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Heralds dying since Prologue

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Posted (edited)

We know since the prologue of WoK that the heralds broke the oathpact and abandoned Taln in braize as the sole bearer of the oathpact. That was 4 thousand years ago and until Moash kills Jezrien for good, we don’t know if any of the heralds have been “killed” which would send them back to braize. Is it plausible that any of them have died gone back to braize and then returned to roshar without affecting the oathpact or interacting with Taln? Do you guys think the heralds go to braize when they die now, and do y’all think they were sent to braize when they died before the oathpact or was the oathpact the only things connecting them to braize?

Edit: I have answered my own question or at least found some evidence:

From Oathbringer Chapter 38: “ ‘HE FINALLY BROKE’ the storm father said. ‘HE HAS JOINED THE NINE WHO STILL LIVE. IN THESE MILLENNIA NONE HAVE EVER DIED AND RETURNED TO DAMNATION’” 

Edited by Stoneshaper
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They broke the Oathpact, which means no more going back to Braize for them, except Taln, the only one who didn't break. It is stated by Ishar in RoW that the Oathpact can be re started, though I doubt they'll accomplish that. I think they just fade away when they are killed, since they are cognitive shadows, just like Jezrien.

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1 hour ago, Legui01010 said:

 I think they just fade away when they are killed, since they are cognitive shadows, just like Jezrien.

I disagree- if just killing them was enough, the Raysium dagger would have been unnecessary for both Jezrien and Kelek. The fact that equipment made of a God Metal was used suggests that a normal weapon wouldn't have permanently worked. 

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1 hour ago, Legui01010 said:

They broke the Oathpact, which means no more going back to Braize for them, except Taln, the only one who didn't break. It is stated by Ishar in RoW that the Oathpact can be re started, though I doubt they'll accomplish that. I think they just fade away when they are killed, since they are cognitive shadows, just like Jezrien.

I don't think so, Dalinar sees the remains of the oathpact, it may not be fully functional but they will return to Braize.

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1 hour ago, Frustration said:

I don't think so, Dalinar sees the remains of the oathpact, it may not be fully functional but they will return to Braize.

Not only that but talh didn’t break so theirs that 

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5 hours ago, Stoneshaper said:

From Oathbringer Chapter 38: “ ‘HE FINALLY BROKE’ the storm father said. ‘HE HAS JOINED THE NINE WHO STILL LIVE. IN THESE MILLENNIA NONE HAVE EVER DIED AND RETURNED TO DAMNATION’”

That is what the Stormfather believes as of that point in Oathbringer; which may or may not be correct overall (unreliable narrator) - especially since Stormfather also admitted to not liking the Heralds of most of that 4000 years (because they broke an oath) and not paying attention to them or what they were doing until after bonding Dalinar and beginning to see both sides of the story.

I will say that if a Herald suffered a mundane death (other than what happened to Jezrien), it is probable they would have returned to Braize.

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19 hours ago, Treamayne said:

That is what the Stormfather believes as of that point in Oathbringer; which may or may not be correct overall (unreliable narrator) - especially since Stormfather also admitted to not liking the Heralds of most of that 4000 years (because they broke an oath) and not paying attention to them or what they were doing until after bonding Dalinar and beginning to see both sides of the story.

I will say that if a Herald suffered a mundane death (other than what happened to Jezrien), it is probable they would have returned to Braize.

Also Jezrien just laughed the stabbing off like, “bro you just started a desolation”

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On 7/3/2022 at 9:23 PM, Treamayne said:

That is what the Stormfather believes as of that point in Oathbringer; which may or may not be correct overall (unreliable narrator) - especially since Stormfather also admitted to not liking the Heralds of most of that 4000 years (because they broke an oath) and not paying attention to them or what they were doing until after bonding Dalinar and beginning to see both sides of the story.

I will say that if a Herald suffered a mundane death (other than what happened to Jezrien), it is probable they would have returned to Braize.

I also hold the belief which may not be true that all of the Heralds but Taln are on Roshar at the start of Way of Kings. If one of the Heralds were to have been killed and returned to Braize, then they would likely still be there until when Taln returns or they would have started a desolation earlier. That is unless what Ishar did to the oathpact allowed the Heralds to leave Braize without starting a desolation.  

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I'm still a fan of the Chana was Shallan's mother and her death actually triggered the Return theory (i.e. Taln never broke but was just mad after 4.5k years of torture when he was sent back)

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Posted (edited)

3 hours ago, Stoneshaper said:

I also hold the belief which may not be true that all of the Heralds but Taln are on Roshar at the start of Way of Kings.

Don't forget that the Fused Return does not immediately follow the Heralds' return to Roshar. A Herald would break, they would all be sent back. Then some years later the Desolation would start as the Fused began to return (and not all Brands returned at the same time). That's why Taln's statement at the gates of Kholinar talks about the Heralds having some time (but not too much) to teach humanity medicine, forging, leadership, tactics and strategy.

Spoiler

I am Talenel’Elin, Herald of War. The time of the Return, the Desolation, is near at hand. We must prepare. You will have forgotten much, following the destruction of the times past.

Kalak will teach you to cast bronze, if you have forgotten this. We will Soulcast blocks of metal directly for you. I wish we could teach you steel, but casting is so much easier than forging, and you must have something we can produce quickly. Your stone tools will not serve against what is to come.

Vedel can train your surgeons, and Jezrien will teach you leadership. So much is lost between Returns. I will train your soldiers. We should have time. Ishar keeps talking about a way to keep information from being lost following Desolations. And you have discovered something unexpected. We will use that. Surgebinders to act as guardians … Knights …

The coming days will be difficult, but with training, humanity will survive. You must bring me to your leaders. The other Heralds should join us soon.

I think I am late, this time. I think … I fear, oh God, that I have failed. No. This is not right, is it? How long has it been? Where am I?

 

Edited by Treamayne
SPAG
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3 hours ago, Green Hoodie Mistborn said:

I'm still a fan of the Chana was Shallan's mother and her death actually triggered the Return theory (i.e. Taln never broke but was just mad after 4.5k years of torture when he was sent back)

I used to think the summoning of the everstorm by the listeners started the desolation, but was confused since Taln returns before that. I think we still don’t know how fused returns before the everstorm.

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7 hours ago, Stoneshaper said:

I used to think the summoning of the everstorm by the listeners started the desolation, but was confused since Taln returns before that. I think we still don’t know how fused returns before the everstorm.

Fused didn't return before the Everstorm - Voidspren did (granting the Regal Stormform so that the Everstorm could be summoned).

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