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slavagh

Testament, an agent of the Ghostbloods, was killed before Shallan’s mother.

22 posts in this topic

I think Shallan killed Testament earlier than she killed her mother.

1)    The thing that bothers me is that Shallan saw the presumable blade in the locked strongbox long after she killed her mother. The sequence of the events:

     -Killed her mother

     -Saw the blade being put in the strongbox

     -Went to sleep

     -Went  to the garden

     -Summoned alive spren

     -Killed spren

     -Returned the dead blade into the strongbox.

It doesn’t make sense.

2)    My assumption is that she killed her spren before the encounter with her mother. That can explain why the blade was in the strongbox for so long.

3)    One of the simplest explanations of why a spren would choose to bond with a child is bad intentions. I think Testament was using  Shallan to get information about her mother. I support the theory that Shallan’s mother was a Herald.

4)    Ghostbloods are interested in Mishram. Some of the Heralds were there during her imprisonment. Heralds may have information about her whereabouts.

5)    Cryptics study deadeyes to find a way to bring them back.

6)    It is possible to convince a Cryptic that finding Mishram is in their best interest.

7)    Hence, Testament could have been working with the Ghostbloods.

8)    Shallan could have found out, felt betrayed and killed Testament accidently in the Garden. Then told her mother about the whole thing.

Why her mother freaked out? And who was the second victim, the man Shallan’s mother brought to the encounter?

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5 minutes ago, slavagh said:

1)    The thing that bothers me is that Shallan saw the presumable blade in the locked strongbox long after she killed her mother. The sequence of the events:

     -Killed her mother

     -Saw the blade being put in the strongbox

     -Went to sleep

     -Went  to the garden

     -Summoned alive spren

     -Killed spren

     -Returned the dead blade into the strongbox.

The dead blade was never returned to the strongbox. Shallan herself admits to Pattern that the Blade vanished as soon as her father closed the strongbox.

8 minutes ago, slavagh said:

Why her mother freaked out? And who was the second victim, the man Shallan’s mother brought to the encounter?

The second man, Shallan's mother's lover, was associated with the Skybreakers and convinced her to kill Shallan because she was a budding Radiant.

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6 minutes ago, Nameless said:

The dead blade was never returned to the strongbox. Shallan herself admits to Pattern that the Blade vanished as soon as her father closed the strongbox.

How to explain this:

It was hidden behind a painting of a storm at sea that did nothing to dim the powerful white glow. Right through the canvas, she saw the outline of the strongbox blazing like a fire. She stumbled, pulling to a stop.

“What are you staring at?” Jushu demanded, holding to the bannister.

“The light.”

“What light?”

“Behind the painting.”

He squinted, lurching forward. “What in the Halls are you talking about, girl? It really did ruin your mind, didn’t it? Watching him kill Mother?” Jushu pulled away from her, cursing softly to himself. “I’m the only one in this family who hasn’t gone crazy. The only storming one…”

Shallan stared into that light. There hid a monster.

There hid Mother’s soul.

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2 minutes ago, slavagh said:

How to explain this:

It was hidden behind a painting of a storm at sea that did nothing to dim the powerful white glow. Right through the canvas, she saw the outline of the strongbox blazing like a fire. She stumbled, pulling to a stop.

“What are you staring at?” Jushu demanded, holding to the bannister.

“The light.”

“What light?”

“Behind the painting.”

He squinted, lurching forward. “What in the Halls are you talking about, girl? It really did ruin your mind, didn’t it? Watching him kill Mother?” Jushu pulled away from her, cursing softly to himself. “I’m the only one in this family who hasn’t gone crazy. The only storming one…”

Shallan stared into that light. There hid a monster.

There hid Mother’s soul.

Shallan sees things that aren't there all the time.

I'm with Nameless here, I don't think the blade was there at all.

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3 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Shallan sees things that aren't there all the time.

She "lightweaves" things that aren't there. In that case, others see them too. Jushy saw nothing. Don't remember any instance of her seeing something that was not there.

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Just now, slavagh said:

She "lightweaves" things that aren't there. In that case, others see them too. Jushy saw nothing. Don't remember any instance of her seeing something that was not there.

Cryptics in the halls of Kharbranth.

Distortions around Urithiru Etc..

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1 minute ago, Frustration said:

Cryptics in the halls of Kharbranth.

Distortions around Urithiru Etc..

But Cryptics were there. And Tower was corrupted. She saw better than others. The light behind the painting was not lightweaving. And I don't see any proof that it was a delusion.

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Just now, slavagh said:

But Cryptics were there. And Tower was corrupted. She saw better than others. The light behind the painting was not lightweaving. And I don't see any proof that it was a delusion.

The tower wasn't corrupted, yet she drew it filled with strange sapes and jutting teeth reguardless.

And if you count an Unmade being there as being corrupted there was an Unmade in the Davar household.

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3 minutes ago, Frustration said:

The tower wasn't corrupted, yet she drew it filled with strange sapes and jutting teeth reguardless.

And if you count an Unmade being there as being corrupted there was an Unmade in the Davar household.

Those drawings helped her to find what was wrong with the Tower. Random delusion helped her to identify that something was wrong? Unmade was in the Davar's household sometime in the past. There is no proof that it was there in that instance. But it is a possible explanation. I am just not convinced.

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1 minute ago, slavagh said:

Those drawings helped her to find what was wrong with the Tower. Random delusion helped her to identify that something was wrong? Unmade was in the Davar's household sometime in the past. There is no proof that it was there in that instance. But it is a possible explanation. I am just not convinced.

There very much is proof that is the case

Spoiler

Questioner

Was Shallan's family, during her childhood, being influenced by an Unmade?

Brandon Sanderson

Um, yes.

Questioner

Was it the corrupting--

Brandon Sanderson

I'll RAFO that, but yes, there is some external influence there. 

JordanCon 2018 (April 22, 2018)

 

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Here's another question for you: Why would Shallan's Shardblade being in that safe make it glow? Here's a quote from Shallan telling Pattern that the Blade just disappeared as soon as the safe was closed:

Quote

"Father took you from me," Shallan said, "and tried to hide you in here. Of course, that was useless. You vanished as soon as he closed the strongbox. Faded to mist. He wasn't thinking clearly. Neither of us were" WoR ch. 88 p. 1059

 

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2 minutes ago, Nameless said:

Why would Shallan's Shardblade being in that safe make it glow?

I have no idea. The glowing may be a clue to something more interesting or just great visual with a trivial explanation: because they have a connection

2 minutes ago, Nameless said:

You vanished as soon as he closed the strongbox

Not reliable. At the moment of the quote she didn't admit to herself she killed a blade. She refers to the blade as Pattern.

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2 minutes ago, slavagh said:

I have no idea. The glowing may be a clue to something more interesting or just great visual with a trivial explanation: because they have a connection

Or it could indicate that Shallan is crazy.

2 minutes ago, slavagh said:

Not reliable. At the moment of the quote she didn't admit to herself she killed a blade. She refers to the blade as Pattern.

The timeline makes sense though:

1. Shallan kills her mother

2. Her father stuffs the Blade into the Strongbox

3. The Blade disappears, Testament goes to Shallan the next day

4. Shallan kills Testament and 'forgets' all about it ever happening

5. There's no step five, because a glow could indicate any number of things. Additionally, Shallan has her memories with Testament, including Testament's death. They are part of her truth. If she'd killed Testament earlier, she would know.

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3 minutes ago, Nameless said:

There's no step five, because a glow could indicate any number of things. Additionally, Shallan has her memories with Testament, including Testament's death. They are part of her truth. If she'd killed Testament earlier, she would know.

I don't buy delusion or Unmade influence. It is too vague for me. Not all of her memories were restored. ("There are still holes in my past..") The next truths can recontextualize previous events. I believe it is not explicitly stated when she killed her in the garden. The reasons behind the killing may tie to her mother and therefore the next truth.

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15 hours ago, slavagh said:

I don't buy delusion or Unmade influence. It is too vague for me. Not all of her memories were restored. ("There are still holes in my past..") The next truths can recontextualize previous events. I believe it is not explicitly stated when she killed her in the garden. The reasons behind the killing may tie to her mother and therefore the next truth.

Why would Shallan's reaction to her spren being a Ghostblood be to kill Testament? And why would Shallan's mother say "She's one of them" when trying to kill Shallan, if Shallan had already killed her spren? The Skybreakers wouldn't care about her at that point, as she was no longer a Radiant.

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5 hours ago, Nameless said:

Why would Shallan's reaction to her spren being a Ghostblood be to kill Testament? And why would Shallan's mother say "She's one of them" when trying to kill Shallan, if Shallan had already killed her spren? The Skybreakers wouldn't care about her at that point, as she was no longer a Radiant.

I am not sure what I think of this theory but if Shallan did kill testament before her mother "She's one of them" could be refering to the ghostbloods and not the radiants.

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Just now, offer said:

I am not sure what I think of this theory but if Shallan did kill testament before her mother "She's one of them" could be refering to the ghostbloods and not the radiants.

If Shallan's mother tried to kill her because she was a Ghostblood and not because she was a Radiant, then why would her Skybreaker-associated lover help?

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12 minutes ago, Nameless said:

If Shallan's mother tried to kill her because she was a Ghostblood and not because she was a Radiant, then why would her Skybreaker-associated lover help?

I don`t have a clear explanation. Maybe general secret organizations feud or maybe the skybreakers are afraid that the ghostbloods action also might bring the desolations (although we haven`t seen it mentioned when we saw szeth with them).

Or maybe something else - there are probably a lot of other possible explanations for those organizations to not get along. 

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2 minutes ago, offer said:

I don`t have a clear explanation. Maybe general secret organizations feud or maybe the skybreakers are afraid that the ghostbloods action also might bring the desolations (although we haven`t seen it mentioned when we saw szeth with them).

Or maybe something else - there are probably a lot of other possible explanations for those organizations to not get along. 

Yes, but Testament being a member of the Ghosbloods is a pretty big leap. I won't say it's impossible, but I will say that Shallan's mother attempting to kill her because Shallan was Radiant is more likely than the opposite, given the information we have.

 

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13 minutes ago, Nameless said:

If Shallan's mother tried to kill her because she was a Ghostblood and not because she was a Radiant, then why would her Skybreaker-associated lover help?

I don't know why she tried to kill her. I only have a theory with too many assumptions.

1) I strongly believe in Mother-Herald theory.

2) Ghostbloods and Testament were after Mishram.

3) Heralds knew her location and didn't want her free(I believe Kalak changed his mind after Everstorm). In that period letting her free would have restored singers. Before Everstorm, even if Taln would have broken, the Fused didn't have bodies to possess.

4) I  think the confrontation happened because Shallan and Testament found out the location. Why the Herald would freak out and try to kill her daughter because she was a Radiant?Trying to protect the secret of Mishram's location is more plausible. Still messed up, but more plausible

 

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2 hours ago, slavagh said:

I don't know why she tried to kill her. I only have a theory with too many assumptions.

1) I strongly believe in Mother-Herald theory.

2) Ghostbloods and Testament were after Mishram.

3) Heralds knew her location and didn't want her free(I believe Kalak changed his mind after Everstorm). In that period letting her free would have restored singers. Before Everstorm, even if Taln would have broken, the Fused didn't have bodies to possess.

4) I  think the confrontation happened because Shallan and Testament found out the location. Why the Herald would freak out and try to kill her daughter because she was a Radiant?Trying to protect the secret of Mishram's location is more plausible. Still messed up, but more plausible

 

Fair. I still don't think this is the case, but crazier theories have been right before. I wish you luck with yours.

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17 hours ago, Nameless said:

Fair. I still don't think this is the case, but crazier theories have been right before. I wish you luck with yours.

Thanks)

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