SymphonianBookworm

Does Anyone Ship Jasnahoid (Jasnah & Wit)?

28 posts in this topic

Hello everyone,

It has come to my attention that my opinion that Jasnah and Wit are perfect for each other is very...

Unpopular.

So, if there is anyone out there like me who actually ships the two, please, let me know, so I am not alone in my belief.

Hopefully I am not the only person who has read the Stormlight Archive who ships them.

(Please don't murder me for supporting the relationship, Jasnahoid dislikers.)

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dude I totally agree with you! Jasnahoid is amazing, and I stand by that

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1 hour ago, Kvothe the Bloodless said:

I dunno, I'm kinda on the boat that Jasnah is asexual, but I don't think your alone @SymphonianBookworm

I mean, that's confirmed via WoB and Jasnah's RoW PoV. Being asexual does not preclude romance, though, and it’s obvious that she finds Hoid (or at least his knowledge) attractive.

That said, the reasons that most people are not huge fans of the relationship probably fall under one or more of the following categories:

A. They ship Jasnah with someone else (usually Shallan),

B. They don't like how the relationship makes Jasnah/Hoid seem less superhuman (they prefer Jasnah as the strong independent woman atheist genius queen, and/or Hoid as the aloof trickster who refused godhood but is basically a god),

C. They feel the relationship is doomed (because neither is really willing to give anything up to be with the other, their desires are not well aligned and are likely to diverge over time).

D. They are weirded out about some aspect of the relationship (the insane age gap, the fact that Jasnah is not sexually attracted to Hoid, etc.)

I personally fall under category C, though I think if their relationship had been given more buildup/screentime I would be more on board with it (because tragic/doomed romances can make for good storytelling, so I don't think it's really a dealbreaker). It's just hard to be invested when it sort of came out of nowhere.

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They make a nice pair together, but it's probably not going to work. Jasnah is mostly assexual, she can engage in romance but isn't nearly as committed to intimacy as Hoid, so it's never going to be a complete couple. She's so far unable to experience pleasure in sex in the same way a non assexual person would, so as much as I enjoy to see them together I can't root for them 

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I think Brandon ships them. Just a feeling. There are many theories that jasnah or wit is using the other's feelings but i think the confusion comes from how wierdly written the relationship chapter was. 

10 hours ago, Kvothe the Bloodless said:

I dunno, I'm kinda on the boat that Jasnah is asexual, but I don't think your alone @SymphonianBookworm

Asexuality doesn't mean you can't have romantic relationships

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9 hours ago, Olmund said:

 

I personally fall under category C, though I think if their relationship had been given more buildup/screentime I would be more on board with it (because tragic/doomed romances can make for good storytelling, so I don't think it's really a dealbreaker). It's just hard to be invested when it sort of came out of nowhere.

It's interesting that you don't include it as one of the points but then still mention the lack of set-up for the relationship as one of your reasons. Because that's definitely the main reason for me (and obviously one of the main reasons for you).

Brandon sure could make them work together, but he didn't even try, he just made it up on the fly, and went from not even thinking about them being a pair to them suddenly being one from one book to the other:

Quote

Botanica

How long have you made up your mind to write Jasnah having relationship with Hoid? Was it settled at the very start?

Brandon Sanderson

I only started thinking Wit/Jasnah around the time I finished Oathbringer!

Miscellaneous 2021 (July 5, 2021)

That's not how you write relationships that people are on board with, Brandon!! Don't! >.<

I think it's not necessarily their personalities or that they don't fit. It's just bad writing.

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3 hours ago, Elegy said:

It's interesting that you don't include it as one of the points but then still mention the lack of set-up for the relationship as one of your reasons. Because that's definitely the main reason for me (and obviously one of the main reasons for you).

Brandon sure could make them work together, but he didn't even try, he just made it up on the fly, and went from not even thinking about them being a pair to them suddenly being one from one book to the other:

That's not how you write relationships that people are on board with, Brandon!! Don't! >.<

I think it's not necessarily their personalities or that they don't fit. It's just bad writing.

Honestly it makes sense, literally the only guy that will make jasnah feel inferior to, and they finally have a year “mostly” together to challenge each other intellectually. 

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9 minutes ago, Rg2045 said:

Honestly it makes sense, literally the only guy that will make jasnah feel inferior to, and they finally have a year “mostly” together to challenge each other intellectually. 

Possibly, but my point wasn't that it doesn't make sense. My point was that the reader has had no opportunity to feel some kind of bonding between them. They literally had one on-page dialogue together before becoming involved in a relationship. It's not about what's logical, it's about what's been set up, and this hasn't been set up.

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I would like to point out that Hoid is closer in age to Roshar than to Jasnah.

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Posted (edited)

I'm in the Olmund's C category. I think it's only bad writing if we were supposed to think it was a good relationship, and I'm not convinced that we were. I don't know many good relationships where the attribute one side acknowledges the most is the other's paranoia. That was a clue to me that there isn't much trust in their relationship, and trust to me at least is a core component of good relationships. 

The relationship was sprung on us, but I'm not sure if they themselves don't consider it a short term fling. No, a year may not feel short term to us, but Jasnah's lifespan is barely a blip on Hoid's timeline. Hoid despite his age apparently has the body of a man in his prime and still has sexual desires. Unless Jasnah becomes immortal, he will outlive her for a millenia if he keeps his track record. There's probably a limit to how attached he let's himself get with people. Jasnah probably knows this since she roughly knows how old Hoid is. So far this isn't Arwen and Aragorn, we just have a mortal trying to save her world and an immortal who will gladly see the mortal's world burn if it moves his agenda.

In deference to the thread, I think there are things that Hoid and Jasnah will have to acknowledge or adjust to make a good relationship. Trust would need to be there. Jasnah might have to become immortal for Hoid to seriously consider a long term relationship. They also need more than just a common enemy and low level common goals, they would need to really agree on doing what was best for Roshar and the Cosmere. 

Edited by Duxredux
clarity
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I don't know, but to me Hoid being in a relationship is just weird. With all the knowledge and experience he has Jasnah can not ever really be his equal, but at the same time he works under her as king's Wit. I don't know, Something about this dynamic is just kinda weird to me. The age difference also contributes.. 

Furthermore, Hoid is extremely unreliable and a bit of an asshole at times. I am against this ship xD 

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I like the ship! It did come out of no where, but I think they are cute. It also may mostly be that Im just so happy to get ace rep in my favorite books!

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In a story with as much Flashback as these have, Im going to withhold judgement on whether the flow of the relationship makes sense (in retrospect and with all the details, and all that) but I do think it makes sense for the character(s) as we know them now. 

If you can accept that romantic feelings can exist in an asexual person (totally a thing, btw) then Hoid would easily be a sort of idealize intellectual fantasy in many ways: absurdly clever, wise entirely beyond his "years", so intellectually acrobatic that he could remain stimulating indefinitely, and in possession of ALL THE SECRETS OF THE GODS AND UNIVERSE.  Also impossible to kill, and incapable of it in return, making him Safe in a way few Queen's Consorts could ever be.

Frankly, my biggest question is How Sincere is Hoid in all this.  Jasnah's perspective makes sense to me, and if Hoid's just normal lonely his does too.  But he has an Agenda, Always, and I so I really hope he's not working an angle...  

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I like it even though I think it's doomed. 

I said in another thread on this that I like it because it gives both of them someone on par with the other intellectually to engage with. That alone is stimulating in many respects and would be refreshing for Jasnah/Hoid after "all this time" relatively for each. 

I do think it's doomed. I don't think we're supposed to think it will last either as others have said.

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Posted (edited)

I'm confused about it. I would like to be it more as a relationship focused on scheming and plotting, exchanging knowledge and being on equal intellectual level without romantic interest on both side - but then maybe developed with their interactions. But this is all skipped and it's just weird for me to be suddenly as romantic serious relationship. They could make it work, as I don't look that much on age gap, and Jasnah could become ageless as there are many and options for it, one commonly used across cosmere. They goals are aligned, but methods definitely different, so there is a potential for conflict but also for development. But without that beginning it's just confusing for me. And to add up, it's taking a lot form mysterious side of Hoid, humanising him a bit too much a bit too early. 

Edited by alder24
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9 hours ago, Frustration said:

I would like to point out that Hoid is closer in age to Roshar than to Jasnah.

That has never meant anything since the dawn of fantasy. Once you are an adult, it a free for all(to try)

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1 minute ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

That has never meant anything since the dawn of fantasy. Once you are an adult, it a free for all(to try)

The fact that he could be one of Jasnah's ancestors should tell you that it's a big deal.

And I'm not just talking about his age either.

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1 minute ago, Frustration said:

And I'm not just talking about his age either.

??

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Just now, KaladinWorldsinger said:

??

She could be his great great great great(I'm not typing that all out) grandaughter.

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Just now, Frustration said:

She could be his great great great great(I'm not typing that all out) grandaughter.

Is this a theory or something? You said it didn't have to with his age?

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Just now, KaladinWorldsinger said:

Is this a theory or something? You said it didn't have to with his age?

I ment that he wasn't just old enough to be her ancestor, he might be her ancestor.

Not enough evidence for a theory, but I don't think Jasnah is the first woman to catch his eye in 10,000 years.

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Just now, Frustration said:

I ment that he wasn't just old enough to be her ancestor, he might be her ancestor.

Not enough evidence for a theory, but I don't think Jasnah is the first woman to catch his eye in 10,000 years.

Oh ok. Gotcha. But after 16 or more generations, you are barely related anymore, so that again hasn't stopped fantasy writers around the world. 

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Posted (edited)

1 minute ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

Oh ok. Gotcha. But after 16 or more generations, you are barely related anymore, so that again hasn't stopped fantasy writers around the world. 

I don't really care what writers do, that doesn't change the fact that it's weird.

Edited by Frustration
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Okay everyone-

So I am just going to put why I ship them.

I understand why you guys don't, but I think

1. Please do not ship Jasnah and Shallan please please no please I can't even- no. Just no. I do not like Shallan, and I think it would ruin Jasnah's character (and I am okay with same sex/gender ships, just to make that clear-) and I just can't see it.

2. Honestly, Jasnah has always been superior to everyone. She was the first to talk about Urithiru and Voidbringers, and she was ahead of it all. She's never really had an equal until she met Hoid. He has knowledge of the cosmere that she yearns for, and he, unlike many others, is willing to treat her as an equal even though she is a woman. I think he is the only one in the book who could actually understand her- she puts on a hard facade and is so intelligent and commanding, but she is actually able to feel pain and be insecure- and she, in turn, will listen to him more then others, question him- things not many can do- challenge his opinions, talk to him, and more importantly- she's really strong and focused. He can't distract her (like he tried to with the pen scene) and she is very intelligent.

I do love their insults, too. 

Anyway, Hoid was the first to welcome her back from Shadesmar and they actually had a really interesting philosophical talk about where honor was, and if it lived. I honestly don't care about the age gap- in fact, the age and the wisdom that comes with it is one of the reasons I think Jasnah likes Wit- and I think the fact that the relationship humannizes both of them is good. Both of them are mortal (well... maybe not, but...) and both of them have fears and pains and terrible things that have happened to them. I think that they can (and  I have said this before) understand what the other is like, and Jasnah could have the capability- her being Jasnah, of course- to become as smart as him. They could teach each other a lot of things.

I honestly hope that one of them isn't playing the other (I do admit it is a possibility) and I hope so much Jasnah and Wit become this worldhopping couple that travels the world and takes over the cosmere.

That would be so fun...

WELL, I AM SORRY THIS TOOK THIS LONG!

(My bullet number 2 I think got a little too long...)

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