 1 point of view and trusting that view completely. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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