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Onironte

Adonalsium it's alive?

Question

InMistborn Secret Story, Kelsier uses an artifact to ascend to Preservation, this changes a lot of what we knew about the shards, so: Could they change hands without the death of the shard's bearer?

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Yep! A vessel can voluntarily give up their Shard:

Quote

Questioner

Can holders of Shards give them up voluntarily? If so, what would happen?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, a Vessel for a Shard of Adonalsium can give up their power if they wish.

As for what would happen...well, there are some variables in there. Kind of like the variables in what happens to a bucket of water if you dump it out. Depends on where it falls, how strong the wind is, what the air is like.

Power dropped like this, if left alone, could end up Splintering and turning into something like spren/seons. It could become something more like the Stormfather--a large, self-aware entity. It could become something like the Dor or many of the Unmade--something proto-aware, but not truly an individual. There are other possibilities as well, depending on lots of factors. (Are sapient beings involved? what is being done with the power--is it concentrated in the Spiritual Realm as normal, or is it being pushed somewhere else?)

FAQFriday 2017 (June 9, 2017)

 

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Posted (edited)

 

Thank you very very much.
The answer to this question implies that Adonalsium was able to give up his Investiture, so the person who was Adonalsium may still be alive.
Or not?

 

I know this is going to sound like I'm rambling...
But here it is revealed that the Shattering process can be reversed...
This implies that Hoid or any other Cosmerite may be trying to become a new Adonalsium.
Or it may even be that the original Adonalsium bearer is still alive.
Hoid seems feasible to me as a candidate for Adonalsium:
 1.-He try to Invest his self as much as possible.
 2.-He try to invest his self with all possible forms of Investiture.
 3.-He doesn't want to be a Shard.

Despite everything, I don't think this is possible... Or am I wrong?

 

Edited by Onironte
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Posted (edited)

Hoid was present at the Shattering - and offered a Shard - which he declined. At the very least, that rules him out as having BEEN Adonalsium before the Shattering, and trying to reassemble himself into such (if that was one of the things you were putting forth?).

Who the "backup Vessel" was (and for which Shard) we do not yet know, but it'd be funny if that was one of Rayse's original reasons for hating on Hoid, the two of who apparently already had "specific beef"* even before the Shattering. Nobody likes being the second choice!

Per WoB, Hoid has been, but is not presently, a Dawnshard. This has affected him permanently, and is the reason he cannot physically harm another living being (including eating meat).

Hoid is pursuing access to all the various Shardic magical powers, but he also already possessed some powers even before the Shattering (e.g., the "original Yolen version of Lightweaving"), so that is not indicative of a requirement to "super-Ascend" to Adonalsium.

For Hoid (or any other "Cosmerite"**) to be trying to reassemble Adonalsium would require knowing or learning about what Adonalsium is/was, before the Shattering - not a lot of entities other than the Shards themselves can lay claim to that.

Frost is one such being: the dragon on Yolen, or "old reptile", that corresponds with Hoid in some of the chapter headings in Stormlight Archive. He has a history with Hoid that goes back before the Shattering, and from the tone of his correspondence with Hoid, knows or guesses what he is pursuing and why, while disapproving.

So, what is Hoid up to? Well, he writes to Frost, "You do not agree with my quest. I understand that, so much as it is possible to understand someone with whom I disagree so completely. ... You have accused me of arrogance in my quest. You have accused me of perpetuating my grudge against Rayse and Bavadin. Both accusations are true."

And Frost replied, "...I'm disappointed. Perpetually, as you put it. Is not the destruction we have wrought enough? The worlds you now tread bear the touch and design of Adonalsium. Our interference so far has brought nothing but pain. ... You tow chaos behind you like a corpse dragged by one leg through the snow. Please, hearken to my plea. Leave that place and join me in my oath of nonintervention. The cosmere itself may depend upon our restraint."

The way I read it, whatever Hoid is up to, it's not to "turn back the clock" on the Shattering so as to effectively undo it (with himself at the top, perhaps? hence the label of arrogance?), but more like continuing something he was already up to before the Shattering, the fact that two of his main targets had Ascended to Odium and Autonomy being a big obstacle.

My personal theory on what Frost is alluding to as "the destruction we have wrought" in that letter is that it's not the Shattering, but whatever happened on Ashyn. Hence the mention of "the worlds you now tread" (Rosharan system) that "bear the touch and design of Adonalsium" (Roshar, its Invested highstorms, and the native singers all predate the Shattering), along with the interference that involved a "grudge against Bavadin and Rayse" that "has brought nothing but pain".

And the arrogance is simply that Hoid continues to think he can "make things better" when all the other times, he's only made things worse (in Frost's opinion - and implied regret of past collusion).

 

----

*If I ever became a rapper or a pro wrestler, I would use the name "Specific Beef".

**The preferred term is not "Cosmerite" but "Cosmerenaut", or possibly, "Cosmerepolitan". I may or may not have just made that up, though.

Edited by robardin
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Nah, he's dead. 

Quote

imriel452 (Paraphrased)

I asked for "Info on why Adonalsium shattered".

Brandon Sanderson

Adonalsium Shattered because he was killed.

General Signed Books 2016 (Feb. 1, 2016)

So yeah theoretically Adonalsium could have been alive if the Shatterers had a different way to do things, but they didn't and just outright killed the poor guy.

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Posted (edited)

5 minutes ago, Invocation said:

Nah, he's dead. 

So yeah theoretically Adonalsium could have been alive if the Shatterers had a different way to do things, but they didn't and just outright killed the poor guy.

Yup. There is speculation going around that there could be a Cognitive Shadow of the deceased Adonlasium but that's been RAFO'd. We do know that Cognitive Shadows can finagle their way back into the Physical Realm but nothing concrete on this.

Quote

Rider of Storms

Did Adonalsium (or its Vessel) leave a Cognitive Shadow behind? If so, where is it?

Brandon Sanderson

RAFO.

Oathbringer release party (Nov. 13, 2017)

 

Edited by Duxredux
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Just now, Duxredux said:

Yup. There is speculation going around that there could be a Cognitive Shadow of the deceased Adonlasium but that's been RAFO'd. We do know that Cognitive Shadows can finagle their way back into the Physical Realm.

Personally, I'm pretty sure if there ever was a Cognitive Shadow of Adonalsium that didn't proceed immediately to the Beyond, the newformed Shards would have killed it the moment they got their power.

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