Ruin and Preservation as complementary

[cometaryorbit]

Something that occurred to me... Ruin is basically entropy.  And while we think of entropy as 'disorder', a state of maximum entropy is also a state where change isn't possible since there is no energy gradient. Basically changelessness... sort of like stasis... sounds like Preservation taken to an extreme.

There's also the quote from Secret History " Ruin is more than death and destruction... It is peace with these things" explaining why Sazed could take it up.

Perhaps that's why these two Shards are so complementary. It bothered me at one point... if Preservation is stasis and Ruin is decay, why does their combination create? And wouldn't growth be a more appropriate opposite for decay than stasis?

But perhaps entropy and stasis are only what they become divorced from context. Working together perhaps they're more like change and persistence?

[Rg2045]

Idk sounds like something similar to cultivation 

[Returned]

The heat death or the universe might be a state which Preservation would like, but reaching it would require that everything which can change does change constantly and radically along the way, which Preservation would probably not love.

It sounds like an overinterpretation of the names of these particular Shards with these particular Vessels. We know from different sources that Shards aren't perfectly encapsulated by their common or self-selected names, that individual Shards can have different emphases and focus depending on who takes them up, and that they are all suffused with divine power that is more or less limitless. Certainly over time a Shard will influence its Vessel in ways that make it harder to use its power in certain ways, but the raw power to do so is there. As examples of that:

Spoiler

Rashek created plenty of new things (Koloss, Inquisitors, Kandra, and microbes at least) using Preservation's power alone.

Alendi couldn't kill while holding Preservation in Well of Ascension, but Vin could in Hero of Ages when she held it.

I do think that your interpretation of Ruin having "change" as a facet of its portfolio is a good observation. Entropy always increases, but making use of energy that is released in the process is mechanically how things happen. In that context it could make sense to think of Preservation as regulating change and allowing useful work to take place, keeping things from progressing to their lowest-energy states immediately.

[cometaryorbit]

On 6/15/2022 at 3:04 PM, Returned said:

The heat death or the universe might be a state which Preservation would like, but reaching it would require that everything which can change does change constantly and radically along the way, which Preservation would probably not love.

Absolutely, I just meant that it's interesting (to me) that if Ruin eventually really "won" then that would mean stasis and further change couldn't happen, which is a bit more Preservation - ie Ruin in isolation (without opposition) would be ultimately self-defeating.

On 6/15/2022 at 3:04 PM, Returned said:

 Certainly over time a Shard will influence its Vessel in ways that make it harder to use its power in certain ways, but the raw power to do so is there. As examples of that:

  Hide contents

Rashek created plenty of new things (Koloss, Inquisitors, Kandra, and microbes at least) using Preservation's power alone.

Alendi couldn't kill while holding Preservation in Well of Ascension, but Vin could in Hero of Ages when she held it.

.

Oh yeah, Shards are broader than that basic concept - especially once interpreted through a Vessel. (Although, to nitpick, Alendi never held the power: Rashek/TLR failed to kill Kwaan using the Well. But perhaps limits on the Well are different than the limits of a new Vessel of the actual Shard of Preservation?)

On 6/15/2022 at 3:04 PM, Returned said:

Entropy always increases, but making use of energy that is released in the process is mechanically how things happen. In that context it could make sense to think of Preservation as regulating change and allowing useful work to take place, keeping things from progressing to their lowest-energy states immediately.

Yeah, I think that might be part of how Harmony works.

[+ShardlessVessel]

9 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

Absolutely, I just meant that it's interesting (to me) that if Ruin eventually really "won" then that would mean stasis and further change couldn't happen, which is a bit more Preservation - ie Ruin in isolation (without opposition) would be ultimately self-defeating.

Which is probably why Rayse expected Ruin to implode.

[Returned]

On 6/18/2022 at 10:45 PM, cometaryorbit said:

(Although, to nitpick, Alendi never held the power: Rashek/TLR failed to kill Kwaan using the Well. But perhaps limits on the Well are different than the limits of a new Vessel of the actual Shard of Preservation?)

Whoops! I meant Leras-- that's no nitpick! I was referring to when Elend and Vin were at the Well, as presented in Secret History. Even with a knife at his belt and Kelsier's instruction, he just couldn't harm a person.

Anyways, I'm really interested in thinking of Harmony less as Harmony than as... Work. I wonder if that would be a better and more harmonious blending of the two Shards, though their nature may prevent them from ever being stable together when it's just the two of them. It does seem against Preservation's nature, however useful it might be to harness Ruin in that way.