Kered

Odium pulled a Ruin?

5 posts in this topic

Hello all, this isn't so much a theory than its just a question to see what people think. I was re-listening to the RoW reactions part 1 shardcast when an idea popped in my head when Feather was talking about when Dalinar asked the ardent what he'll do if they ever reclaim the Tranquiline Halls. The ardent responds to Dailnar by saying they're sure the Almighty will find new things for Dalinar to conquer. In the shardcast after Feather mentions that it's discussed that if Dalinar becomes a Fused for Odium, then this statement by the Ardent may be seen as foreshadowing. The thought that popped in my head was to take that concept further. What if it just wasn't subtle foreshadowing, what if it's kinda lowkey proof that Odium influenced the faith and tenants of Vorinisim? The whole concept of humanity fighting for the Tranquiline Halls is kinda paralleled with Odium's plan/desire to use Roshar as a training ground to prepare his troops for war throughout the cosmere. Obviously this isn't hugely impactful, even before TarOdium happened. But it would be cool if turned out to just be a glimpse of just how complex Odiums plans have been and taking a play out of Ruin's playbook. Using religion to influence people. It would be a smart tidbit for Odium to base a core principle of humanities prominent religion on his plan for what he wants humanity to become.

It's a bit out there but I couldn't get it out of my head so I decided to post just to see other peoples thoughts.  

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I don't know about Odium's influence on Vorinism, which retains strong taboos against "seeing the future" as something evil (of "the Voidbringers", which is to say of Odium, without naming him)

But I definitely feel like there was Nalan's (via Ishar?) influence, in the way they sought to vilify the Radiants and to suppress any knowledge of Surgebinding or Nahel bonds

Nalan wasn't hunting down Surgebinders until AFTER the Recreance, but we also know that he and Kalak were PRESENT for the trigger event (the binding of Ba-Ado-Mishram), so between Ishar telling Nalan that new Nahel bonds would trigger the Final Desolation and Nalan continuing in secret to lead the only order of Radiants left operating (the Skybreakers), that can't be a coincidence, right?

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There might be quite a bit of Odium influence out there. The Thaylen Passions are ... suspect... given that Rayse-Odium called himself Passion. And the war focus of the Alethi combined with the Thrill...

I think it's mostly indirect influence, through the Unmade and such, though.

I agree that Vorinism sees Odium/the Voidbringers as the enemy, and worship Honor, but that's not incompatible with subtle influence - especially since a lot has presumably changed since the Recreance.

With the Hierocracy's rule, then being overthrown and replaced by the ardent system, the religion could have been changed a lot. I wonder if the war focus of modern Vorinism* was influenced by the Sunmaker? (A priest ruled era - the Hierocracy - might well have been less war focused than a system set up by a conquering general.) Was he influenced by the Thrill?

*or at least its Alethi version: would ardents in mercantile Thaylenah necessarily preach that war is the highest Calling?

-

I kind of think that "Radiants will cause a new Desolation" is probably Ishar's misinterpretation of dying-Honor's raving about Surgebinders destroying the world.

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On 7/12/2022 at 3:22 PM, cometaryorbit said:

There might be quite a bit of Odium influence out there. The Thaylen Passions are ... suspect... given that Rayse-Odium called himself Passion. And the war focus of the Alethi combined with the Thrill...

Not to mention El's talk of helping the humans reach their passions and whatnot.

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Posted (edited)

On 7/12/2022 at 1:04 AM, Kered said:

Hello all, this isn't so much a theory than its just a question to see what people think. I was re-listening to the RoW reactions part 1 shardcast when an idea popped in my head when Feather was talking about when Dalinar asked the ardent what he'll do if they ever reclaim the Tranquiline Halls. The ardent responds to Dailnar by saying they're sure the Almighty will find new things for Dalinar to conquer. In the shardcast after Feather mentions that it's discussed that if Dalinar becomes a Fused for Odium, then this statement by the Ardent may be seen as foreshadowing. The thought that popped in my head was to take that concept further. What if it just wasn't subtle foreshadowing, what if it's kinda lowkey proof that Odium influenced the faith and tenants of Vorinisim? The whole concept of humanity fighting for the Tranquiline Halls is kinda paralleled with Odium's plan/desire to use Roshar as a training ground to prepare his troops for war throughout the cosmere. Obviously this isn't hugely impactful, even before TarOdium happened. But it would be cool if turned out to just be a glimpse of just how complex Odiums plans have been and taking a play out of Ruin's playbook. Using religion to influence people. It would be a smart tidbit for Odium to base a core principle of humanities prominent religion on his plan for what he wants humanity to become.

It's a bit out there but I couldn't get it out of my head so I decided to post just to see other peoples thoughts.  

Yeah Vorinism's idea that life on Roshar is training to retake the Tranquiline Halls after they are dead is almost exactly what Rayse lays out to Dalinar in RoW. But, it's also exactly what the Fused are doing now.

It could have filtered in indirectly. The Fused are spirits of the dead with lots of combat experience trying to retake their homeland, the "Tranquiline Halls" which the Voidbringers (humans from Ashyn) drove them out of.  Eventually the knowledge that humans came from another planet and were the initial aggressors was lost. The humans cast themselves as the protagonists in the conflict and essentially swapped themselves in for what the Fused are actually doing. 

Edited by Child of Hodor
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