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Friendly Cremling

I just finished BoM and I’m screaming [SPOILERS]

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Like the title says, I recently finished Bands  of Mourning and Secret history. My thoughts? WHAT IN HARMONY’S RUSTING FOREARMS JUST HAPPENED?!  Ok but seriously I’m pretty sure that spikes how he came back. I just don’t have any idea how he did that. Anyway, tell me your thoughts, because I’m bad at theories.

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Posted (edited)

It's not really supposed to be a mystery about the spike, but the real question is the body. Is it his or someone or something else. We probably aren't going to get a whole lot of that in The Lost Metal, it's more likely to be era 3 or 4 before our friend is really in the spotlight again.

Edited by Tower
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Posted (edited)

Spoiler

Yeah I know the spike is pretty obvious but I’m just wondering if he did something like Nale did with Szeth or if this was something different entirely. (Also if it’s not his body where’d the scars on his arms come from?

Edited by Friendly Cremling
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21 minutes ago, Friendly Cremling said:
Spoiler

Yeah I know the spike is pretty obvious, but I’m just wondering if he did something like Nale did with Szeth or if this was something different entirely. (Also if it’s not his body where’d the scars on his arms come from?)

 

Spoiler that please, since this is the mistborn forum.

Spoiler

But yeah I'd say it's probably pretty similar. Both are just stapling a cognitive shadow to a body, I think

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8 hours ago, Friendly Cremling said:
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Yeah I know the spike is pretty obvious but I’m just wondering if he did something like Nale did with Szeth or if this was something different entirely. (Also if it’s not his body where’d the scars on his arms come from?

Spoiler

I would bet that whatever body was used or created, it would "heal" to having those scars because that is how his cognitive aspect sees himself

 

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9 hours ago, Friendly Cremling said:
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Yeah I know the spike is pretty obvious but I’m just wondering if he did something like Nale did with Szeth or if this was something different entirely. (Also if it’s not his body where’d the scars on his arms come from?

Spoiler

One of my favorite theories is the body being a mistwraith stapled over with his Cognitive Shadow. 

 

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11 hours ago, Friendly Cremling said:

Like the title says, I recently finished Bands  of Mourning and Secret history. My thoughts? WHAT IN HARMONY’S RUSTING FOREARMS JUST HAPPENED?!  Ok but seriously I’m pretty sure that spikes how he came back. I just don’t have any idea how he did that. Anyway, tell me your thoughts, because I’m bad at theories.

Harmony? I think you mean the Survivor’s…

Jokes aside, I love seeing your reaction. This is the best way to find out. Now go read Secret History for some answers - and more questions!

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Kelsier is using his own body

Cosmere spoilers

Spoiler

Questioner

With regards to certain experiments, would it be fair to say Ishar and a certain Scadrian have similar goals? 

Brandon Sanderson

*hesitation noises* I don't know that I would say that 100%. The certain Scadrian you reference has been able to achieve the goals that he wants. Let's see if I can circumlocute this: there's a certain set of bones floating around that already has a Connection to this individual, which was useful in achieving what he wanted to do, which is not a luxury that Ishar has. 

JordanCon 2021 (July 17, 2021)

 

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5 hours ago, Frustration said:

Kelsier is using his own body

Cosmere spoilers

  Hide contents

Questioner

With regards to certain experiments, would it be fair to say Ishar and a certain Scadrian have similar goals? 

Brandon Sanderson

*hesitation noises* I don't know that I would say that 100%. The certain Scadrian you reference has been able to achieve the goals that he wants. Let's see if I can circumlocute this: there's a certain set of bones floating around that already has a Connection to this individual, which was useful in achieving what he wanted to do, which is not a luxury that Ishar has. 

JordanCon 2021 (July 17, 2021)

Cosmere spoilers

Spoiler

Bones, not body. Those bones no longer have a body. . . which is the crux of the question. Are the bones in a Mistwraith that Kel's Cognitive Shadow is somehow able to inhabit, or was he somehow able to make a body for the bones in some fashion similar to how the Heralds receive bodies when they return from Braize?

 

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7 hours ago, Treamayne said:

Cosmere spoilers

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Bones, not body. Those bones no longer have a body. . . which is the crux of the question. Are the bones in a Mistwraith that Kel's Cognitive Shadow is somehow able to inhabit, or was he somehow able to make a body for the bones in some fashion similar to how the Heralds receive bodies when they return from Braize?

 

I'd say he just used f-gold and healed one for himself.

How he got feruchemy I have only guesses.

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It's not really analogous to (Stormlight)

Spoiler

Szeth being healed by Nale using a Regrowth fabrial - Szeth was never really all-the-way dead, his soul is 'incompletely attached' now but he didn't actually become a Cognitive Shadow. The Regrowth method used on Gawx and Szeth doesn't work once the soul/cognitive is completely disconnected.

Kelsier, by contrast, was dead for at least several years (from the end of book 1 to sometime after the end of book 3).

I think the "mistwraith using Kelsier's bones with Kelsier's soul spiked in instead of a Blessing" theory is the best so far, though Marasi's comment that mistwraiths might be extinct post-Catacendre is an issue.

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On 6/26/2022 at 3:36 PM, cometaryorbit said:

It's not really analogous to (Stormlight)

  Reveal hidden contents

Szeth being healed by Nale using a Regrowth fabrial - Szeth was never really all-the-way dead, his soul is 'incompletely attached' now but he didn't actually become a Cognitive Shadow. The Regrowth method used on Gawx and Szeth doesn't work once the soul/cognitive is completely disconnected.

Kelsier, by contrast, was dead for at least several years (from the end of book 1 to sometime after the end of book 3).

I think the "mistwraith using Kelsier's bones with Kelsier's soul spiked in instead of a Blessing" theory is the best so far, though Marasi's comment that mistwraiths might be extinct post-Catacendre is an issue.

I think it's clearly implied they're not, if you picked up on it - in Ch. 3 of BoM, VenDell and MeLaan object to Wax's innocent question as to why they couldn't use Inquisitor hemalurgic spikes in place of kandra Blessing spikes:

Quote

“You are misunderstanding the nature of these spikes,” VenDell all but sputtered. “First, we do not have kandra Blessings ‘lying around.’ ...”

“Yeah,” MeLaan said. “If that worked, we’d have already used all those spikes to make new children. We can’t; a kandra Blessing must be created very specifically.”

The reason there have been no new generations of kandra is due to there being no new Blessings and the impossibility of inheriting or reusing them, not because there are no more proto-kandra (mistwraiths).  And in fact, they are ready, willing, and able to raise new kandra, but for that limitation.

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Hmm good point. I wonder where they are though, if kandra know about them but humans don't.

(Or could kandra reproduce to produce mistwraiths?)

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4 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said:

Hmm good point. I wonder where they are though, if kandra know about them but humans don't.

I'm willing to bet they're mostly in caves outside the Basin, since they fled light already in Era 1 Mistborn and were probably herded there by the kandra, explaining why they know about the mistwraiths but humans don't.

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On 6/26/2022 at 3:36 PM, cometaryorbit said:

It's not really analogous to (Stormlight)

  Hide contents
Spoiler

Szeth being healed by Nale using a Regrowth fabrial - Szeth was never really all-the-way dead, his soul is 'incompletely attached' now but he didn't actually become a Cognitive Shadow. The Regrowth method used on Gawx and Szeth doesn't work once the soul/cognitive is completely disconnected.

 

Kelsier, by contrast, was dead for at least several years (from the end of book 1 to sometime after the end of book 3).

I think the "mistwraith using Kelsier's bones with Kelsier's soul spiked in instead of a Blessing" theory is the best so far, though Marasi's comment that mistwraiths might be extinct post-Catacendre is an issue.

Spoiler

I don't think the situations are really as different as you're making them out to be. In the cosmere, when your physical self dies, your cognitive self hangs around a little while longer before moving on. In szeth's case, they used a fabrial very quickly before his spirit moved on to reattach his cognitive self to his body. In Kelsier's case, his cognitive self normally would have moved on by now, but he got preservation to keep him around so he didn't, and then many years later got his cognitive self reattached to a body (possibly his own? Unclear). But in both cases, the cognitive self got reattached before it moved on

 

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Posted (edited)

On 6/27/2022 at 6:33 PM, Stormtide_Leviathan said:
Spoiler

I don't think the situations are really as different as you're making them out to be. In the Cosmere, when your physical self dies, your cognitive self hangs around a little while longer before moving on. In Szeth's case, they used a fabrial very quickly before his spirit moved on to reattach his cognitive self to his body. In Kelsier's case, his cognitive self normally would have moved on by now, but he got preservation to keep him around so he didn't, and then many years later got his cognitive self reattached to a body (possibly his own? Unclear). But in both cases, the cognitive self got reattached before it moved on

 

A whole lot of Secret History/SA spoilers and speculation:

Spoiler

I think you may be conflating "moving on" with a "detached cognitive aspect (CA)." Just because the CA is still in the CR, doesn't mean it still has connection to the person's former physical body (as mentioned by Fuzz). My guess is that the point at which the "Beyond" begins pulling on the CA is the point at which the Connection between the soul and the body is severed (and shifted to the Beyond). So, even if you avoid "moving on" you still no longer have connection to the PR.

The use of the Regrowth Fabrial has to happen before that "shift" occurs. Probably, it had barely started on Szeth (but not completely severed) which is why his soul is improperly attached (the Regrowth doesn't restore the connection, so the portion that had severed to shift over has remained severed).

Edited by Treamayne
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^ Yeah, that's how I read it.

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On 27/06/2022 at 7:19 PM, cometaryorbit said:

Hmm good point. I wonder where they are though, if kandra know about them but humans don't.

(Or could kandra reproduce to produce mistwraiths?)

Well, if two kandra remove their spikes so you now have a mistwraith couple and just need some time. Problem solved.

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4 hours ago, Raphaborn said:

Well, if two kandra remove their spikes so you now have a mistwraith couple and just need some time. Problem solved.

Assuming Mistwraiths use a form of sexual reproduction. However, I think it is more likely, due to that whole shifting skeleton thing, that Mistwraiths us a form of asexual reproduction like budding or fission.

That said, there is plenty of countryside and a huge section of Roughs we haven't seen and know very little about. . .

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