How I Think Kandra Blessings Are Made

[Trusk'our]

Okay, so this is something that I've been wondering about for a very, very long time, and I'll probably know for certain how it works after The Lost Metal is released, so it's pretty much now or never if I want to post a theory about how Kandra Blessings are made.

We know that it's not necessarily a difference in the recipient, the mistwraith, that makes a Kandra Blessing special. 

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Questioner

If a mistwraith eats a Koloss will it [?].

Brandon Sanderson

If a Mistwraith eats a Koloss, you're asking "will it become it", um, "will it gain sapience because it now has Feruchemical* spikes?" Any Feruchemical* spike is not necessarily enough to make the creature we call 'Kandra', but there may be very weird side effects to what you just described.

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Questioner

What's the difference between a spike prepared for a Koloss and a spike prepared for a Mistwraith or Kandra? What side effects might occur from... [?]... Koloss spikes?

Brandon Sanderson

It's the pieces of the soul that are being ripped off and the amount of the soul that's being ripped off. That's a big part of it. What side effects would there be? You would probably not get something as intelligent.

Questioner

What's the difference in how you prepare those spikes?

Brandon Sanderson

The Koloss spikes, you've seen how they're done. The Kandra spikes were prepared by the Lord Ruler. He gave them to them, and so we don't know what he did, at least in canon.

Questioner 2

That means that we kind of screwed up the role playing.

Brandon Sanderson

You can totally do- I imagine all the role playing happening in a slightly different alternate universe, where there are slight variations and differences.

But yeah, there are no- Kandra spikes are prepared and given by the Lord Ruler, they didn't even know how to make them themselves. I mean they had an inkling of what went on, but they didn't know.

We also know that the metals themselves aren't likely to be particularly special, as they are made of standard Hemalurgically viable metals, and it seems unlikely to me that there is another kind of metal hidden underneath the top layer as it wouldn't likely be congruent with the same bind point as the external metal.

This really only leaves one option for process of creating Kandra Blessings that could be different from the creation of other Hemalurgic spikes; it must be the donors that are special.

Therefore, it is my guess that when the Lord Ruler created Kandra Blessings, he forced the people he was going to Hemalurgically spike to blank their Identity using special Unsealed Metalminds he created specifically for that purpose.

Identity is what separates and protects a Spiritweb from outside influences, which likely is why Hemalurgic spikes made through the standard method that hold the Identity of the donor still have some limitations, such as not granting resonances, not passing Allomantic potency to the descendants of the spike holder, and preventing the spikes from being burned Allomantically. 

However, if the donors didn't have an Identity while being spiked, then the mistwraiths would be able to access the contents of the spike more freely, allowing for them to gain a greater measure of sapience. 

I also think that the donors of the spikes were likely close relatives, as their Spiritweb's familiarity with one another due to their shared Connection would make them work more congruently in the newly made Kandra.

Finally, I think that the reason why two Hemalurgic spikes are required to make a fully sapient Kandra is because Hemalurgic spikes only take a piece of a functional Spiritweb, not the whole thing, so having two compatible spikes working together would help fully form a Kandra's mind.

If anybody has any other ideas as to how Kandra Blessings are made, I'd love to hear them  

[cometaryorbit]

Hmm, I would have assumed something like precision in spiking - if the difference is "the pieces of the soul that are being ripped off" (and amount) that would to me suggest the spiking process is different/more precise, to get a more complete "human strength/senses/whatever" spiritweb-chunk.

This wouldn't have occurred to me as I think Unsealed Metalminds were a post Catacendre invention.

[Trusk'our]

On 6/28/2022 at 1:37 PM, cometaryorbit said:

This wouldn't have occurred to me as I think Unsealed Metalminds were a post Catacendre invention.

That's true, but Rashek knew certain things about allomancy and feruchemy due to his ascension. Plus, he prepared the spikes himself - so their was something going on with their creation that could have been dangerous to the Lord Ruler, as he doesn't seem like the kind of guy to do anything personally unless it was of great importance. Unsealed Metalminds would have been very dangerous in his eyes, as they could potentially be used to create someone as powerful as himself (can't find the quote right now as I'm a mobile device).

[cometaryorbit]

On 6/30/2022 at 3:00 PM, Trusk'our said:

Plus, he prepared the spikes himself - so their was something going on with their creation that could have been dangerous to the Lord Ruler, as he doesn't seem like the kind of guy to do anything personally unless it was of great importance.

Hmm, I figured it was because he didn't want anyone else to know how it was done.

Hemalurgy was pretty secret; from Marsh infiltrating the Steel Ministry, regular obligators didn't know how Inquisitors were made despite effort in spying. (Though a few in the Canton of Inquisition or directly involved with koloss might have known.)

Kandra specifically stayed away from Inquisitors, putting that requirement in their Contracts.

Did anyone other than TLR and the kandra know that kandra were made by Hemalurgy? I got the feeling that the "cover story" was that they (and koloss) were created at the Well.

Edited July 3, 2022 by cometaryorbit

[Stormtide_Leviathan]

On 7/2/2022 at 8:05 PM, cometaryorbit said:

I got the feeling that the "cover story" was that they (and koloss) were created at the Well.

Was the Well common knowledge? I can't remember but I wouldn't think so.

I agree it would make sense if kandra blessings were made using some technique the LR wouldn't want anyone (even inquisitors, possibly especially them) to know about like blanked identities

[cometaryorbit]

I thought TLR at the Well was depicted in some art in book 1?

I know Yomen and Elend argue citations about it in book 3, which at least shows it was known to literary nobles.

[+Oltux72]

On 24.6.2022 at 8:21 PM, Trusk'our said:

This really only leaves one option for process of creating Kandra Blessings that could be different from the creation of other Hemalurgic spikes; it must be the donors that are special.

Therefore, it is my guess that when the Lord Ruler created Kandra Blessings, he forced the people he was going to Hemalurgically spike to blank their Identity using special Unsealed Metalminds he created specifically for that purpose.

Unfortunately again Paalm pretty much disproves that. She made new spikes. And if it took special metal minds only the Lord Ruler had, she would have lacked them. The victim Waxillium and Wayne found had no indication of anything but the standard hemalurgical spike through the heart.

On 24.6.2022 at 8:21 PM, Trusk'our said:

If anybody has any other ideas as to how Kandra Blessings are made, I'd love to hear them  

By Intent. You must mean to create a Kandra when you spike the donor or the Mistwraith.

[Rabbit Unmade]

On 7/6/2022 at 8:53 PM, cometaryorbit said:

I thought TLR at the Well was depicted in some art in book 1?

The Well was part of their religion, so pretty much anyone who knew the legends knew about the Well.

If it was Intent don’t you think the Kandra would have already made new spikes? They’ve been trying, right? Maybe you need to try and make a spike for a certain mistwraith and that’s why Kandra spit out spikes that aren’t theirs.

Maybe you need to use Intent and intend to rip a lot of the sapience from a soulweb. Just a random thought.

Perhaps the Lord Ruler made Kandra spikes from himself. He might be able to heal it and since he was still alive the Kandra would gain sapience because they were Connected to him. But then why are Kandra still around? They should have turned into mistwraiths after the Lord Ruler died! I have no idea. Maybe because the Kandra had had the spikes for so long? I might need a little help on that part. Anyway, Paalm could have made her spikes by spiking two people. Someone with the Feruchemical or Allomantic ability and another person who was a gold Feruchemist. (Can a normal gold Feruchemist survive a would like that?) 
I don’t think this is a very good theory, sadly. It was the best I could think of at the moment. Feel free to dissect it.

 

[whargolflorp]

Kandra blessings probably have something to do with where you spike the victim, in order to tear off the correct bit of soul.  Koloss might be a result of spiking the wrong/a different bindpoint in their creation, resulting in side effects of loss of intelligence and blue skin and so on.  Kandra Blessings of Potency could be the result of tearing off an extra bit that acts as a key to the kandra spiritweb, completing it. 

Hemalurgy requires great working knowledge of the bindpoints, and I think this is important in both the initial spiking and the final.  

 

Counterpoint: Wax's earring was an inquisitor spike and worked just fine on Paalm, so maybe no special construction is stricty necessary.  Kandra are weird with spikes, anywhere seems to be a valid bindpoint.

[+Oltux72]

On 1.8.2022 at 0:30 AM, Rabbit Unmade said:

If it was Intent don’t you think the Kandra would have already made new spikes? They’ve been trying, right? Maybe you need to try and make a spike for a certain mistwraith and that’s why Kandra spit out spikes that aren’t theirs.

Hemalurgy and the Compact are incompatible.

9 hours ago, whargolflorp said:

Hemalurgy requires great working knowledge of the bindpoints, and I think this is important in both the initial spiking and the final. 

I am afraid that is a misunderstanding. For the donor the spike invariably and fatally goes through the heart.

[HavingTheHasHoidAPurpose?]

Well, I like the theory that the spikes are from identity blanked individuals.

I have an idea that occludes medallions.

The Final Empire exerted massive resources into the prevention of the continuation of feruchemical bloodlines. So the final empire probably had very few feruchemists to work with? Wrong
The Final Empire also exerted massive amounts of resources into ensuring nobles did not spread allomancy to skaa (Especially through obligators) And yet hundreds of skaa mistings were born every year. Enough to keep up an army of inquisitors.

Thus I posit - TFE probably used inquisitors to seek out feruchemists among Terris house stewards. Allomantic bronze can detect feruchemical use, just as it can allomancy. Rashek would absolutely know this. Thus his inquisitors not only hunted allomancers, but rogue ferucemists, forcing them to blank their identity, and then spiked them with different metals for different kandra blessings. Only 200 dead ferucemists for 100 sets of blessings every 100 years is very plausible, especially including those found inside the breeding program.

This adds a spicy amount of sad horror, as the original kandra are being grafted with the stolen powers of their dead relatives.(Which would also aid in the binding process, as they are closer in relation, and thus have similar spiritwebs)
But what do I know, thats just my crackpot theory

[Stormtide_Leviathan]

21 hours ago, HavingTheHasHoidAPurpose? said:

Thus his inquisitors not only hunted allomancers, but rogue ferucemists, forcing them to blank their identity, and then spiked them with different metals for different kandra blessings

Spiking feruchemists for non-feruchemical traits just seems like a waste even if there are more feruchemists than one might think, I doubt kandra blessings are made from anything but normal humans

[handleinthedark]

I wonder if the real issue here is how a Kandra incorporates the spikes as compared to a Koloss. The Koloss have specific spiking requirements to give not only the added strength/fortituted from the spikes but also to warp their physical body. Kandra on the other hand seem to intrinsically take up the spikes to the precise location needed for sapience. Since they are basically just meatsacks you can't "spike" one in a particular spot but instead their anatomy reacts to place the spikes themselves. This may be part of the LR's design. 

It is also possible the level of investiture in the spikes is different. A more subtle amount of investiture load might give more mild blessings but also more mild effects on the soul of those spiked.

[City of Sauronicon]

Really interested theory, and it checks a lot of boxes imo. Between the OP and the response from HavingTheHasHoidAPurpose regarding the source of these blanked identities, I'm now wondering about mistwraiths. They seem like a horrible thing to create, with no real purpose but a place to draw new kandra from. Could they possibly be a byproduct of TLR'a process somehow? 

Edited October 12, 2022 by City of Sauronicon

[HavingTheHasHoidAPurpose?]

4 hours ago, City of Sauronicon said:

Really interested theory, and it checks a lot of boxes imo. Between the OP and the response from HavingTheHasHoidAPurpose regarding the source of these blanked identities, I'm now wondering about mistwraiths. They seem like a horrible thing to create, with no real purpose but a place to draw new kandra from. Could they possibly be a byproduct of TLR'a process somehow? 

I think it's presumed that there were many hundreds of feruchemists, all of which were turned into mistwraiths, but not all of whom were immediately given spikes. The mistwraiths found in era 1 may have been just immortal survivors from 1000 years ago, or they might have the ability to reproduce asexually

[City of Sauronicon]

57 minutes ago, HavingTheHasHoidAPurpose? said:

I think it's presumed that there were many hundreds of feruchemists, all of which were turned into mistwraiths, but not all of whom were immediately given spikes. The mistwraiths found in era 1 may have been just immortal survivors from 1000 years ago, or they might have the ability to reproduce asexually

What I mean is that TLR could have just killed them but instead he turned them into mistwraiths. Lots and lots, more than he ever would intend to spike as kandra. Why? You suggested that the feruchemists hunted down were used to make Kandra spikes. I'm wondering if they're connected somehow. 

To tie that back to the original post, do mistwraiths by default have Identity? Are we looking at the source of spikes maybe? Or maybe the byproduct? 

Edited October 12, 2022 by City of Sauronicon