Jump to content

Shards involved in the Secret Project worlds


Benkinsky

Recommended Posts

I wouldn't be surprised if there was a post like this already. I didn't find any, but if there are, mods feel free to move or delete this!

So, i recently got around to reading the chapters we have so far of SP 1 2 and 4. And while one of them namedropped a Shard, the other two are still out, so I wanted to spark the conversation about which Shard's influences we're seeing here.

Tess and the emerald sea: The different seas, the sorceress... Many people expect Aethers here, from what I've gathered. I haven't read Aether of Night, but it seems that the Aethers on this planet, if there are any, relate to the 12 moons somehow and are seperate from the OG Aethers? Which aren't from any shard as far as we know? Or are they? The sorceress sounds like she could fit Dominion, but tbh almost any Fantasy Villain could fit Dominion. If there's knowledge here that I missed and can be discussed openly, I'd be happy to hear it! Someone mentioned Pragmatism sounding like a shard name, and i wouldn't be surprised if Pragmatism would be a shard that coopts anothers system.

Yumi and the Nightmare Painter: Virtuosity. Interesting! Both manifestations of the investiture seem fun, and I already love spirits. Can't wait to think about whether you could Bond them somhow else. It seems that the gift that Yumi has is not genetic, but it is rare. Similar to the Shaod, just randomly chosen? I wonder if it's something super weird, like, your genes have to be an interesting pattern. It seems that basically anyone can become a Nightmare Painter if they have the artistic talent for it, so that makes me wonder whether Yumi's gift could be learned too, I guess we'll see. And we'll see if the planet has these two sides or if there's more distinct versions of Virtuosity Magic. And whether you can take Spirits offworld!

The Sunlit Man: The big one. Already multiple worlds being namedropped and appearing, Roshar, Scadrial, Taldain, Threnody... The people here are descendants of Threnodians/they are Threnodians. But is the magic? Nomad compares the sun giving power with Taldain, but we know this is a seperate system. @Miltank_drink wondered if the sun is the grave of a highly invested person or the site of a splintering. That would be super interesting! I don't think we've had the first part yet, but someone like a Godking giving up their life or being killed to set free their Investiture in a form like this would be insanely cool and also a great mythos for the world. The people on this world are certainly brave and ambitious, so Valor or Ambition being involved wouldn't surprise me either. I assume not all of Ambitions Investiture is near/on Threnody, but it's probably mostly in the same system. Makes you wonder which way round things happened. Did Ambitions power settle here too, investing the sun, and that lead Threnodians to come here/discover this planet? Or did they leave the Homeland, and ended up on a planet invested by another power, be that a Shard, Avatar or the grave of someone from another world? If a giant elder spren bonded with a Shard's cognitive shadow can dispense investiture, who's to say there's not a giant elder invested being (Spirit, Spren, Splinter, whatever) bonded to/making up the sun and perpetually burning and imbuing this planet. To funnel my thoughts and open discussion, here's a few shards I thought of here:

  • Cultivation: Plants blooming within a day, then burning up again. Would have to be in a future where Cultivation is not fully busy on Roshar. Then again, we don't know she is during SA anyway.
  • Valor: The pit fights, and Invested People being those that proved themselves in trial and get rewarded for it with power, that could be Valor. Living here certainly needs some bravery. I wonder if some Threnodians were searching for other powers to combat or reign in Ambitions volatile power, and found this planet. We (the readers) know that Odium wants Roshar as a training ground, i would not be surprised if Valor had a planet or multiple planets like these that they see as a proving ground. Maybe the Threnodians hoped to prove themselves, become chosen by Valor, and then return to the Threnodian system with it, Anchoring it there somehow? Maybe I'm speculating too much.
  • Ambition: They're from Threnody. Ambitions is dead and chunks of it are in different places. Who's to say this small planets burning hot sun isn't from Ambitions power or invested with it? It could be a system fairly close to Threnody, but not the same system.
  • Dominion? I don't know how that would work, but the Cinder King certainly seems dominant. If the IRE can exist outside Sel somehow, who's to say this planet doesn't have some influence from Dominion (and Devotion?). The Ember Knights with their red glowing embers, obedience to the Cinder King, winning in a trial, those all have themes of Dominion and Devotion too. Makes you wonder if the Ember Knights are Svrakiss, taking over bodies...
  • Autonomy: She likes to put Avatars in places. Her main planet is locked between daytime and nighttime, and for sure the people on this planet have to live autonomously if you want to put it like that. Cities made up of individual parts that can break out of them, never resting, never settling to grow farms.

So, what do others think, what shards could be involved in the worlds and magics we've been exposed to here?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tress/Lumar: yeah, I think Aethers are not associated with a specific Shard and are probably pre-Shattering. There's a WoB that they claim not to be from Adonalsium, which is super weird because all Investiture is from Adonalsium... maybe that's a boast based on the grain of truth that they're pre-Shattering?

--

Sunlit Man: Ambition was mortally wounded in the Threnody system but actually died elsewhere, so this could be the actual place of death. I can totally see Valor also. Or an avatar of Autonomy given the Taldain similarity.

Though I also think that this might be a pre Shattering, Adonalsium designed setup... but even then the Investiture would presumably be "associated with" one or more Shards post Shattering.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

SP4 is maybe Invention
Reasoning: When I first saw the world I thought of the English proverb "Necessity is the mother of invention". This is a world where necessity demands people come up with ingenious tech solutions in order to survive. People have been frantically inventing things as to outrun the sun, and in order to do so, they have invented quite a few methods to make that work. The sun is providing absolutely stunning amounts of raw power, and the people of the planet need only to find ways to harness it either through tech or magitech. 

The world could also be viewed as a semi-closed system laboratory. There seems to be something preventing people from leaving this planet. For example, despite all the flying ship cities, it does not appear people are actively leaving the area. I mean, maybe they are, but combined with the main-cast's belief time is almost up for them, and with the Scadrian ruins under the surface, I get the impression leaving this place is quite difficult despite the high-end tech. This makes me thing of a "lab" where the subjects are unable to leave their experiment cage, so to speak. The world is quite brutal to its inhabitants, but the quest for science and invention can be quite brutal without a counterbalancing ethical principle. 

As for the tech from other worlds, it could either be people stumbling upon this place and being sucked-in indefinitely, or some Invention-entity reaching out and finding new materials/magics for the experimenters to play with. 

MERCY: My other thought is that perhaps Mercy brought some people from Threnody here since Mercy was involved in the Ambition battle and perhaps  could explain how a presumably low-tech people got to this strange place before whatever went wrong in Threnody forever changed the inhabitants there. 

Edited by teknopathetic
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think SP1 world or SP4 world are the shardworld for a specific shard, at the very least. Aethers have been around pre-shattering, supposedly, and at the shattering the investiture got assigned to shards but aethers as a whole might not be associated with any one shard, it could be a whole smorgasbord. Aethers seem to maybe be kinda their own thing. Similarly, SP4 might not be a world that was consciously chosen to be invested by a shard. There are dozens of inhabited planets out in the cosmere and they only really become associated with a shard when a shard goes "hmm wait i have some investiture here maybe i can do something with that". But the star is so powerful I guess that probably does indicate something more shardic going on.

15 hours ago, Johnny Silverlight said:

The sun alone would make leaving the Sunlit Man planet difficult. Once your spacecraft leaves the shadow of the planet, it would be fully exposed to the light/heat/Investiture of the sun, without even an atmosphere to shield it.

Like cometaryorbit mentioned, if you have a way to travel to and from the cognitive realm somehow, that shouldn't be an issue. But the scadrians we know were there probably went through the physical realm, since based on various wobs and stuff we've seen that seems to be how they usually go. So they probably used heat shielding, with feruchemic brass,

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/13/2022 at 7:26 AM, Benkinsky said:

I wouldn't be surprised if there was a post like this already. I didn't find any, but if there are, mods feel free to move or delete this!

So, i recently got around to reading the chapters we have so far of SP 1 2 and 4. And while one of them namedropped a Shard, the other two are still out, so I wanted to spark the conversation about which Shard's influences we're seeing here.

Tess and the emerald sea: The different seas, the sorceress... Many people expect Aethers here, from what I've gathered. I haven't read Aether of Night, but it seems that the Aethers on this planet, if there are any, relate to the 12 moons somehow and are seperate from the OG Aethers? Which aren't from any shard as far as we know? Or are they? The sorceress sounds like she could fit Dominion, but tbh almost any Fantasy Villain could fit Dominion. If there's knowledge here that I missed and can be discussed openly, I'd be happy to hear it! Someone mentioned Pragmatism sounding like a shard name, and i wouldn't be surprised if Pragmatism would be a shard that coopts anothers system.

Yumi and the Nightmare Painter: Virtuosity. Interesting! Both manifestations of the investiture seem fun, and I already love spirits. Can't wait to think about whether you could Bond them somhow else. It seems that the gift that Yumi has is not genetic, but it is rare. Similar to the Shaod, just randomly chosen? I wonder if it's something super weird, like, your genes have to be an interesting pattern. It seems that basically anyone can become a Nightmare Painter if they have the artistic talent for it, so that makes me wonder whether Yumi's gift could be learned too, I guess we'll see. And we'll see if the planet has these two sides or if there's more distinct versions of Virtuosity Magic. And whether you can take Spirits offworld!

The Sunlit Man: The big one. Already multiple worlds being namedropped and appearing, Roshar, Scadrial, Taldain, Threnody... The people here are descendants of Threnodians/they are Threnodians. But is the magic? Nomad compares the sun giving power with Taldain, but we know this is a seperate system. @Miltank_drink wondered if the sun is the grave of a highly invested person or the site of a splintering. That would be super interesting! I don't think we've had the first part yet, but someone like a Godking giving up their life or being killed to set free their Investiture in a form like this would be insanely cool and also a great mythos for the world. The people on this world are certainly brave and ambitious, so Valor or Ambition being involved wouldn't surprise me either. I assume not all of Ambitions Investiture is near/on Threnody, but it's probably mostly in the same system. Makes you wonder which way round things happened. Did Ambitions power settle here too, investing the sun, and that lead Threnodians to come here/discover this planet? Or did they leave the Homeland, and ended up on a planet invested by another power, be that a Shard, Avatar or the grave of someone from another world? If a giant elder spren bonded with a Shard's cognitive shadow can dispense investiture, who's to say there's not a giant elder invested being (Spirit, Spren, Splinter, whatever) bonded to/making up the sun and perpetually burning and imbuing this planet. To funnel my thoughts and open discussion, here's a few shards I thought of here:

  • Cultivation: Plants blooming within a day, then burning up again. Would have to be in a future where Cultivation is not fully busy on Roshar. Then again, we don't know she is during SA anyway.
  • Valor: The pit fights, and Invested People being those that proved themselves in trial and get rewarded for it with power, that could be Valor. Living here certainly needs some bravery. I wonder if some Threnodians were searching for other powers to combat or reign in Ambitions volatile power, and found this planet. We (the readers) know that Odium wants Roshar as a training ground, i would not be surprised if Valor had a planet or multiple planets like these that they see as a proving ground. Maybe the Threnodians hoped to prove themselves, become chosen by Valor, and then return to the Threnodian system with it, Anchoring it there somehow? Maybe I'm speculating too much.
  • Ambition: They're from Threnody. Ambitions is dead and chunks of it are in different places. Who's to say this small planets burning hot sun isn't from Ambitions power or invested with it? It could be a system fairly close to Threnody, but not the same system.
  • Dominion? I don't know how that would work, but the Cinder King certainly seems dominant. If the IRE can exist outside Sel somehow, who's to say this planet doesn't have some influence from Dominion (and Devotion?). The Ember Knights with their red glowing embers, obedience to the Cinder King, winning in a trial, those all have themes of Dominion and Devotion too. Makes you wonder if the Ember Knights are Svrakiss, taking over bodies...
  • Autonomy: She likes to put Avatars in places. Her main planet is locked between daytime and nighttime, and for sure the people on this planet have to live autonomously if you want to put it like that. Cities made up of individual parts that can break out of them, never resting, never settling to grow farms.

So, what do others think, what shards could be involved in the worlds and magics we've been exposed to here?

 

I think your forgetting about ruin. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, LightweaverWannabe said:

I think maybe the Sunlit Man is the Survival Shard's world it would make sense since you have to be constantly moving to survive and how it drives everyone there to constantly struggle to survive it seems like something that would work with the Intent.

We know that the survival shard isn't the Shard "Survival" though. The Survival shard is a shard that wanted to survive and has since realized that just hiding and surviving is not the best course of action.

 

On 17.7.2022 at 3:38 PM, bmcclure7 said:

I think your forgetting about ruin. 

*you're. Care to explain further? Which planet do you mean, and why? i didn't consider Ruin and Preservation since I think it'll be a while until we get to see either of them alone again, if ever. And if you mean the Sunlit planet, then it wouldn't be very in character for ruin (or Preservation, for that sense) to have the destructive sunlight also help plants grow

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Benkinsky said:

We know that the survival shard isn't the Shard "Survival" though. The Survival shard is a shard that wanted to survive and has since realized that just hiding and surviving is not the best course of action.

 

*you're. Care to explain further? Which planet do you mean, and why? i didn't consider Ruin and Preservation since I think it'll be a while until we get to see either of them alone again, if ever. And if you mean the Sunlit planet, then it wouldn't be very in character for ruin (or Preservation, for that sense) to have the destructive sunlight also help plants grow

 Why would it be out of character for ruin I was thinking that's exactly what he would do. 

I say ruin because 

1. The magic system is very close to hymoergy.

(The invested warriors vs inquisitors)

2. Magic system is inherently destructive.

3. It opens you up to mindcontrol something so far only ruin can do.

4. There is evidence that Scadrians were on this planet at some time. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 13.7.2022 at 2:26 PM, Benkinsky said:

So, i recently got around to reading the chapters we have so far of SP 1 2 and 4. And while one of them namedropped a Shard, the other two are still out, so I wanted to spark the conversation about which Shard's influences we're seeing here.

On SP#1 and SP#4 I would say: none

On 13.7.2022 at 2:26 PM, Benkinsky said:

Tess and the emerald sea: The different seas, the sorceress... Many people expect Aethers here, from what I've gathered. I haven't read Aether of Night, but it seems that the Aethers on this planet, if there are any, relate to the 12 moons somehow and are seperate from the OG Aethers? Which aren't from any shard as far as we know? Or are they? The sorceress sounds like she could fit Dominion, but tbh almost any Fantasy Villain could fit Dominion. If there's knowledge here that I missed and can be discussed openly, I'd be happy to hear it! Someone mentioned Pragmatism sounding like a shard name, and i wouldn't be surprised if Pragmatism would be a shard that coopts anothers system.

This will not work.  The premise of SP#4 rules it out. We are running out of Shards. The Cosmere has too many worlds with Investiture and Invested Arts Sigzil went to without getting himself stranded for lack of fuel for more than a small fraction of them having a Shard in residence. Unless you assume most of the Cosmere being dominated by avatars of Autonomy.

We have just seen the worlds with Shards first, beause that is where the exceptional action is happening. Shards are just not that essential.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/21/2022 at 1:44 AM, Oltux72 said:

We are running out of Shards. The Cosmere has too many worlds with Investiture and Invested Arts Sigzil went to without getting himself stranded for lack of fuel for more than a small fraction of them having a Shard in residence. Unless you assume most of the Cosmere being dominated by avatars of Autonomy.

We have just seen the worlds with Shards first, beause that is where the exceptional action is happening. Shards are just not that essential.

I agree that there are probably lots of worlds with Investiture but no Shard 'in residence'. The Aethers seem to be non-Shardic, and there's probably Adonalsium-era leftover magic lots of places.

But there is likely Shard influence on worlds where they're not fully 'in residence'. Autonomy may not be the only Shard with avatars; some Splinters can travel, though others seem bound to their planet; and there are probably other forms of 'power left behind'. Ashyn is likely Cultivation 'power left behind' though she's 'in residence' on Roshar; Threnody has Ambition and apparently Odium 'power left behind'.

And some Shards may have visited other planets before 'settling down'. We know Odium did, and Returns only starting on Nalthis about 600 years pre Warbreaker is IMO suspicious: Given her Intent tied to giving away power, there could be Splinters of Endowment on half a dozen planets.

While I think the Sunlit Man system is probably Adonalsium-era magic, it could be Ambition's actual death location (which Khriss says was not Threnody) or something.

Edited by cometaryorbit
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

I agree that there are probably lots of worlds with Investiture but no Shard 'in residence'. The Aethers seem to be non-Shardic, and there's probably Adonalsium-era leftover magic lots of places.

But there is likely Shard influence on worlds where they're not fully 'in residence'. Autonomy may not be the only Shard with avatars; some Splinters can travel, though others seem bound to their planet; and there are probably other forms of 'power left behind'. Ashyn is likely Cultivation 'power left behind' though she's 'in residence' on Roshar; Threnody has Ambition and apparently Odium 'power left behind'.

There are sixteen shards. Quite a lot died early. Yet more have trapped each other for millenia. How many planets has Sigzil visited? Dozens? Hundreds? I am afraid we are not talking about four or five planets per Shard, but about dozens.

15 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

And some Shards may have visited other planets before 'settling down'. We know Odium did, and Returns only starting on Nalthis about 600 years pre Warbreaker is IMO suspicious: Given her Intent tied to giving away power, there could be Splinters of Endowment on half a dozen planets.

While I think the Sunlit Man system is probably Adonalsium-era magic, it could be Ambition's actual death location (which Khriss says was not Threnody) or something.

Obviously it could be.

The thing is that we have more clues:

  1. The future space age. First of the Sun is one planet among many to the Ones Above.
  2. Animals and plants other than Aviars on First of the Sun. Magic plants from other islands are not going to cross the ocean to get to that perpendicularity. Magic there is old, as in dozens of millions of years old.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

There are sixteen shards. Quite a lot died early. Yet more have trapped each other for millenia. How many planets has Sigzil visited? Dozens? Hundreds? I am afraid we are not talking about four or five planets per Shard, but about dozens.

Obviously it could be.

The thing is that we have more clues:

  1. The future space age. First of the Sun is one planet among many to the Ones Above.
  2. Animals and plants other than Aviars on First of the Sun. Magic plants from other islands are not going to cross the ocean to get to that perpendicularity. Magic there is old, as in dozens of millions of years old.

I think there are 50-100 planets in the cosmere per WOB (I assume this means planets inhabited by sapient life, not e.g. the ten gas giants in the Roshar system)

So I can easily see say half of them being strongly Shard influenced if not actually 'in residence'

We know of 12 planets with Shards in residence or strong influence from Shards:
 

Spoiler

 

Sel: 2 in residence

Scadrial: 2 in residence

Roshar: 2 in residence

Nalthis: 1 in residence

Braize: 1 in residence

Taldain: 1 in residence

Threnody: influenced by 2

First of the Sun: influenced by 1

Obrodai: influenced by 1

Ashyn: influenced by at least 1, probably

SP#3 planet 1: influenced by 1

SP#3 planet 2: influenced by 1

 

If we assume worlds for at least 4 of Valor, Whimsy, Invention, and Mercy, and the last unknown Shard, and a final Shattering location for Ambition, that gets us to 17.

If there are more Autonomy avatars, another Shard has avatars, and/or Endowment and/or other Shards visited planets before their final destination, there could easily be 25+ with Shardic influence.

In the space age, planets that didn't previously have sapient life (and thus aren't included in the 50-100) could be settled.

I think the question of whether the cosmere is geologically/astronomically old or relatively recently created by Adonalsium is still unresolved; Vasher/Zahel's comment on fossils in RoW kind of suggests older, but fossils can form in say 15000 years so it's not definitive.

Edited by cometaryorbit
fixed math: 17 not 16
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/28/2022 at 3:41 PM, cometaryorbit said:

I think there are 50-100 planets in the cosmere per WOB (I assume this means planets inhabited by sapient life, not e.g. the ten gas giants in the Roshar system)

So I can easily see say half of them being strongly Shard influenced if not actually 'in residence'

We know of 12 planets with Shards in residence or strong influence from Shards:
 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Sel: 2 in residence

Scadrial: 2 in residence

Roshar: 2 in residence

Nalthis: 1 in residence

Braize: 1 in residence

Taldain: 1 in residence

Threnody: influenced by 2

First of the Sun: influenced by 1

Obrodai: influenced by 1

Ashyn: influenced by at least 1, probably

SP#3 planet 1: influenced by 1

SP#3 planet 2: influenced by 1

 

If we assume worlds for at least 4 of Valor, Whimsy, Invention, and Mercy, and the last unknown Shard, and a final Shattering location for Ambition, that gets us to 17.

If there are more Autonomy avatars, another Shard has avatars, and/or Endowment and/or other Shards visited planets before their final destination, there could easily be 25+ with Shardic influence.

In the space age, planets that didn't previously have sapient life (and thus aren't included in the 50-100) could be settled.

I think the question of whether the cosmere is geologically/astronomically old or relatively recently created by Adonalsium is still unresolved; Vasher/Zahel's comment on fossils in RoW kind of suggests older, but fossils can form in say 15000 years so it's not definitive.

Brandon has said a number of times that there are planets with Investiture without shardaic intervention.

"Leftover power from Adonalsium" is how he usually describes it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 28.7.2022 at 11:41 PM, cometaryorbit said:

I think there are 50-100 planets in the cosmere per WOB (I assume this means planets inhabited by sapient life, not e.g. the ten gas giants in the Roshar system)

The WOB actually refers to stars:

Quote

Questioner

Is there a center to the cosmere?

Brandon Sanderson

There isn't a center in the cosmere... I keep calling it a dwarf galaxy but I think they decided it's a cluster, instead of a dwarf galaxy.

Overlord Jebus

Even a dwarf galaxy is still really big.

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, still too big. So we had to call it a cluster. Because we only wanted like what, we came up with 50 or 100 stars? So it's a cluster. Or a really dwarf galaxy.

Emerald City Comic Con 2018 (March 1, 2018)

But I think you're still indirectly right. In the Drominad System essay, Khriss notes that the three inhabited planets in that system are only matched by the Rosharan system, so no more than two inhabited planets per system other than those, it seems. That makes 200 planet at the most - but only if we assume that every system has inhabited planets, which admittedly is unlikely. So 50-100 is probably still a very good guess. (On a side-note: In Secret History, Khriss says there are "dozens" of planets, not hundreds or the likes.)

(The Drominad System essay also mentions that it is not normal for a world in the Cosmere to have a Shard in residence, it's just that those worlds that have are 1. more interesting to her 2. actually within her reach since they usually have perpendicularities which she can use to travel)

Edited by Elegy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh I definitely agree that Shardless planets have Investiture (although apparently all Investiture in the Cosmere was assigned to a Shard at the Shattering, so I think we really mean "planets without the conscious presence of a Shard's Vessel/consciousness"), and that those with Shards are basically guaranteed to have Perpendicularities and thus are far more likely to be accessible.

But I don't think there are like 20x more Shardless planets than Shard planets, either. I'd expect there are several planets with the significant presence or influence of Shards we haven't seen yet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 31.7.2022 at 10:09 PM, Elegy said:

So 50-100 is probably still a very good guess. (On a side-note: In Secret History, Khriss says there are "dozens" of planets, not hundreds or the likes.)

No. I have to point out that between SP#4 and Secret History centuries have passed, at a minimum. If this is space age Cosmere, something closer to a millenium.

There will have been newly settled planets. Threnodites are actively colonizing. So are the Scadrians.

On 31.7.2022 at 10:09 PM, Elegy said:

(The Drominad System essay also mentions that it is not normal for a world in the Cosmere to have a Shard in residence, it's just that those worlds that have are 1. more interesting to her 2. actually within her reach since they usually have perpendicularities which she can use to travel)

The Dromiad system is a good example for something else. Look at the telepathic plants having coevolved with telepathic predators. That system is millions of years old. First of the Sun doesn't have Aviars because a Shard's avatar went there, but the other way round. And, crucially, Investiture is not limited to settled systems.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

There will have been newly settled planets. Threnodites are actively colonizing. So are the Scadrians.

The Dromiad system is a good example for something else. Look at the telepathic plants having coevolved with telepathic predators. That system is millions of years old. First of the Sun doesn't have Aviars because a Shard's avatar went there, but the other way round. And, crucially, Investiture is not limited to settled systems.

Yes, new planets beyond the "dozens" inhabited as of Secret History will probably be settled in space age cosmere. The SP#4 planet is probably one: I doubt it has a native population (at least of humans or anything close: there could be spren/seon equivalents) as it seems you need to either be underground or fast-moving (flying) to survive there.

There's a WoB that evolution is faster in the cosmere because of Investiture, so I'm not sure we can assume that the Drominad system has to be millions of years old. It totally could be, but I think the possibility that Adonalsium created the universe or at least the cosmere star cluster* in geologically recent times is still live. (Vasher/Zahel does say that some planets are older than others, which we knew anyway because Scadrial, and that fossils exist, but that's about it.)

There's probably Investiture to some degree on every planet in the cosmere star cluster, not just populated ones, yeah.

I agree that Aviars probably predate Autonomy having an Avatar on First of the Sun, but I don't think that's confirmed. (There is a WoB that that magic could happen without a Shard's direct involvement, which leans in that direction, but "could" isn't the same as "did".) Autonomy likely created an Avatar from Autonomy-aligned Investiture left on the planet in Pre-Shattering times.

*(As far as I know, while we've been told in Dawnshard that Adonalsium "created the cosmere" using the Dawnshards, that's kind of ambiguous. Did Adonalsium create the entire universe, or just create the cosmere star cluster in the same way Ruin+Preservation created Scadrial? Apparently per WoB the 'core' Aethers claim to not be derived from Adonalsium; they could be lying or wrong, but maybe they're "aliens" from beyond the cosmere star cluster?)

Edited by cometaryorbit
Link to comment
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said:

(at least of humans or anything close: there could be spren/seon equivalents)

I think it's unlikely that a planet is inhabited by cognitive entities with little to no living population in the physical realm. (I know we have Braize but that seems to be a special case). Generally a planet with no living minds on it won't really have a large area in the cognitive realm

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Stormtide_Leviathan said:

I think it's unlikely that a planet is inhabited by cognitive entities with little to no living population in the physical realm. (I know we have Braize but that seems to be a special case). Generally a planet with no living minds on it won't really have a large area in the cognitive realm

I was thinking of Braize as a precedent there, yeah, and of the large amount of Investiture available on this planet, but you're right that it's unlikely.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3.8.2022 at 5:11 PM, cometaryorbit said:

Yes, new planets beyond the "dozens" inhabited as of Secret History will probably be settled in space age cosmere. The SP#4 planet is probably one: I doubt it has a native population (at least of humans or anything close: there could be spren/seon equivalents) as it seems you need to either be underground or fast-moving (flying) to survive there.

It has a breathable atmosphere. The oxygen must come from somewhere. They are using wood for temporary construction. It has to come from some plant. The planet has native life.

On 3.8.2022 at 5:11 PM, cometaryorbit said:

There's a WoB that evolution is faster in the cosmere because of Investiture, so I'm not sure we can assume that the Drominad system has to be millions of years old. It totally could be, but I think the possibility that Adonalsium created the universe or at least the cosmere star cluster* in geologically recent times is still live. (Vasher/Zahel does say that some planets are older than others, which we knew anyway because Scadrial, and that fossils exist, but that's about it.)

Highly debatable. Most of the time the Earth existed no visible fossils were created.

On 3.8.2022 at 5:11 PM, cometaryorbit said:

There's probably Investiture to some degree on every planet in the cosmere star cluster, not just populated ones, yeah.

I agree that Aviars probably predate Autonomy having an Avatar on First of the Sun, but I don't think that's confirmed. (There is a WoB that that magic could happen without a Shard's direct involvement, which leans in that direction, but "could" isn't the same as "did".) Autonomy likely created an Avatar from Autonomy-aligned Investiture left on the planet in Pre-Shattering times.

The other animals have had to tie to learn to hide under the roosting trees. Aviars protect against the sense predators use.

On 3.8.2022 at 5:11 PM, cometaryorbit said:

*(As far as I know, while we've been told in Dawnshard that Adonalsium "created the cosmere" using the Dawnshards, that's kind of ambiguous. Did Adonalsium create the entire universe, or just create the cosmere star cluster in the same way Ruin+Preservation created Scadrial? Apparently per WoB the 'core' Aethers claim to not be derived from Adonalsium; they could be lying or wrong, but maybe they're "aliens" from beyond the cosmere star cluster?)

If Adonalsium created the Cosmere as if it had evolved, then by definition you could not tell how old it was from native stuff you find inside the Cosmere. However, the worlds and the Investiture found on them would still predate the shattering. However old the Aethers may be, we still can be sure that they, too, predate the shattering.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/6/2022 at 5:56 AM, Oltux72 said:

It has a breathable atmosphere. The oxygen must come from somewhere. They are using wood for temporary construction. It has to come from some plant. The planet has native life.

There are local plants, but they seem to have a part-of-one-local-day life cycle. I meant no native population of humans or near-humanoid Physical sapient beings (like the Singers on Roshar). I'd imagine there is native animal life, but it probably either has very short life cycles (eg some insects) or is deep underground for most of the day.

On 8/6/2022 at 5:56 AM, Oltux72 said:

However, the worlds and the Investiture found on them would still predate the shattering. However old the Aethers may be, we still can be sure that they, too, predate the shattering.

Oh, yeah, most planets and at least some Investiture on them (Scadrial being the prime exception) predates the Shattering.

My question is whether:

1. the Cosmere was created by Adonalsium complete with humans/Sho Del/dragons/singers comparatively shortly (thousands of years or so) before the Shattering;

2. The Cosmere was created by Adonalsium billions of years ago, and humans/Sho Del/dragons/Singers evolved;

3. The universe containing the Cosmere is billions of years old, but Adonalsium created the Cosmere star cluster and its original sapient beings comparatively shortly before the Shattering.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...