Frustration

Fabrial Firearms.

54 posts in this topic

I think folks are mixing bits of the Basic Lashing and the Reverse Lashing, and the distinction as that I see is what is actually getting Invested. 

  • Basic Lashings let you redirect the direction of a Person or Object's Gravitational Pull (relative to it's original Down).
  • Reverse Lashings, which the WoR arcanum called a specialized Basic Lashing but also a Resonance of Gravitation and Adhesion, will Pull anything toward itself (with the caveat that it works a lot less on things actively touching the ground and thus more Connected to it).

In Other words, Gravitation can only Redirect the "Down" vector of the person/object Invested, relative to Objective Gravity, and the lashing needs to be moved/reapplied to change direction.  A combination of Adhesion and Gravitation is required (per Ars Arcanum) is required to create an actual gravity well that pull things toward the Invested object.

On 6/26/2022 at 1:29 AM, Frustration said:

You would need a bondsmith if that's even possible. Lashings just do a direction, not towards an object.

It might be possible that an Elscaller could help too (though a Bondsmith would need to Connect things), since Elscallers apparently have some sort of realmic tracking capability No details, but Jasnah mentions it wasnt managing to locate the Heralds when she thought it should.  

On 6/26/2022 at 1:29 AM, Frustration said:

I've given some thoughts to ammo, and imagine painrail bullets. When they come into contact with an aboject they touch duralumin to the gem. If you get hit and somehow live, it will almost instantly render you uncontious.

I like it!  A similar one that Diminishes emotions to cause a stupor might be effective as well (or perhaps useful to Counter Nergoul and the Thrill).

Honestly I wonder if other Surges can be directly affixed to a Gem the way Lightweavers can with Illusions, so they wouldnt need a true independent Fabrial.  Anything from Reverse Lashing grenades to ranged Division could be a hell of a tactical advantage.  

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I had a new ammo idea today.

Deathspren bullets, even if the shot itself doesn't kill, the fabrial should.

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3 hours ago, Frustration said:

I had a new ammo idea today.

Deathspren bullets, even if the shot itself doesn't kill, the fabrial should.

How would one attract Deathspren into a Fabrial?

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Just now, Nameless said:

How would one attract Deathspren into a Fabrial?

The same way you do a flamespren. Go near someone dying, and then draw the stormlight out of a gem. It might require a sighted Horneater, or a Singer, to find where they are at, but it should be possible.

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2 minutes ago, Frustration said:

The same way you do a flamespren. Go near someone dying, and then draw the stormlight out of a gem. It might require a sighted Horneater, or a Singer, to find where they are at, but it should be possible.

Hm. A bullet-sized gemstone might not be very effective. Heating fabrials require large gemstones to heat a room, and while deathspren bullets would obviously be better than normal bullets, even getting the Fabrial into the spiritweb via shooting someone might not allow it to have enough of an effect to warrant the cost. Might be good against people with healing powers though, if you could get big enough bullets.

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1 minute ago, Nameless said:

Hm. A bullet-sized gemstone might not be very effective. Heating fabrials require large gemstones to heat a room, and while deathspren bullets would obviously be better than normal bullets, even getting the Fabrial into the spiritweb via shooting someone might not allow it to have enough of an effect to warrant the cost. Might be good against people with healing powers though, if you could get big enough bullets.

Lol, I'm imagining Chasmfiend calliber elephant guns right now.

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Just now, Frustration said:

Lol, I'm imagining Chasmfiend calliber elephant guns right now.

Well, at that point the force of impact would probably shatter the gemstone holding the deathspren. So as a whole not a very practical use of Fabrials. However, it would be deevy, which is all that really matters in the grand scale of things.

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8 hours ago, Nameless said:

Well, at that point the force of impact would probably shatter the gemstone holding the deathspren. So as a whole not a very practical use of Fabrials. However, it would be deevy, which is all that really matters in the grand scale of things.

Put a shield of metal in front, the an opening in the sides for the gem to reach people. It may also make a shrill whistle which is all the more terrifying, and as Leonardo da Vinci believed, intimidation works better than destruction at subduing opposing militant forces.

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Wouldn’t busted gemstones be great also, it’ll get into the mussel and creates infection even with regrowth, (as we know the body grows around the items not pushing them out)

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10 minutes ago, Rg2045 said:

Wouldn’t busted gemstones be great also, it’ll get into the mussel and creates infection even with regrowth, (as we know the body grows around the items not pushing them out)

Would it? I don't think most people would view the shattered gemstone as part of themselves. @Frustration, is there a WoB on this?

If it doesn't though, there are probably better methods to this than gemstones, but at least you wouldn't have to enslave a spren. (The sibling thanks you)

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1 minute ago, Ta'veren Kaladin said:

Would it? I don't think most people would view the shattered gemstone as part of themselves. @Frustration, is there a WoB on this?

If it doesn't though, there are probably better methods to this than gemstones, but at least you wouldn't have to enslave a spren. (The sibling thanks you)

I’m using examples of healing in both stormlight and other cosmer works. Like when Sazed healed the rings in his body, shallan healing a bolt around her head. 

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Sazed wanted to heal those rings there, I believe, and I don't recall exactly what happened with Shallan, but it's Shallan, so she may have had reason to do things different.

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2 hours ago, Ta'veren Kaladin said:

Sazed wanted to heal those rings there, I believe, and I don't recall exactly what happened with Shallan, but it's Shallan, so she may have had reason to do things different.

Sazed just tapped gold, he wasn't thinking about that.

Same with Shallan.

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Posted (edited)

If we're thinking of designing or using fabrials, why are we limiting ourselves to traditional firearms?

With iron and steel fabrials being able to pull/push on things directly, we're not limited to imparting a force on a bullet indirectly by generating explosive force, we could have a magic railgun fabrial that, instead of using electromagnets to accelerate the bullet, directly pushes a piece of metal or bone or whatever.

With the discovery of anti-investiture, and Navani being able to create plates that with intent can generate anti-investiture without her own involvement, we could have a gun that takes the stormlight (or any of the lights, really) from a reservoir gem, splits it two ways, converts one stream to anti-investiture, and then recombines them both at the tail end of a specialized bullet to generate the explosive burst.

If investiture stays in the picture, and Rosharans remain the centerpiece shadesmar crossroads civlization, then we could also be using other means of achieving similar things. Why limit yourself to throwing a physical piece of metal or bone or stone at you? You could maybe do something more radical, and replicate the effects of Aon Daa in some form, firing bursts of pure explosive energy at things.

And then there's also a completely wildcard field that we have barely explored, and that's the halfway soulcasting that was used to create the sibling's forcefield, where you had air being only half-way soulcasted to glass. There could be a lot possible here, if we start halfway soulcasting between other essences, like metal being half-way soulcasted to fire or something.

Edited by asmodeus
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Yeah, directly accelerating bullets probably makes more sense than imitating a gunpowder gun with fabrial tech.

My one question is power density/output limits on fabrial tech. You can attract/repel things, but can you build a repeller that achieves bullet speeds?

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I imagine so, there's got to be some type of cage that behaves similar to duralumin/nicrosil allomancy.

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Hmm, that might work. (Though if fabrials are 10 based isn't it possible that only 10 of the allomantic metals work in cages?)

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Posted (edited)

Maybe only ten do work, but who's to say that one of them isn't a duralumin effect.

Also, in addition, you wouldn't have to worry about the fact that it uses up all the light, because you'd be replacing the sphere that powers the contraption every round fired.

Edited by Ta'veren Kaladin
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57 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said:

Hmm, that might work. (Though if fabrials are 10 based isn't it possible that only 10 of the allomantic metals work in cages?)

To me it seems that both the scadrian magics and fabrials work based on universal investiture properties of metal, so I'd be surprised if it was limited to only 10 of the metals arbitrarily. (Frankly, I'm not even sure the metallic arts are as 16-based as they seem. I'd be truly shocked if silver really does nothing, personally, since we know it does have magical properties. It's just probably something that hasn't been discovered yet

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Haven't people tried burning silver before? I imagine someone must have, seeing as silver isn't a harmful metal to invest. Besides, the rule of sixteen is so prominent, I find it hard to believe that it isn't the case all the metals' have been found. Plus, it pairs nicely with the 16 god metals.

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2 minutes ago, Ta'veren Kaladin said:

Haven't people tried burning silver before? I imagine someone must have, seeing as silver isn't a harmful metal to invest. Besides, the rule of sixteen is so prominent, I find it hard to believe that it isn't the case all the metals' have been found. Plus, it pairs nicely with the 16 god metals.

They have. My thought is that its effect is maybe something nonobvious? Maybe something to do with corrupted investiture? Or cognitive entities, which there aren't much around of on scadrial? (With a few very notable acceptions).

And there's not 16 god metals, not anymore. [Bands of Mourning]

Spoiler

Ettmetal exists now, which means there's 17.

 

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Just now, Stormtide_Leviathan said:

And there's not 16 god metals, not anymore. [Bands of Mourning]

  Reveal hidden contents

Ettmetal exists now, which means there's 17.

 

Yes, however,

Spoiler

Ettmetal is the resulting combination of sazed's merging of the shards, and is a alloy of Atium and Lerasium.

So I'm counting just the sixteen.

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Posted (edited)

Theres WoB that there really are 16 natural (non-god) metals in the Metallic Arts. So no allomantic silver.

I think there are more than 16 god metals anyway: each kind of Shardblade could be considered a different alloy of tanavastium(?) and koravarium(?). Now maybe only one of those will be Allomantically valid, but they all could be.

Connection work might be needed to use non Scadrian god metals in Allomancy though. Although (Era 2)

Spoiler

"Trellium" works in Hemalurgy so it's definitely possible.

Also (Mistborn)

Spoiler

Ettmetal/Harmonium is not an atium-lerasium alloy, but a metal of its own post combination of Shards.

 

Edited by cometaryorbit
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Posted (edited)

On 7/14/2022 at 4:31 PM, cometaryorbit said:

Hmm, that might work. (Though if fabrials are 10 based isn't it possible that only 10 of the allomantic metals work in cages?)

There are at least 22 metals that will work with fabrials.

I don't have access to the arcanum right now but I'll put the WoB in when I get the chance.

Edited by Frustration
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On 7/14/2022 at 5:52 PM, Ta'veren Kaladin said:

Yes, however,

  Reveal hidden contents

Ettmetal is the resulting combination of sazed's merging of the shards, and is a alloy of Atium and Lerasium.

So I'm counting just the sixteen.

Spoiler

Ettmetal actually isn’t just an alloy of Atium and Lerasium, it’s a completely new godmetal:

Quote

Questioner

If I were to alloy atium and lerasium, would I get harmonium? Or is harmonium different after the Shards combined?

Brandon Sanderson

It's different after the Shards combined.

Questioner

If I was to take harmonium and separate it out through distillation, would I get lerasium and atium or something that functions similarly?

Brandon Sanderson

No, you would-- It actually has become a different--

Questioner

Can't be split?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah. I mean, you could find a way, but you're not going to get it through normal, mechanical means.

Skyward Houston signing (Nov. 19, 2018)

 

 

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