Theoretical Feruchemist vs

[Fullborn IRL]

Would a Skimmer (iron) or Brute (pewter) ferring win in a fistfight? Would the enhanced strength of F-Pewter or sheer mass of a fist from an F-Iron user pack a greater punch? 

[cometaryorbit]

I think Pewter is more likely to win because increased strength is easier to use in a fight - you can use regular punches, etc., rather than the "dropping a fist" Sazed uses in HoA when all he has is Iron and Steel.

[Fullborn IRL]

But a skimmer would have proportionally increased strength to carry a fist and a whole body of a phenomenal amount of mass so would even be able to swing that fist as needed, not just 'drop it'.

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

40 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said:

I think Pewter is more likely to win because increased strength is easier to use in a fight - you can use regular punches, etc., rather than the "dropping a fist" Sazed uses in HoA when all he has is Iron and Steel.

 

7 minutes ago, Fullborn IRL said:

But a skimmer would have proportionally increased strength to carry a fist and a whole body of a phenomenal amount of mass so would even be able to swing that fist as needed, not just 'drop it'.

Exactly this.  The brute is going to also lose mobility the larger he gets.  The skimmers power allows it to retain all of its physical abilities and mobility while allowing every part of its body to effect the world as if it were many times heavier.  

Boxers who wear loaded gloves don't have to "drop" their hands.  And for the skimmer it will be as if throwing a normal punch even if when it hits the brute it has 2000 lbs worth of momentum behind it.  

It is all a momentum issue.  The brute will never be able to put that kind of momentum behind a hit.  

I think the real question from me is what happens to the skimmers hand and arm?   I would like to say they will be fine.  

Likewise what would happen to a kandra with an iron medallion and a metal truebody if they were to hit a person with that much weight?   Would it bend their truebody?   

[Frustration]

6 minutes ago, Fullborn IRL said:

But a skimmer would have proportionally increased strength to carry a fist and a whole body of a phenomenal amount of mass so would even be able to swing that fist as needed, not just 'drop it'.

It won't affect their strength, iron feruchemy is wierd, and does not follow normal physics.

A brute would beat a skimmer without question.

 

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

13 minutes ago, Frustration said:

It won't affect their strength, iron feruchemy is wierd, and does not follow normal physics.

A brute would beat a skimmer without question.

 

It is all a momentum game.  The skimmer moves the exact same as he normally would only he now weighs many times more when interacting with the world.  

Take a ping-pong ball and a golf ball both traveling at 100mph.  Which one would you prefer be hit by.  

The brute has a physical limit where he won't be able to move his arm at all to keep up with the weight plus his surface area is going to increase as well which will soften the blow. 

Skimmer keeps that same surface area and moves as he normally does only he can increase his weight until he is empty losing zero mobility at all.  

 

Edit:  I always found it interesting that pewter added mass and iron didn't.  

Edited July 12, 2022 by Tamriel Wolfsbaine

[cometaryorbit]

I don't think the Skimmer does move the exact same - Wax is lighter on his feet storing iron, therefore he'd be heavier tapping it.

And when we see Sazed use Iron to fight, he specifically drops his fists and uses his body weight rather than using normal punches etc.

Pewter Feruchemy adding muscle mass might eventually hit an upper limit due to awkwardness of size, but it's pretty high - Sazed is as large as the largest koloss, so like 12 feet tall, when super tapping Pewter in the final battle of the Siege of Luthadel.

Edited July 12, 2022 by cometaryorbit

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

24 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said:

I don't think the Skimmer does move the exact same - Wax is lighter on his feet storing iron, therefore he'd be heavier tapping it.

And when we see Sazed use Iron to fight, he specifically drops his fists and uses his body weight rather than using normal punches etc.

Pewter Feruchemy adding muscle mass might eventually hit an upper limit due to awkwardness of size, but it's pretty high - Sazed is as large as the largest koloss, so like 12 feet tall, when super tapping Pewter in the final battle of the Siege of Luthadel.

Sazed "dropping" fists is a hard picture to see... if he is normal sized and still fighting hulking koloss where is he dropping fists onto?  

We don't see much application for running and moving while tapping except for knowing that momentum is conserved.   Wax slows down as he gets heavier during movement.  He speeds up while getting lighter... during movement.  

My issue with "feeling lighter on his feet" is that your strength doesn't grow proportionality as you get heavier.  

If you are 200 lbs and can squat 400lbs and walk around normally without your legs buckling then why wouldn't a 2000lb you be able to squat 4000lbs?   You can still squat without breaking your legs.  It is because iron gets real messy in its attempt to impact the world around it.  

Spiritually your body is viewed the same and makes up the difference so that you don't kill yourself tapping weight.  

Physically your body impacts the world around it as if it weighed whatever the iron is making it weigh.  

Wax crashes through a floor without crushing his own lungs.   

I think the characters are always speaking to what they see themselves doing.  Sazed wasn't dropping his fists onto koloss feet to kill them.  Wax had his entire conversation with Khriss and realized in that moment how what she was saying made sense.  Thus anytime he was speaking about his iron feruchemy before vs after could have been totally different in how he explained it.  

Perhaps if Sazed had more experience as a boxer he would not have used the term "drop".  Plus a rock hurts a lot worse when thrown than dropped and he has his arm length to gain speed and momentum.  Obviously his body had to be propelling the throw.  

Edit:

Sazed being the size of a koloss with pewter does change things up a bit.  That is a massive reach advantage.  But any strike the iron ferring lands is certainly going to be more damaging than a single strike from the pewter ferring.  Attack the hands as iron ferring and that brute won't want to keep throwing hands your way.  

 

Edited July 12, 2022 by Tamriel Wolfsbaine

[cometaryorbit]

5 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Sazed "dropping" fists is a hard picture to see... if he is normal sized and still fighting hulking koloss where is he dropping fists onto?  

We don't see much application for running and moving while tapping except for knowing that momentum is conserved.   Wax slows down as he gets heavier during movement.  He speeds up while getting lighter... during movement.  

My issue with "feeling lighter on his feet" is that your strength doesn't grow proportionality as you get heavier.  

If you are 200 lbs and can squat 400lbs and walk around normally without your legs buckling then why wouldn't a 2000lb you be able to squat 4000lbs?   You can still squat without breaking your legs.  It is because iron gets real messy in its attempt to impact the world around it.  

Spiritually your body is viewed the same and makes up the difference so that you don't kill yourself tapping weight.  

Physically your body impacts the world around it as if it weighed whatever the iron is making it weigh.  

Wax crashes through a floor without crushing his own lungs.   

The "dropping" was in HOA in the Kandra Homeland prison when he only had speed (stored in the steel lock) and weight (stored in the iron grate). He dropped his fists on kandra, not koloss, and then fell on one, breaking the stone bones of a True Body. He didn't fight with normal punches etc.

In the WOA koloss fight he was using huge amounts of strength/Pewter. There he was indeed punching koloss, but that wasn't weight/Iron.

Iron gives *structural* strength (not crushing yourself) but not *muscular* strength (motion). Like other Feruchemy, it gives you just enough that the ability itself doesn't kill you (similarly to how Steel speed doesn't make your legs snap from G-forces but doesn't protect from wind resistance, or how Brass heat doesn't kill you with heatstroke).

I don't think Wax could squat at 2000lbs. He could maintain his position (due to structural strength) if he was *already* squatting- his legs wouldn't buckle- but he couldn't move much at 10x weight.

(Though this protection from killing yourself probably only comes into play in extreme uses, like "heavy as a building" Wax. RL people have survived a couple of dozen g for about a second; crushing lungs would take a LOT.)

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

19 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said:

The "dropping" was in HOA in the Kandra Homeland prison when he only had speed (stored in the steel lock) and weight (stored in the iron grate). He dropped his fists on kandra, not koloss, and then fell on one, breaking the stone bones of a True Body. He didn't fight with normal punches etc.

In the WOA koloss fight he was using huge amounts of strength/Pewter. There he was indeed punching koloss, but that wasn't weight/Iron.

Iron gives *structural* strength (not crushing yourself) but not *muscular* strength (motion). Like other Feruchemy, it gives you just enough that the ability itself doesn't kill you (similarly to how Steel speed doesn't make your legs snap from G-forces but doesn't protect from wind resistance, or how Brass heat doesn't kill you with heatstroke).

I don't think Wax could squat at 2000lbs. He could maintain his position (due to structural strength) if he was *already* squatting- his legs wouldn't buckle- but he couldn't move much at 10x weight.

(Though this protection from killing yourself probably only comes into play in extreme uses, like "heavy as a building" Wax. RL people have survived a couple of dozen g for about a second; crushing lungs would take a LOT.)

I think I am at a RAFO point myself.  A lot of what we see with iron is weird weird and almost all of it being tapped is in the context of either already being mostly anchored or falling anyways.   What we do have are things like this:

Spoiler

Calderis

I recently got the opportunity to ask you a question about Feruchemical steel and if it was a temporal effect and you told me to define that better. When tapping steel, the mind of the Feruchemist is sped up and physics affects their actions normally. When storing, their mind is not slowed and the effect seems tortuously difficult to amass. Storing generally seems to be the more dangerous/difficult option in Feruchemy, so does [Feruchemical steel] alter a person's personal relationship to the flow of time, with the disconnect between the Physical and Cognitive as a drawback of storing?

Brandon Sanderson

I see what you're asking. The mind-altering effects of [Feruchemical steel] are similar to the slight strength you gain from [Feruchemical iron]--it is your Spiritual nature adapting to the new influx of an attribute that it's not really expecting, and siphoning some of that investiture to make you capable of actually using it. So there is a slight temporal effect here, but nothing as big as I think you're looking for.

So how much would iron do it?   Bleeder didn't run into walls and was able to function with normal thought processes or she would not have had time to react to anything.  

Unless iron compensates significantly worse than other metals.  I'm not saying it makes you stronger or faster.  If you retain even enough to "actually use it" then why wouldn't you be able to move in a boxing match?  

Then again we have this also:

Spoiler

XMikethetrikeX

A question regaurding Feruchemical iron:

So, while Sazed was guarding one of the gates to Luthadel, he tapped weight to compensate, he had to tap pewter as well. Also, when he was climbing a tree, his strength to weght ratio rised, making it easier for him to climb it. Wax doesn't have to do this- when fighting Miles on the train, he's fine without any sort of muscular enhancement, and when he is climbing in the sets base, he notes that he does not make himself lighter because it would simply decrease his weight and strength equally (in contrast to Sazed climbing the tree).

So, is this difference for the same reason people can push/ pull on atium, being the you hadn't fully developed your idea for the cosmere yet? Or is it some other reason?

Brandon Sanderson

Hmm. I think the mistake is more on me writing the Wax scene than in the original. (For him climbing, specifically.) I'll put Peter on this and see if it's a continuity error we want to fix.

This one muddies up my brain more because there isn't much of a follow up past that.  

Bottom line iron breaks all sorts of rules.  We can't really know until we see it on screen.  Sadly I don't know that we will ever see Wax run at something while heavy though. 

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson

Chapter Six

The fight in the ballroom

From the early days of the Mistborn books, I'd been planning how an Allomantic gunfight would go down. I felt it the next evolution in what has been stylistically a big part of these books.

There is a fine line to walk in a lot of these sequences. I've made something of a name for myself in the fantasy world by attempting to mix some scientific reasoning with my magic systems. At the same time, Allomancy was designed precisely with action sequences in mind. I wanted them to be powerful and cinematic—and a cinematic fight sequence is often at odds with realism. (Watch two people who really know what they're doing fight with swords sometime, then watch any fight sequence in a film. Most of the time, the film sequences stray far from what would really happen.)

So, as I said, I walk a line. Sometimes, there are things I just can't do because they violate what I've set up as the rules of the world. Other times, I design the setting and nature of the fight specifically to allow for certain types of cinematic sequences. One thing I like a lot about Wax’s abilities is the power he has to manipulate his weight. There's some realism to what he does—for example, increasing his weight doesn't make him fall more quickly, but it allows him to do some powerful things while falling. Destroying the chandeliers is an example.

At the same time, I acknowledge that the weight manipulation aspect of Feruchemy is one of its more baffling powers, scientifically. Is he changing his mass? If so, he should become more dense, which I don't actually make the case when it plays out in fights. (Otherwise, increasing his weight enough would make him impervious to bullets.) So, if it's not mass manipulation, is it gravity manipulation, like Szeth and Kaladin do? Well, again, not really—as when his weight increases, his strength and ability to uphold that weight increase as well. Beyond that, Wax can't make himself so light that he has no weight at all.

So . . . well, at this point, the ability to explain it scientifically breaks down. I do like what it does, but I have to set its boundaries and stick to them—and accept that some of what's going on is irrational. (And don't get me started on what should really be happening scientifically when Wayne speeds up time.)

 

Footnote: Brandon has stated that iron Feruchemy works by manipulating the Higgs field.

It is easy to be on opposing ends of this one.

Pewter definately has a reach advantage and i believe Sazed removed a head with a hit while loaded up on pewter.

Dr. Ashby had a great presentation on momentum in relation to arrow penetration decades ago which still holds true...   even slower a much heavier arrowhead will penetrate a hide better due to the momentum. 

Conservation of momentum says that an iron ferring could sit on the ground at 10000 lbs and jump storing back to normal weight as soon as they leave the ground and turn themselves into a pseudo rocket according to what we do see on screen.  

If an iron user were to tap weight and then swing a fist and then store weight it would speed up his punch as well.  You could get something wild going starting very heavy and then storing weight as your punch is flying.  

Even if I concede that your mobility is diminished when tapping weight (which the WoBs and writings are muddy on) a skimmer boxer would still be dangerous to the brute.

 

[cometaryorbit]

14 hours ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Unless iron compensates significantly worse than other metals.  I'm not saying it makes you stronger or faster.  If you retain even enough to "actually use it" then why wouldn't you be able to move in a boxing match?  

Then again we have this also:

  Hide contents

XMikethetrikeX

A question regaurding Feruchemical iron:

So, while Sazed was guarding one of the gates to Luthadel, he tapped weight to compensate, he had to tap pewter as well. Also, when he was climbing a tree, his strength to weght ratio rised, making it easier for him to climb it. Wax doesn't have to do this- when fighting Miles on the train, he's fine without any sort of muscular enhancement, and when he is climbing in the sets base, he notes that he does not make himself lighter because it would simply decrease his weight and strength equally (in contrast to Sazed climbing the tree).

So, is this difference for the same reason people can push/ pull on atium, being the you hadn't fully developed your idea for the cosmere yet? Or is it some other reason?

Brandon Sanderson

Hmm. I think the mistake is more on me writing the Wax scene than in the original. (For him climbing, specifically.) I'll put Peter on this and see if it's a continuity error we want fix.

 

It is easy to be on opposing ends of this one.

I think "enough to actually use it" means "you get enough structural strength to not crush yourself even when you become absurdly heavy" (eg Wax heavy as a building). Steel speed needs enough reaction time enhancement to be able to move effectively, because that power (speed) inherently requires motion. Iron weight is different imo.

But iron feruchemy is indeed super weird so I'm not saying this is 100% certain.

14 hours ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Conservation of momentum says that an iron ferring could sit on the ground at 10000 lbs and jump storing back to normal weight as soon as they leave the ground and turn themselves into a pseudo rocket according to what we do see on screen.  

If an iron user were to tap weight and then swing a fist and then store weight it would speed up his punch as well.  You could get something wild going starting very heavy and then storing weight as your punch is flying.  

Even if I concede that your mobility is diminished when tapping weight (which the WoBs and writings are muddy on) a skimmer boxer would still be dangerous to the brute.

 

I still say they couldn't jump at high weight.

But yes absolutely a Skimmer would be dangerous. What we see of Sazed using high weight against the kandra shows that. If the Brute got overconfident he could be in trouble. I'm not saying the Brute automatically wins, but I think they definitely have a major advantage... mostly that the less awkward movement (plus reach advantage of growing to koloss size, as you say) makes them likely to strike first and one supercharged punch is likely to kill anyone without increased toughness or healing powers.

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

On 7/13/2022 at 9:19 AM, cometaryorbit said:

I think "enough to actually use it" means "you get enough structural strength to not crush yourself even when you become absurdly heavy" (eg Wax heavy as a building). Steel speed needs enough reaction time enhancement to be able to move effectively, because that power (speed) inherently requires motion. Iron weight is different imo.

But iron feruchemy is indeed super weird so I'm not saying this is 100% certain.

I still say they couldn't jump at high weight.

But yes absolutely a Skimmer would be dangerous. What we see of Sazed using high weight against the kandra shows that. If the Brute got overconfident he could be in trouble. I'm not saying the Brute automatically wins, but I think they definitely have a major advantage... mostly that the less awkward movement (plus reach advantage of growing to koloss size, as you say) makes them likely to strike first and one supercharged punch is likely to kill anyone without increased toughness or healing powers.

I started giving the benefits of brute more of a thought this morning and it hit me... if Sazed were a 12 foot tall hulking rage monster he probably was pushing 1400+ lbs in that battle anyways.  

So really there is no true advantage to iron vs pewter as pewter can weight 10x their weight plus have 3-4x longer reach plus have all the needed muscle to move it.   The laws of conservation of momentum would still apply for them as well allowing for literally everything that iron does... even the benefit of stopping your fall before it becomes lethal through increasing size before landing.

This is part of why I would hope iron doesn't lose as much mobility but I can definately say my mind has been changed to see pewter as less useless.   

 

[Treamayne]

On 7/12/2022 at 7:38 PM, cometaryorbit said:

In the WOA koloss fight he was using huge amounts of strength/Pewter. There he was indeed punching koloss, but that wasn't weight/Iron.

Iron gives *structural* strength (not crushing yourself) but not *muscular* strength (motion). Like other Feruchemy, it gives you just enough that the ability itself doesn't kill you (similarly to how Steel speed doesn't make your legs snap from G-forces but doesn't protect from wind resistance, or how Brass heat doesn't kill you with heatstroke).

Here's the references in CH 52 and 53 of WoA

Spoiler

Ch 52
 

Quote

 

But if I don’t do something, nobody will.

He tapped pewter.

His muscles grew. He drew deeply upon his pewtermind as he dashed forward, taking more strength than he ever had before. He had spent years storing up strength, rarely finding occasion to use it, and now he tapped that reserve.

His body changed, weak scholar’s arms transforming into massive, bulky limbs. His chest widened, bulging, and his muscles grew taut with power. Days spent fragile and frail focused on this single moment. He shoved his way through the ranks of soldiers, pulling his robe over his head as it grew too restrictive, leaving himself wearing only a vestigial loincloth.

The lead koloss turned to find himself facing a creature nearly his own size. Despite its rage, despite its inhumanness, the beast froze, surprise showing in its beady red eyes.

Sazed punched the monster.

 

Ch 53

Quote

 

Perhaps…

Sazed didn’t have time to think. He dashed forward, tapping his pewtermind again, giving himself the strength of five men. He picked up the body of a smaller koloss and threw it out the gate. The creatures outside snarled, scattering. There were still hundreds waiting for the chance to get in, but they tripped over the dead in their haste to get out of the way of his projectile.

Sazed slipped on blood as he grabbed a second body, throwing it to the side. “To me!” he screamed, hoping that there were men who could hear, and who could respond.

The koloss realized what he was doing too late. He kicked another body out of the way, then slammed his body against the open door and tapped his ironmind, drawing forth the weight he had stored within it. Immediately, he became far heavier, and that weight crashed against the gate, slamming it closed.

Koloss rushed at the doorway from the other side. Sazed scrambled up against the gate, pushing corpses out of the way, forcing the massive portal closed all the way. He tapped his ironmind further, draining its precious reserve at an alarming rate. He became so heavy he felt his own weight crushing him to the ground, and only his increased strength managed to keep him on his feet.

 

 

So Sazed clearly undergoes muscular changes with F-Pewter, but needs his Pewter to halp him move his F-Iron body to block the gate (since he is tapping so much)

4 hours ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

I started giving the benefits of brute more of a thought this morning and it hit me... if Sazed were a 12 foot tall hulking rage monster he probably was pushing 1400+ lbs in that battle anyways.  

Sazed would not have been a 12 foot tall monster (he should not have gained any height at all as there is not skeletal change with F-Pewter, only muscular).

Here's the section in Ch 52 (when combined with the section above):

Spoiler

The koloss are jumping up, Sazed realized. Enough corpses must have piled below. And yet, to jump so high…

More and more creatures were pulling themselves onto the top of the wall. They were the largest of the monsters, the ones over ten feet in height, but that only made it easier for them to sweep the archers out of their way. Men fell to the courtyard, and the pounding on the gates redoubled.

“Go!” Sazed said, waving at the people behind him. Some of them backed away. Many stood firm.

Sazed turned desperately back toward the gates. The wooden structures began to crack, splinters spraying through the snowy, ash-laden air. The soldiers backed away, postures frightened. Finally, with a snap, the bar broke and the right gate burst open. A howling, bleeding, wild mass of koloss began to scramble across the wet stones.

Soldiers dropped their weapons and fled.

 

So, if the Koloss that are 10+ feet tall are jumping the wall to clear archers, then the Koloss that came through the gates is < 10 ft. At 7ft Sazed (with a few hundred pounds of F-Pewter muscle) could conceivably be considered "a creature nearly his own size" - especially when it is possible the "lead koloss" was only between 8-9ft.

 

 

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

1 hour ago, Treamayne said:

Here's the references in CH 52 and 53 of WoA

  Reveal hidden contents

Ch 52
 

Ch 53

 

So Sazed clearly undergoes muscular changes with F-Pewter, but needs his Pewter to halp him move his F-Iron body to block the gate (since he is tapping so much)

Sazed would not have been a 12 foot tall monster (he should not have gained any height at all as there is not skeletal change with F-Pewter, only muscular).

Here's the section in Ch 52 (when combined with the section above):

  Reveal hidden contents

The koloss are jumping up, Sazed realized. Enough corpses must have piled below. And yet, to jump so high…

More and more creatures were pulling themselves onto the top of the wall. They were the largest of the monsters, the ones over ten feet in height, but that only made it easier for them to sweep the archers out of their way. Men fell to the courtyard, and the pounding on the gates redoubled.

“Go!” Sazed said, waving at the people behind him. Some of them backed away. Many stood firm.

Sazed turned desperately back toward the gates. The wooden structures began to crack, splinters spraying through the snowy, ash-laden air. The soldiers backed away, postures frightened. Finally, with a snap, the bar broke and the right gate burst open. A howling, bleeding, wild mass of koloss began to scramble across the wet stones.

Soldiers dropped their weapons and fled.

 

So, if the Koloss that are 10+ feet tall are jumping the wall to clear archers, then the Koloss that came through the gates is < 10 ft. At 7ft Sazed (with a few hundred pounds of F-Pewter muscle) could conceivably be considered "a creature nearly his own size" - especially when it is possible the "lead koloss" was only between 8-9ft.

 

 

Was Sazed always 7 feet tall?  If pewter doesn't increase skeletal structure then there should be no height change at all (maybe you could argue a couple inches for stretching and straightening up the spine.  That's really it though.  Hence more whackiness in the physical metals.  

Edited July 16, 2022 by Tamriel Wolfsbaine

[Treamayne]

1 hour ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Was Sazed always 7 feet tall?  If pewter doesn't increase skeletal structure then there should be no height change at all (maybe you could argue a couple inches for stretching and straightening up the spine.  That's really it though.  Hence more whackiness in the physical metals.  

IIRC, the books never actually mentioned a height in feet/inches (just a "very tall eunuch"); but I thought BS said in a WoB that he was "around 7 feet tall," like many eunuchs. I haven't found that WoB again yet, but this is from the Annotations:

Spoiler

Mistborn: The Final Empire Annotations (Dec. 16, 2006) 

Chapter Sixteen - Part Two

Sazed's nature as a eunuch was stabilized in my mind almost from the beginning of the formation of his character. With the Lord Ruler trying so hard to breed a perfect race of Terrisman servants, I felt that it would be important for him to castrate most of the Terrismen. In addition, I've never written a eunuch character before, and really wanted to see if I could deal with one in a good way.

I read up on what castration does to a man when it's preformed before puberty. Often, apparently, the result is obesity. Another result is that the person grows taller than normal (for some reason) and their arms grow longer in proportion to their bodies than regular people. I didn't make Sazed fat–I think that had been done too much for eunuchs–but I did give him the other physical characteristic.

 

 

 

Edited July 16, 2022 by Treamayne

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

1 hour ago, Treamayne said:

IIRC, the books never actually mentioned a height in feet/inches (just a "very tall eunuch"); but I thought BS said in a WoB that he was "around 7 feet tall," like many eunuchs. I haven't found that WoB again yet, but this is from the Annotations:

  Hide contents

Mistborn: The Final Empire Annotations (Dec. 16, 2006) 

Chapter Sixteen - Part Two

Sazed's nature as a eunuch was stabilized in my mind almost from the beginning of the formation of his character. With the Lord Ruler trying so hard to breed a perfect race of Terrisman servants, I felt that it would be important for him to castrate most of the Terrismen. In addition, I've never written a eunuch character before, and really wanted to see if I could deal with one in a good way.

I read up on what castration does to a man when it's preformed before puberty. Often, apparently, the result is obesity. Another result is that the person grows taller than normal (for some reason) and their arms grow longer in proportion to their bodies than regular people. I didn't make Sazed fat–I think that had been done too much for eunuchs–but I did give him the other physical characteristic.

 

 

 

Thanks for all this.