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All Feruchemical powers revealed *Cosmere Spoilers and Discussion*


callumke

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Also, I find another thing interesting. The writer mentions that "most" of the Kandra serve Harmony. I wonder what the implications of this are. Are there evil Kandra, like the Mistwraith stories of old? Is TenSoon one of those? Is that why Bloody Tan saw him (as Kelsier) and Marsh meeting? Did they talk to him specifically?

Wait, what? Where was this? I totally missed that.

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Wait, what? Where was this? I totally missed that.

Page 332.

Most of the pages, if you can't see them on Amazon anymore, have been screencapped for your viewing pleasure and are on the initial post of this topic.

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When the author of the Ars Arcanum says that Hemalurgy is interesting and has possibilites, he seems to imply that it could be used to steal other powers. My issue with this is, that would it have to be a person with the spiritual DNA from Scadrial? Or could it be any place that Ruin has been. It seems insane that Ruin's magic system could work throughout the entire Cosmere, but that is why I feel like it might. It is the power of change and change is always happening. However if this was going to be the case, would Hemalurgy have to have a different focus on each planet or would metal work on all of them. So far it is the only power that we have come across that is not bound by a person's spiritualDNA.

On a side note, I feel like Hemalurgy could steal the spiritual DNA that allowed a person to use Breath, attract an Honor Spren, or possibly even become an Elantrian if the correct DNA was stolen, and you had Sazed or maybe Marsh to show you the bind points.

Also is there any reason that Bloody Tan could not have seen the real Kelsier? He was hanging around, and though Sazed was not able to reach out and get Vin and Elend, Kel seemed to be much more accessible. Crap i am really off topic.

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It could be Hoid. In fact, it makes a lot of sense. I've got this crazy thought though - perhaps because I am not a native English speaker. The word "investiture" is not one I see used often. In fact, the only times when I have seen it used is when Vasher talks to Vivenna about the different types of Biochromatic entities. Perhaps we'd get lucky and see Vasher join the Seventeenth Shard?

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Hemalurgy always seemed like the odd one out, since you don't actually have to use magic to use it; Hemalurgy seems more like a knowledge system than Allomancy or Feruchemy. If a Spiritweb is an aspect of a human on the spiritual plane, then it seems perfectly possible for Hemalurgy to be used by someone not from Scadrial, or stealing a power other than a Metallic Art.

I am split over the tone of the final paragraph. When I first read it, thinking the writer was Hoid, it seemed to be be suggesting that Hemalurgy didn't necessarily need to kill, or even harm, in order for there to be a transfer of powers.

At its core, Hemalurgy deals with removing abilities - or attributes - from one person and bestowing it on another. It is primarily concerned with things of the Spiritual Realm, and is of the greatest interest to me.

This doesn't mention killing in any way.

But the other interpretation, at least to me, is that the person writing doesn't care that Hemalurgy is deadly. If so, then it sounds like someone who will do whatever it takes to achieve their goal, even if an army of Inquisitor-esque monsters who can use every type of magic is required. Scary.

EDIT: Was just looking at the Lord ruler's strength thread, and it got me thinking. Was the lord ruler stronger Allomantically because he was tapping Investiture from a Nicrosil metalmind? Storing Investiture to me sounds like storing Allomantic or Feruchemical Strength. And using the Feruchemy-powered by Allomancy trick, he could have a huge supply of Investiture.

Edited by FireArcadia
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Page 332.

Most of the pages, if you can't see them on Amazon anymore, have been screencapped for your viewing pleasure and are on the initial post of this topic.

Thanks for that. I'll check that out.

they could have just been like, "I'd rather find a secluded place to live and plant beans.".

I love this.

My issue with this is, that would it have to be a person with the spiritual DNA from Scadrial?

I'm willing to bet that, considering what we know of the nature of hemalurgy, anyone in the cosmere who is aware of the science of hemalurgy could use it to soak up aspects of the Spiritwebs of any person from any planet and Invest it into someone else. (Ooh, or possibly anything else, as long as it has a Spiritweb of its own that the spike can "staple" the other 'web to. Do Lifeless have Spiritwebs? Probably not, but hmm...)

At least, that's what I'm hoping. That would make things fun.

It could be Hoid. In fact, it makes a lot of sense.

Well, I'm sure that's what everyone's first thoughts would be, and Brandon probably knows we'd think that, too, but I'm not sure. The tone of this Ars Arcanum and The Letter are different. This AA seems to be written by someone with a seriously scholarly bent. Hoid's no idiot, but he doesn't strike me as an academic. He's more like the guy who sneaks around behind the scenes, putting himself in places where one tiny nudge from him will make a world of different to a world.

Perhaps we'd get lucky and see Vasher join the Seventeenth Shard?

Oh, now that would be cool, wouldn't it? If the Seventeenth Shard were made up of someone from every Investiture - an Elantrian, a Dakhor, an Awakener, an Allomancer, a Feruchemist, a Hemalurgist, a Windrunner... >:D

Was just looking at the Lord ruler's strength thread, and it got me thinking. Was the lord ruler stronger Allomantically because he was tapping Investiture from a Nicrosil metalmind? Storing Investiture to me sounds like storing Allomantic or Feruchemical Strength. And using the Feruchemy-powered by Allomancy trick, he could have a huge supply of Investiture.

Actually, that makes a lot of sense. We were told that Rashek learned everything he knew about hemalurgy from his time accessing the Well's power, so it's not unlikely that he learned a lot about allomancy and feruchemy, too.

I think this could be the solution to that particular debate.

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3. I don't know if it's Hoid. Maybe. It's at least a worldhopper. The way the author suggests "end positive, according to my terminology" suggests that he is more learning these concepts as he is moving along. Hoid would know these concepts inside and out, judging from how long he has lived.

Personal theory here and it seems to make sense in context, the person that wrote this is in fact the recipient of "the letter." Why? They have a non-intervention policy which leads me to believe they are just a traveling scholar. Why it's not Hoid is simple, Hoid meddles to much and doesn't seem to concerned in the how it works so much as sticking his nose in the worlds business. Or it does sound a bit like Sazed. Maybe this is his long epigraph...

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Personal theory here and it seems to make sense in context, the person that wrote this is in fact the recipient of "the letter." Why? They have a non-intervention policy which leads me to believe they are just a traveling scholar. Why it's not Hoid is simple, Hoid meddles to much and doesn't seem to concerned in the how it works so much as sticking his nose in the worlds business. Or it does sound a bit like Sazed. Maybe this is his long epigraph...

But the recipient of the letter also would have been alive pretty much forever, and so the "end positive, according to my terminology" phrase still doesn't fit. That's a phrase a newbie says, guys.

If this is Sazed then he is associated with the Seventeenth Shard.

It's not Sazed ever, the author refers to Harmony. Sazed would not refer to himself in the third person.

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But the recipient of the letter also would have been alive pretty much forever, and so the "end positive, according to my terminology" phrase still doesn't fit. That's a phrase a newbie says, guys.

I'm not sure that is necessarily true. If this is a personal memo, then maybe.

But if it is part of a larger document written by one person to another, then it fits fine, so long as the recipient is not as knowledgeable in the same field.

Personally, I think it is a piece of research done by a seventeenth shard member to another. Or something similar.

OR

WOK spoiler (I guess that's fair)

From Hoid to a seventeenth shard member. Correct me if I'm wrong, but AoL is supposed to be set before the WoK. We don't know how long the seventeenth shard has been trying to stop Hoid. They could be working together at this point.

Hoid seems much less interventionist everywhere pre-WoK. Maybe they are on better terms at this point.

Edited by FireArcadia
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I'm not sure that is necessarily true. If this is a personal memo, then maybe.

But if it is part of a larger document written by one person to another, then it fits fine, so long as the recipient is not as knowledgeable in the same field.

Personally, I think it is a piece of research done by a seventeenth shard member to another. Or something similar.

OR

WOK spoiler (I guess that's fair)

From Hoid to a seventeenth shard member. Correct me if I'm wrong, but AoL is supposed to be set before the WoK. We don't know how long the seventeenth shard has been trying to stop Hoid. They could be working together at this point.

Hoid seems much less interventionist everywhere pre-WoK. Maybe they are on better terms at this point.

I think that the author of the Ars Arcanum is a member of the Seventeenth Shard from Sel, most likely Raoden, who is making the list as an entry in a sort of encyclopedia of Investiture in the Cosmere. I contemplated it being Vasher, due to Vasher's scholarly background (and if anyone from Nalthis could be a member of the SS it would be Vasher; he is probably the most knowledgeable person on Nalthis, with Yesteel being nearby. Vasher deducing that there are other worlds wouldn't isn't much of a stretch.) However, afaik Alloy of Law takes place before Warbreaker (someone correct me if I am wrong,) making that particular idea a dud (and Vasher's pattern of speech doesn't quite fit with the Ars Arcanum chapter: Vasher is very specific when talking about Bio-Chroma in Chapter 46 of Warbreaker, while the AA author is speaking of the Metallic Arts in a very general fashion. Even the individual entries on the metals don't go into as much depth as Vasher does when speaking with Vivenna about Bio-Chroma.)

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Odd side note, but the writer does not seem to know that Marsh still is alive. And seems to have discovered a way either to see Kandra when they have eaten a body, or has found some renegade ones, which he discovered. Kandra dont seem to be that well known among the general population.

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and if anyone from Nalthis could be a member of the SS it would be Vasher

Heil! Oh, wait. Wrong SS. >_>

Back to seriousness. I'm thinking it's someone we haven't seen yet. (Or, perhaps, someone we've seen only once, and too briefly to remember.) I contemplated that it might be Jasna who wrote that Ars, but then I discarded that thought. Even if she knew how to use Shadesmar to go between worlds, she's too focused on voidbringers to worry about the magic systems of other planets.

It may be someone who shows up in AoL as a not-quite-prominent role - not a background character, but not someone that Wax would rely on to get his goals accomplished. (And considering how the author refers to the metallic arts - in a distant manner, as if s/he hadn't grown up around them - the author has to be someone from off-world.)

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Heil! Oh, wait. Wrong SS. >_>

Back to seriousness. I'm thinking it's someone we haven't seen yet. (Or, perhaps, someone we've seen only once, and too briefly to remember.) I contemplated that it might be Jasna who wrote that Ars, but then I discarded that thought. Even if she knew how to use Shadesmar to go between worlds, she's too focused on voidbringers to worry about the magic systems of other planets.

It may be someone who shows up in AoL as a not-quite-prominent role - not a background character, but not someone that Wax would rely on to get his goals accomplished. (And considering how the author refers to the metallic arts - in a distant manner, as if s/he hadn't grown up around them - the author has to be someone from off-world.)

:D

I agree with Jasnah not being the author. (Besides, she probably isn't born yet; afaik, AoL takes place some time before WoK.) I'm thinking it is an Elantrian member of the SS: the references to Sel and its magic, and only Sel, support this.

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hmm, just had a thought... what was the name of that kid in elantris? the autistic savant who was taken by the shaod but his family hid it?

anyhow, it could be him, as he definitely had a mind that would be suited to scholarly pursuits, and as an autistic person, he might be less likely to view hemalurgy as an evil thing, since his mind does not necessarily reason in those terms. the language of the essay might at first seem incongruous with his character, but he's had a lot of time to blossom and develop as an elantrian since we last saw him.

in fact, this might even be a little teaser from Brandon, since this kid is apparently the main character of the second elantris novel, iirc. we could go back in time and see how he grew into a respected scholar and member of the seventeenth shard.

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If there's a mistake in a book, we fix it in the next printing or next edition.

Or you could handwave it by saying that

nearby individuals
mean individuals physically hugging the Smoker, which is why nobody noticed the effects before B)

To Sunblesser: Hemalurgy is not evil, it is an opportunity for honorable self-sacrifice (among other things). Also, we don't know if it is possible to steal only part of the power by inflicting a non-lethal wound in a specific place. Blood, as mentioned by Marsh, has to be involved, but it is unknown about death. Maybe it is like Breath in Warbreaker - most people only manipulate integer amounts, but Vasher had once used something that semmed like a part-breath to remove memories. Likewise, the known Hemalurgy takes everything (whole ability/ set), and then loses it gradually until fixed in place, but there is no telling if it is limited to that. (As an aside, I have always wondered if is was possible to transfer sentience with it. We know that it can be used on animals, so maybe a proper application will result in a sentient Mistborn/Feruchemist superstorng cat-Inquisitor).

Edited by Satsuoni
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We know that it can be used on animals, so maybe a proper application will result in a sentient Mistborn/Feruchemist superstorng cat-Inquisitor)

That must be one of the more disturbing things I've heard in a while... Assuming there would be 1 for sentience, 1 for each of the 16 allomantic powers, and 1 for each of the 16 feruchemical powers, that would be 33 spikes... in a CAT...

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We know that it can be used on animals, so maybe a proper application will result in a sentient Mistborn/Feruchemist superstorng cat-Inquisitor)

That must be one of the more disturbing AWESOME things I've heard in a while... Assuming there would be 1 for sentience, 1 for each of the 16 allomantic powers, and 1 for each of the 16 feruchemical powers, that would be 33 spikes... in a CAT...

I fixed that for you. :)

EDIT: Actually, I love the idea of a Cat Inquisition so much that I will join that noble organization. New title/avatar incoming!

Edited by Kurkistan
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