Rethinking Dalinar

[+ShardlessVessel]

I'm one of the people who believe that Dalinar is a Dawnshard. Specifically, the one that binds. The voice in his head that tells him to UNITE THEM would be a parallel to the "voice" that Rysn hears telling her to CHANGE.

The problem with the theory of Dalinar as a Dawnshard is Sigzil. According to WOB, Sigzil's Torment is part of the reason why Rysn was warned not to bond a spren (the more important reason is that the Sleepless don't want anybody actually using the Dawnshard), implying that being Invested, or perhaps being bonded to a spren, can have unpleasant consequences. Does that mean Dalinar cannot be a Dawnshard, as he seems to lack a Torment?

It could be that it takes a long time to develop a Torment - Sigzil has likely been running from the Night Brigade for decades or centuries, and he seems to still be adjusting to his limitations, unlike Hoid, who can navigate it with ease (although he usually has enough control over any situation not to need to start a physical fight). It could also be that Dalinar has a different kind of Torment, one we haven't noticed yet.

Spoiler

8giraffe8

Other than Hoid and Sigzil, have we witnessed "on screen" a character actively under the effects of a Torment in your other published works so far?

Brandon Sanderson

...Yes, asterisk. I mean, you have, but you wouldn't be able to notice it yet.

Secret Project #4 Reveal and Livestream (March 29, 2022)

I thought about this when remembering the passage where Dalinar opens a Perpendicularity for the first time. Odium panics, screaming that "we" killed "you", which is rather ambiguous, as he could be referring to either Honor or Adonalsium, or even someone else entirely. In that scene, Dalinar hears the voice in his head telling him, many times, with mounting intensity, to UNITE THEM. Immediately before he UNITES the Realms, he says "I am Unity". My unhinged speculation is that Dalinar is subconsciously acknowledging his status as the Dawnshard That Binds. Odium senses the Command and mistakes it for Adonalsium itself, and panics.

There's a part of me that is actually hoping this theory is proven false, because it means Roshar isn't monopolizing half of the rarest artifacts in the Cosmere.

[Brgst13]

There is some reason to suspect that there are or were multiple Dawnshards on Roshar.  Honor tells Dalinar that "without the Dawnshards...".

[cometaryorbit]

13 minutes ago, Brgst13 said:

There is some reason to suspect that there are or were multiple Dawnshards on Roshar.  Honor tells Dalinar that "without the Dawnshards...".

Yes, and they're also a feature of Rosharan myth. I think the Rosharan System, at least, has or once had multiple Dawnshards (one or more might be on Ashyn, a Dawnshard was likely involved in its destruction).

--

I think Dalinar might be very likely to become the Unite Dawnshard ('known to bind') in the future, so through the timelessness of the Spiritual he *is* that Dawnshard while the Perpendicularity is open (but not otherwise, while he's in the Physical Realm's linear time).

--

EDIT: forgot that thus was Secret Project forum, not Stormlight. Sigzil apparently got Hoid's Dawnshard which is probably neither Change nor Unite/binding - the nonviolence/no meat aftereffect makes me think it's something like Protect or Persist or Remain - so I think at least 3 of the Dawnshards have been in the Rosharan System at some point.

Edited June 15, 2022 by cometaryorbit

[+ShardlessVessel]

2 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

I think Dalinar might be very likely to become the Unite Dawnshard ('known to bind') in the future

 

I think he is the Dawnshard-That-Binds since at least the start of the visions, and potentially since his visit to the Nightwatcher.

[cometaryorbit]

Hmm. But the visions say " without the Dawnshards" implying they are unavailable. So unless Dalinar got it in some way Honor doesn't foresee, I don't think he has one yet. Rysn's was likely the first "made available" n thousands of years imo.

[bmcclure7]

On 6/15/2022 at 1:48 PM, ShardlessVessel said:

I'm one of the people who believe that Dalinar is a Dawnshard. Specifically, the one that binds. The voice in his head that tells him to UNITE THEM would be a parallel to the "voice" that Rysn hears telling her to CHANGE.

The problem with the theory of Dalinar as a Dawnshard is Sigzil. According to WOB, Sigzil's Torment is part of the reason why Rysn was warned not to bond a spren (the more important reason is that the Sleepless don't want anybody actually using the Dawnshard), implying that being Invested, or perhaps being bonded to a spren, can have unpleasant consequences. Does that mean Dalinar cannot be a Dawnshard, as he seems to lack a Torment?

It could be that it takes a long time to develop a Torment - Sigzil has likely been running from the Night Brigade for decades or centuries, and he seems to still be adjusting to his limitations, unlike Hoid, who can navigate it with ease (although he usually has enough control over any situation not to need to start a physical fight). It could also be that Dalinar has a different kind of Torment, one we haven't noticed yet.

  Reveal hidden contents

8giraffe8

Other than Hoid and Sigzil, have we witnessed "on screen" a character actively under the effects of a Torment in your other published works so far?

Brandon Sanderson

...Yes, asterisk. I mean, you have, but you wouldn't be able to notice it yet.

Secret Project #4 Reveal and Livestream (March 29, 2022)

I thought about this when remembering the passage where Dalinar opens a Perpendicularity for the first time. Odium panics, screaming that "we" killed "you", which is rather ambiguous, as he could be referring to either Honor or Adonalsium, or even someone else entirely. In that scene, Dalinar hears the voice in his head telling him, many times, with mounting intensity, to UNITE THEM. Immediately before he UNITES the Realms, he says "I am Unity". My unhinged speculation is that Dalinar is subconsciously acknowledging his status as the Dawnshard That Binds. Odium senses the Command and mistakes it for Adonalsium itself, and panics.

There's a part of me that is actually hoping this theory is proven false, because it means Roshar isn't monopolizing half of the rarest artifacts in the Cosmere.

I have had this same theory for a while. I disagree that Dalinar lacks the torment I think we been seeing suttle sighs of the early stages of the torment

Edited July 16, 2022 by bmcclure7

[bmcclure7]

On 6/21/2022 at 4:38 PM, cometaryorbit said:

Hmm. But the visions say " without the Dawnshards" implying they are unavailable. So unless Dalinar got it in some way Honor doesn't foresee, I don't think he has one yet. Rysn's was likely the first "made available" n thousands of years imo.

I think he got it in the end words of radiance remember his dream.

[bmcclure7]

On 6/15/2022 at 4:25 PM, cometaryorbit said:

Yes, and they're also a feature of Rosharan myth. I think the Rosharan System, at least, has or once had multiple Dawnshards (one or more might be on Ashyn, a Dawnshard was likely involved in its destruction).

--

I think Dalinar might be very likely to become the Unite Dawnshard ('known to bind') in the future, so through the timelessness of the Spiritual he *is* that Dawnshard while the Perpendicularity is open (but not otherwise, while he's in the Physical Realm's linear time).

--

EDIT: forgot that thus was Secret Project forum, not Stormlight. Sigzil apparently got Hoid's Dawnshard which is probably neither Change nor Unite/binding - the nonviolence/no meat aftereffect makes me think it's something like Protect or Persist or Remain - so I think at least 3 of the Dawnshards have been in the Rosharan System at some point.

I think that all dawnshard but produce the torment. Remember the dawn shards were Comands the universe to create life. Seems to me that taking life would violate there intent.