Turos Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Except that a person can be tortured into giving his breath. Thus using Awakening for evil. It's still possible, just harder. It's interesting that you must give away your Breath and it can't be stolen. This aligns perfectly with Endowment, the local Shard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheese Ninja Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) I'm still not sold on investiture giving them access to allomancy. Feruchemy utilizes both ruin and preservation in equal amounts, becoming end nuetral. The raw investiture they store should be Harmony, not preservation. Unless they pull it from a source that's mostly preservation... ...like human attributes... You're right, a tricky nicrosil ferring might be able to store enough pure Preservation enable themselves allomanticly. But they'd have to be clever, know what they're doing, and have a lot of raw Preservation. At this point I've become a little bit obsessed with the idea of a Double Nicrosil Twinborn. Unless we are told otherwise, I'm going to believe that something cool happens if they Compound a whole lot of Investiture (hundreds or thousands of years worth), store it in a big Nicrosilmind, and then tap it all at once. Edited January 10, 2012 by Cheese Ninja Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aradel Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 At this point I've become a little bit obsessed with the idea of a Double Nicrosil Twinborn. Unless we are told otherwise, I'm going to believe that something cool happens if they Compound a whole lot of Investiture (hundreds or thousands of years worth), store it in a big Nicrosilmind, and then tap it all at once. Depends on whether that investiture comes from preservation, ruin, or both. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satsuoni Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 Depends on whether that investiture comes from preservation, ruin, or both. Or does it? Remember, both can be used to power all metallic powers. I am starting to think that while the shape and use of investiture changes, the power itself does not, really. Maybe drawing too much of Ruin will infect you with its intent over time, but as long as it does not, the effects (of RAW investiture) should be similar. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReaderAt2046 Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 I forget where precisely, but we have since learned that you can create Hemalurgic spikes without killing the target. Which removes a big part of the "evil" stigma. Considering it can then be used as a non-lethal punishment for magic-using criminals and turned around to empower the police force equivalent, I'd have to say it has a very strong argument for not being inherently evil. Just most commonly used for evil. Plus this adds a whole new dimension to the capital punishment issue. Execute someone for committing murder, and society gains a Hemalurgic spike for some good use. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the95th Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 At this point I've become a little bit obsessed with the idea of a Double Nicrosil Twinborn. Unless we are told otherwise, I'm going to believe that something cool happens if they Compound a whole lot of Investiture (hundreds or thousands of years worth), store it in a big Nicrosilmind, and then tap it all at once. perhaps a soulbearer can store themselves in the metalmind, like for instance say they know they are about to die, and can store all of their personality etc. into the metal mind. And it can then be tapped by somone else, the only metalmind that can and they become that person for the time it is tapped.... I dunno random guess. Would be interesting, and the soulbearer's are like the last link to the previous terris race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turos Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 Now that would make for an intriguing plot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiken Frost Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 Plus this adds a whole new dimension to the capital punishment issue. Execute someone for committing murder, and society gains a Hemalurgic spike for some good use. Like, to arm a type of SWAT team... That could use their powers to stop criminal allomancers and ferrings... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turos Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 So, could one spike be used to draw from more than one person? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) I see no reason why not, assuming the spike is large enough to accommodate charge in excess of what is gained from the first. (RPG says the spike's total mass is irrelevant, but we have Marsh's word that smaller ones hold less of a charge. Take it from Ruin: size does matter.) EDIT: New thoughts. As an alternative to another circle, perhaps we could make a pyramid out of the Feruchemical metals. Patterning after the one Maslow did: Self-transcendence (Frankl): Nicrosil (Investiture) Self-actualization: Aluminum (Identity) Esteem: Electrum (Determination), Zinc (Mental Speed) Love/belonging: Duralumin (Connection), Copper (Memories) Safety: Gold (Healing), Pewter (Strength), Tin (Senses), Steel (Physical Speed), Chromium (Fortune) Physiological: Brass (Warmth), Cadmium (Breath), Bendalloy (Energy), Bronze (Wakefulness), Iron (Weight) Now, these are obviously speculative, but I have my reasons. Bendalloy, Cadmium, Bronze, and Brass are all storing basic necessities for later. Iron does as well, though not in as obvious a way: in space travel, you could up your gravitational pull if you accidentally hit escape velocity, diminishing your velocity and recovering. Possibly a stretch, but there's not as much use for tapping as storing, and I'm trying to work from the idea that the tapping is the default benefit. So, there we have Physiological Metals. Gold, Pewter, Tin, Steel, and Chromium have powerful and fairly direct defensive utility, so I think those are easy enough to call Safety Metals. Duralumin is easy for Love/Belonging, but Memories are just as important. To make a memory, and then preserve it carefully (the way Kelsier did with Mare's flower picture), taking it out occasionally to remind yourself of it... Well, I think its rather sweet. Esteem is characterized by the desire to be self-confident, which I would consider the primary effect of Electrum, as well as independence, which I would consider the primary use of Zinc (to avoid relying on outside aid, particularly when the outcome would be increasingly negative by taking the time to do so). Self-actualization and Aluminum... Next! Self-transcendence and Nicrosil. Well, without a better understanding of exactly what Nicrosil stores, I think this is the best place for it. Overcoming the basic limitations of a Feruchemist (or Allomancer, or Hemalurgist...) seems pretty transcendent to me. Edited January 14, 2012 by Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pechvarry Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 ...like human attributes... This probably isn't the place for it, but I read this and thought of the hemalurgic augmentation spikes, and what effect stored Investiture would have on said spikes. In turn, this makes me think about the interaction of any Nicrosil Ferring receiving a spike. I'm sure there are some really awesome implications, here. I'm just not sure what they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zas678 Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 (RPG says the spike's total mass is irrelevant, but we have Marsh's word that smaller ones hold less of a charge. Take it from Ruin: size does matter.) Errr... Actually, size doesn't matter for the charge. It only matters in how well the charge keeps. A puny spike deteriorates really fast, but a big one deteriorates slowly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted April 25, 2014 Report Share Posted April 25, 2014 Like, to arm a type of SWAT team... That could use their powers to stop criminal allomancers and ferrings... Isn't that what the Lord Ruler technically did with the inquisitors....... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swimmingly Posted April 25, 2014 Report Share Posted April 25, 2014 That's also the premise for the second trilogy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted April 25, 2014 Report Share Posted April 25, 2014 @Swimmingly, you mean only the SWAT part of that post right? I have heard that part, but not using hemalurgic spikes on criminals to give the SWAT team powers. In my opinion that would be a pretty twisted modern society if they did that lol. But I guess it is all subjective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swimmingly Posted April 25, 2014 Report Share Posted April 25, 2014 Not that part, no. Though that would be a reasonable, if harsh, alternative to the death penalty as it's administered here. Instead of a lethal injection, you're sedated and executed hemalurgically. Still creepy, but whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted April 26, 2014 Report Share Posted April 26, 2014 I have a feeling a lot Rashek's plans started that way "it would be harsh but reasonable...." lol. I do see your points swimmingly and they are excellent ones at that. In fact whats great about them is it would make a great plot of a book. A corrupt system could easily be forged within it. A politician or police commisioner pays off or manipulates records to get undesirables (bums, rebels, protestors) with powers framed for capital crimes. Set them up to be executed hemalurgically, and then give the spikes to trusted agents in the system. Then when the time is ripe, take over with you hemalurgic enhanced army and anyone with abilities able to stop you are already dead "legally". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggai Posted April 26, 2014 Report Share Posted April 26, 2014 At this point I've become a little bit obsessed with the idea of a Double Nicrosil Twinborn. Unless we are told otherwise, I'm going to believe that something cool happens if they Compound a whole lot of Investiture (hundreds or thousands of years worth), store it in a big Nicrosilmind, and then tap it all at once.I posted something similar about this earlier in another thread. I wondered if they could take on a Shard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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