What about another Shard - Unity?

[AFdooda]

Everyone listen to @cometaryorbit because he just said everything I did better.

If Honor in the hands of Dalinar could be Unity then what changed the Shard Honor? Shards only 'change names' when the power itself changes (Ruin + Preservation = Harmony, Cosmere calculations with AFdooda). So perhaps Dalinar is connected in some way, enough, to other Shards or sources of power to change Honor?

Or perhaps Dalinar would be able to alter the intent of Honor a little to make it focus on uniting things through oaths etc etc.

The idea that Dalinar is seeing into his future to perhaps him holding a Dawnshard seems super possible. While we have no other evidence before or after Oathbringer of Dalinar having future sight it seems perfectly possible. The problem is though that why did Odium say 'We killed you!' If Dalinar is talking about being a Unity Dawnshard then that implies that the Dawnshards, or perhaps the Weapon to kill Adonalsium they were once involved in was 'alive' in some way. If Dawnshards are some form of investiture then perhaps this Weapon could have gained a little sentience or something?...

Odium would be super terrified of any semblance of this intelligence returning as it could be intent on Shattering other Shards or equally powerful endeavours.

Overall, this raises many new questions!

[Brgst13]

Do we know Dalinar is not holding a Dawnshard now?  He experiences the warm glow that Rysn also describes at Urithiru when he is looking back on his childhood.  In addition, something (not the Stormfather) is yelling in his head to "unite them" right before he opens the Perpendicularity.  Lastly, there is a recent WoB that we have seen another Dawnshard on screen.  There aren't a lot of choices for that individual, and Dalinar fits the bill. 

[cometaryorbit]

56 minutes ago, AFdooda said:

The problem is though that why did Odium say 'We killed you!' If Dalinar is talking about being a Unity Dawnshard then that implies that the Dawnshards, or perhaps the Weapon to kill Adonalsium they were once involved in was 'alive' in some way

It's said that Rysn "is" the Dawnshard now, so "we" (Odium + his forces?) could have killed a previous Unity Dawnshard (holder).

56 minutes ago, AFdooda said:

While we have no other evidence before or after Oathbringer of Dalinar having future sight it seems perfectly possible.

I don't think future sight is a power of Dalinar, really. I don't think this is even exactly future sight-- I don't think Dalinar knows he's going to be a Dawnshard (or Vessel of reunited Honor/Unity or whatever). Just an effect of the timelessness of the Spiritual Realm.

56 minutes ago, AFdooda said:

Everyone listen to @cometaryorbit because he just said everything I did better.

If Honor in the hands of Dalinar could be Unity then what changed the Shard Honor? Shards only 'change names' when the power itself changes

Thank you!

I was thinking the process of reuniting the Shard from Splinters changed it... especially since it might not be 100% the same Shard, not all the Splinters might get reconnected and the Honor + Cultivation nature of so many spren might incorporate a bit of Cultivation Investiture.

Athough Rayse-Odium called himself Passion without actually changing the Shard, I suppose Dalinar-Honor could call himself Unity.

25 minutes ago, Brgst13 said:

Do we know Dalinar is not holding a Dawnshard now?

Not certainly... we know little about Dawnshards... but my objections are that this seems important enough to have come up in his flashbacks and that Honor talks as if the Dawnshards are unavailable so I would have thought Rysn's was the first to be "made available" in the modern era.

Also, would the Sleepless have been so concerned about Rysn maybe bonding a spren if there were already a Dawnshard Unchained Bondsmith out there?

25 minutes ago, Brgst13 said:

 Lastly, there is a recent WoB that we have seen another Dawnshard on screen. There aren't a lot of choices for that individual

I wonder if this isn't Hoid. We know he used to be one but his on screen appearances cover a lot of time... back in White Sand or Elantris he might have still been the Dawnshard.

[Frustration]

59 minutes ago, AFdooda said:

Shards only 'change names' when the power itself changes (Ruin + Preservation = Harmony, Cosmere calculations with AFdooda).

That's not true.

Spoiler

delvin

Is it possible that Honor's Shard is named Honor, because this is how the man who hold The Shard inerpreted it but not it's real name? In that case could The Shard change the name to something else that would better fit with personality of the new holder? As an example, could Honor become Unity if Dalinar were the holder?

Brandon Sanderson

The name Honor is bigger than Tanavast, though it's not impossible for shards to be interpreted differently by those who hold them, and perhaps other names be applied.

General Reddit 2020 (Dec. 1, 2020)  

 

[teknopathetic]

1 hour ago, Brgst13 said:

Do we know Dalinar is not holding a Dawnshard now?  He experiences the warm glow that Rysn also describes at Urithiru when he is looking back on his childhood.  In addition, something (not the Stormfather) is yelling in his head to "unite them" right before he opens the Perpendicularity.  Lastly, there is a recent WoB that we have seen another Dawnshard on screen.  There aren't a lot of choices for that individual, and Dalinar fits the bill. 

He also saw a weird glowing light when Jasnah was reading out The Way of Kings on the day of Gavilar's funeral. That and the childhood lights are still odd an unexplained moments. 

Maybe Rysn got hers from reading the words, but Dalinar got his from hearing the words. There is also a new WOB that we have seen someone else who has a Dawnshard. Shallan also so an unexplained glowing light, so maybe the Davars are an option too. 

Edited June 23, 2022 by teknopathetic

[Frustration]

25 minutes ago, teknopathetic said:

He also saw a weird glowing light when Jasnah was reading out The Way of Kings on the day of Gavilar's funeral. That and the childhood lights are still odd an unexplained moments.

That's God Beyond type stuff.

25 minutes ago, teknopathetic said:

Maybe Rysn got hers from reading the words, but Dalinar got his from hearing the words.

The Dawnshard was in the mural which Rysn was touching. So unless the Dawnshard happened to be in that specific copy of The Way of Kings, despite never being in Nohadon's hands, and can travel via soundwaves that's not the case.

27 minutes ago, teknopathetic said:

 There is also a new WOB that we have seen someone else who has a Dawnshard.

I'm of the opinion that's Hoid.

27 minutes ago, teknopathetic said:

Shallan also so an unexplained glowing light, so maybe the Davars are an option too. 

That's probably closer to the screams Dalinar, Szeth and Dilaf hear than a Dawnshard.

[Letryx13]

I posted a related theory a while back, except I think it speaks to Adonalsium being alive.  Odium's exclamation at Dalinar was specifically, "We killed you, we killed you!" I think the "we" are the ones who shattered Adolnasium, and that Odium is seeing him somehow.  According to Ishar, it's possible to see more clearly into the spiritual realm when an ideal is sworn, so it seems possible. At least, I think it does.

The only other explanation of what would horrify Odium is if he saw one of the shards, based on the information we currently have. And the only shard Dalinar has a direct connection to is Honor.  But as far as I know, Odium killed Tanavast by himself, without help from the other shards.  I suppose he could be referring to his underlings in the "we", but that doesn't feel right.  People in positions of power tend to speak of their accomplishments as their own; when people underneath them contribute, it's all a part of their own power.  But when equals accomplish such a task, then people tend to think of it as "we"

[+Child of Hodor]

11 hours ago, Letryx13 said:

I posted a related theory a while back, except I think it speaks to Adonalsium being alive.  Odium's exclamation at Dalinar was specifically, "We killed you, we killed you!" I think the "we" are the ones who shattered Adolnasium, and that Odium is seeing him somehow.  According to Ishar, it's possible to see more clearly into the spiritual realm when an ideal is sworn, so it seems possible. At least, I think it does.

 I think it is a hint at the Rayse the Vessel and Odium the Power not being on the same page. "No! No, we killed you, WE KILLED YOU" the all caps text is in the same style the Stormfather sometimes talks for whatever that's worth. I think both the Vessel and the Power are saying it independently. That's why it repeats.

In RoW we see a light within Rayse trying to escape when he meets with Moash and Dalinar. In the epigraphs Harmony theorizes that the vessel is not controlling the power very well and the power has developed a mind of it's own (RoW epigraphs 39 & 40). When Taravangian ascends the Power "speaks" to him telling him he's perfect. The Power had developed a mind of it's own from not being controlled well by Rayse. 

I think they are talking about killing Taravangian/Honor. Dalinar says he's Unity and Ascends briefly to form a perpendicularity. Dalinar got the idea of Unity from someone saying "Unite Them" to him over and over again. Tanavast says Unite Them in every Vision. Odium has seen the Visions. When he breaks into the Nohadan Vision and destroys it he say "what were you seeing?" then reforms the Vision and says "Ah this one, again.". He was lurking in the Visions before he decided to pop up in the one where Dalinar and he talk for the first time OB ch. 56.

All that's to say when Dalinar speaks of unity and forms a perpendicularity with Honor's power Rayse & Odium were both triggered, you might  say. Reminded of the guy/Shard that trapped them. They just lost their best chance at freedom this created a bigger schism between the Power and the Vessel. It starts showing up in the way they talk and 1 year later we physically see it with the light. 

[Letryx13]

1 hour ago, Child of Hodor said:

 I think it is a hint at the Rayse the Vessel and Odium the Power not being on the same page. "No! No, we killed you, WE KILLED YOU" the all caps text is in the same style the Stormfather sometimes talks for whatever that's worth. I think both the Vessel and the Power are saying it independently. That's why it repeats.

In RoW we see a light within Rayse trying to escape when he meets with Moash and Dalinar. In the epigraphs Harmony theorizes that the vessel is not controlling the power very well and the power has developed a mind of it's own (RoW epigraphs 39 & 40). When Taravangian ascends the Power "speaks" to him telling him he's perfect. The Power had developed a mind of it's own from not being controlled well by Rayse. 

I hadn't considered it being both the vessel and shard separately. Feels kind of like Venom from Spiderman using "we", but it's a valid theory.  I listen to the audio books, so I didn't know the text there matched the stormfather's speach, but I'd bet that actually does mean something.

My only issue with this idea is that Tanavast has been confirmed and re-confirmed to be dead.  Being triggered by Dalinar's refusal doesn't feel like a strong enough reason to need to reassure himself (or themselves) that Tanavast is dead. I suppose the perpendicularity could be granting Odium sight into the spiritual realm and seeing Tanavast in some way.  

I still like my Adonalsium is still alive theory, but this one makes sense too. It could be seen as a very subtle hint about the division between Rayse and the shard.

[cometaryorbit]

Tanavast is dead, but the Splinters of Honor are still there. Seeing a (possibly future) re-formed Honor wouldn't be less frightening because the Vessel is different- if anything, a new Vessel has more freedom to act.

[metal get in my tummy]

On 22/06/2022 at 9:52 AM, AFdooda said:

 

In Oathbringer we get the phrase 'We killed you!' after 'I am Unity'.

Both the words 'killed' and 'you' suggest a far more humanoid sentient consciousness, if not actually human or any other sentient Cosmere species.

 

Hmm, what if Unity is a translation of Adonalsium and they mean the same thing? And maybe Adonalsium was speaking through Dalinar, which freaked Rayse out, because it's supposed to be dead.

On 23/06/2022 at 3:11 PM, Brgst13 said:

Do we know Dalinar is not holding a Dawnshard now?  He experiences the warm glow that Rysn also describes at Urithiru when he is looking back on his childhood.  In addition, something (not the Stormfather) is yelling in his head to "unite them" right before he opens the Perpendicularity.  Lastly, there is a recent WoB that we have seen another Dawnshard on screen.  There aren't a lot of choices for that individual, and Dalinar fits the bill.

Maybe the voice Dalinar hears is somehow the voice of Adonalsium itself? As far as I know Dalinar doesn't know about Adonalsium so this could just be how he interprets it? Has anyone asked Brandon if Adonalsium is a Yolish word that's been adopted for use offworld? I think this could be a little misdirection from Brandon to get us to think Rayse is talking about Honor as of course Honor is the one telling Dalinar to unite them in the visions.

But might it really be Big A itself?

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 29, 2022 by metal get in my tummy

[cometaryorbit]

Hoid does mention the name Adonalsium to Dalinar in WoK, but Dalinar doesn't know what he's talking about.

[AFdooda]

Adonalsium derives from an Arabic word Adonai meaning 'my master', so a god, of some kind. This is a real world reference although Yolen seems to show the most parallels to actual Earth without being Earth. The Coppermind also explains that Adonalsium is an anagram of 'a mind, a soul' which implies a sentience as well as Adonalsium perhaps once being a normal person(?) but this may not be intentional.

This suggests that Adonalsium was more than a simple being of great investiture and so it seems safe to ascribe more radical and weird new abilities to it.

It does seem perfectly possible that Dalinar is receiving messages from someone not the Stormfather. Tanavast is confirmed to have a cognitive shadow, which survives as a part of the Stormfather, although Tanavast's independence is unknown. Perhaps he is trying to provide a last bit of motivation to Dalinar in his time of need at the end of Oathbringer?

Although it is also possible that Adonalsium has a cognitive shadow and seen as how Adonalsium may have a level of power we cannot comprehend then maybe it can influence a little. Pushes or pulls here and there to try to tip the balance. The confrontation between Dalinar and Odium was one that did decide the fate of Roshar, and quite possibly the Cosmere for Odium could have won the war there and potentially been freed.

So the question becomes: who was the voice saying 'unite them'? The big clue we have is Rayse/Odium's fear of the whole situation and that the voice did not seem to come from the Stormfather. This leaves a few options. Tanavast or Adonalsium as I explained or maybe a 'Unity' Dawnshard that Dalinar may have come into contact with/have a connection of some kind to (we know one other Dawnshard has been on page). The voice could have been another Shard for we know that Shards invested on worlds are capable of influencing and pressuring other worlds. All of which would have been very scary to Odium as they could set his plans back not in a mortal timescale but a godly one (Odium has made reference to Dalinar and the Coalition being unable to win because Odium is an immortal Shard with all the time in the world).

Bands of Mourning Spoiler:

Spoiler

Such as the red haze around Scadrial during the Second Era that I think is meant to be Autonomy/Trell.

Perhaps another Shard we know little about would be interested in seeing Honor reformed and Odium destroyed?

On the other hand, the voice may be Cultivation. Koravellium Avast (Cultivation) did have a relationship with Tanavast and so may have an interest in seeing his legacy of defending and caring for humanity on Roshar continued. Dalinar would seem like a good candidate for this and we already know Cultivation has made plans to support Dalinar in using his powers as a Bondsmith.

Spoilers from the Stormlight 5 prologue:

Spoiler

The Stormfather swore to not let any Kholins near the power of Honor after Gaviliar failed. So presumably somebody had a major role in seeing that the Stormfather changed his mind or Dalinar was the only/perfect candidate.

It seems possible Cultivation has had a far greater role in the fate of Roshar than previously known, although this is speculation. Afterall apart from drawing in certain people to the Nightwatcher in order to help them overcome hardship in the future (Dalinar and his memory loss, Lift and here Lifelight, I can't remember any others) Cultivation seems to have taken little interest in the affairs of Roshar so perhaps there are hidden plans of some kind.

This voice, whoever they are, obviously has an interest in the Splintered remnants of Honor and directly spoke to Dalinar. He was also highly investing himself, even to the point of temporarily Ascending. This suggests that Dalinar could have been connected to someone/thing. So perhaps it was not even fully Dalinar saying 'I am Unity' but instead a 'bleeding over' of the plans/intent of whoever is speaking to him. This is supported by the idea that it seems unlikely that Dalinar has any future sight and it is even more unlikely he has acquired a 'Unity' Dawnshard.

I'd never even stopped to think the voice and idea of 'Unity' may not originate with Dalinar! Dalinar's own power level is only roughly known but terrifying Odium seems to really push the boundaries. The idea that Dalinar has a 'sponsor' of some kind seems to fit quite well. This sponsor is putting pressure in just the right places to push Dalinar to develop his powers and come closer to potentially restoring the power of Honor and defeating Odium. It's this that makes me think Cultivation is a likely candidate or Tanavast's Cognitive Shadow.

Sorry about the ASTRONOMICALLY long message but you guys presented a lot of great (and crazy) ideas!

[cometaryorbit]

On 7/1/2022 at 3:59 AM, AFdooda said:

Adonalsium derives from an Arabic word Adonai meaning 'my master', so a god, of some kind.

Isn't Adonai Hebrew?

I figure Adonalsium is Adonai + Elysium (a Greek word for basically Paradise) in terms of real world linguistic roots.

[AFdooda]

@cometaryorbit

According to the Coppermind it's Arabic but I'm no linguist so I can't verify that.

Adonalsium's name is one that seems designed to imply an omnipotence and omnipresence.

I would say that, if Adonalsium ascended to their power, this name was given to them afterwards, perhaps by the people of Yolen.

Adonalsium could also refer to the Intent of the investiture. This was essentially a combination of potential Intents, the Shards, although they were melded to the point of being one being. The potential to become Shards was there, just like how we know that Adonalsium could have shattered in a different way.

Thus, I believe we can apply many of the same Shard rules to Adonalsium such as that the intent of Investiture can be changed and that names are important in understanding this Intent. The name Adonalsium strongly suggests a single, god being but following the other rules of Shards then it seems plausible that a creature ascended to become Adonalsium.

The fact that Adonalsium seemed to do little to defend itself from the efforts of those who sought to shatter the power suggests either a sentient being formed from Investiture, a sentient being that ascended to the power (in both cases deciding not to defend themselves) or a divine being so aloof from the world that it did not consider the threat until too late.

Something important to note is that no matter Adonalsium's origin the being originally came from outside the Cosmere (Adonalsium is described as having created the Cosmere, a cluster of stars in a wider galaxy)

The origin of Adonalsium seems like the kind of thing that Brandon would keep fairly ambiguous although I suppose Dragonsteel could look a little into it.

Understanding the nature of Adonalsium seems to me to be important to understanding how Shards function, change and develop.

[offer]

I can confirm that Adonai is in Hebrew and not in Arabic. It means "my lord"/"my master" and is a name or title for god.

[cometaryorbit]

Khriss at least believes Adonalsium didn't Ascend - in Secret History she says the sixteen killed him, becoming the first to Ascend.

Adonalsium probably did work in many ways like a super Shard, but imo the need for a Vessel is probably related to the Shattering. I'd think Adonalsium's mind was integral to his Investiture like a spren.

Adonalsium willingly allowing the Shattering seems quite plausible -- if reality worked the way Adonalsium wanted it to he could have stopped it -- and it fits the Iriali One and Many mythology.

[AFdooda]

If Adonalsium really is a divine being from outside the Cosmere then could there be others like it?

Spren form little independent entities that are aware of eachother, so do Shards, then why not divine god beings?

For all we know the Shattering was meant to happen. This event allowed for the creation of a massive range of different forms of Investiture.

Adonalsium's total lack of defence and the perfection in which it shattered suggests that there was more to the Shattering than a bunch of power hungry and righteous mortals seeking to do the impossible.

The Shattering advanced the Cosmere massively and if Adonalsium's Intent had to be anything then it would be to grow and expand the Cosmere.

Perhaps this divine being simply decided to be Shattered? Afterall, 'death' is probably a loose term for something this powerful.

This links in to the idea that Adonalsium could still be around in a vague way in the Shards and all their own Investiture.

[cometaryorbit]

The fact Shards have future sight suggests Adonalsium presumably did, so you would indeed think Adonalsium could have predicted and prevented the Shattering. The Iriali idea of the One and Many also suggests a voluntary Shattering.

However, it's described in pretty violent terms in Dawnshard and by Khriss in Secret History.

But perhaps the original Vessels didn't know that Adonalsium was aware of their plan beforehand.

EDIT: there's also a quote from the Terris Prophecies in Mistborn "that which has been sundered must again begin to find its whole". 'Begin' implies that the merger of Ruin and Preservation was only the start...

Edited July 28, 2022 by cometaryorbit

[Lego Mistborn]

2 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said:

The fact Shards have future sight suggests Adonalsium presumably did, so you would indeed think Adonalsium could have predicted and prevented the Shattering. The Iriali idea of the One and Many also suggests a voluntary Shattering.

However, it's described in pretty violent terms in Dawnshard and by Khriss in Secret History.

Perhaps, like Nightblood, the Dawnshards cloud future sight. Now, presumably Ado has better future sight than any of the shards, most likely very close to omniscient. But, if a weapon is powerful to destroy him, why should it not be strong enough to hide things from him?

I think this would fulfill everything we know about Ado so far. Also, if Ado wanted to die, then the plot of the Dragonsteel books will probably be very lame, or at least be fruitless when it turns out God let them kill him.

Spoiler

Also, maybe the Dawnshards created Ado. It would work, and it's poetic that what created this God also destroyed it. Just saying.

 

[cometaryorbit]

Just now, Ta'veren Kaladin said:

Perhaps, like Nightblood, the Dawnshards cloud future sight. Now, presumably Ado has better future sight than any of the shards, most likely very close to omniscient. But, if a weapon is powerful to destroy him, why should it not be strong enough to hide things from him?

I think this would fulfill everything we know about Ado so far. Also, if Ado wanted to die, then the plot of the Dragonsteel books will probably be very lame, or at least be fruitless when it turns out God let them kill him.

  Hide contents

Also, maybe the Dawnshards created Ado. It would work, and it's poetic that what created this God also destroyed it. Just saying.

 

Pretty sure that Adonalsium created the Dawnshards; isn't that stated in Dawnshard?

Where does it say Nightblood clouds future sight? Other future sight does, but Nightblood doesn't see the future?

I don't know if Dragonsteel is actually going to be about the Shattering, or a pre-Shattering story about Hoid.

[Lego Mistborn]

50 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said:

Pretty sure that Adonalsium created the Dawnshards; isn't that stated in Dawnshard?

Where does it say Nightblood clouds future sight? Other future sight does, but Nightblood doesn't see the future?

I don't know if Dragonsteel is actually going to be about the Shattering, or a pre-Shattering story about Hoid.

1. I have no clue, I don't remember reading that, and I don't own Dawnshards to go back and check.

Edit: there is this:

Quote

Chaos

 I asked Brandon to write in my book something about that opposing force.

Brandon Sanderson

There was a weapon created by the opposition of Adonalsium.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/226/#e5602

 

 

So, there is an opponent of Ado, presumably other than those who have become shards, and there is a weapon that was created. (or is it weapons... AKA Dawnshards)

2. I was thinking of Renarin, but I got it mixed up with Taravangian using Nightblood to kill Raise, and correlated the two too much. Still, Future sight can be clouded, I could write up a theory that does explain this being utilized by Hoid and crew for their plans.

3. I've definitely seen somewhere that Dragonsteel is about Hoid and the Shattering.

Edit: here it is:

Quote

Questioner

Dragonsteel, where in the universe is that going to take place?

Brandon Sanderson

It's actually first.

Questioner

Oh really? So it's like a prequel to everything.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, to the cosmere.

Questioner

So is it going to do the breaking of the Shards?

Brandon Sanderson

Yep.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/103/#e1024

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 28, 2022 by Ta'veren Kaladin

[Fezzik]

On 7/28/2022 at 5:19 PM, Ta'veren Kaladin said:

So, there is an opponent of Ado, presumably other than those who have become shards, and there is a weapon that was created. (or is it weapons... AKA Dawnshards)

You presume?

Spoiler

Eric
In Secret History we learn the 16 Shards that Shattered Adonalsium. Was that done [on behalf of the anti-Adonalsium force]?

Brandon Sanderson
You’re focusing too much on this idea of an anti-Adonalsium. It—the original question I believe that was asked me was “is there a force that is opposed to Adonalsium” and it left me a lot of wiggle room. In other words, the people who killed Adonalsium, you could say were a force, any person who opposed Adonalsium... What they were trying to get was a “devil” but to do that you must assume Adonalsium was a more Christian-style God, and I haven’t confirmed any of that.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/10/#e6551

Spoiler

dgenio8 (paraphrased)
If the force opposing Adonalsium is an entity like him/it (?), have we seen any magic that is related to this entity?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)
No. All the magic you see come from the shards of Adonalsium.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/30/#e2612

 

[cometaryorbit]

I assume, after Dawnshard (the novella), the weapon used to kill Adonalsium was some combination of Dawnshards (either with each other, with a particular "Vessel", or something like that).

[AFdooda]

If the Dawnshards really are what we all seem to think they are then things will only be revealed along with the reveal of the name of another Dawnshard.

We've got 'Change' but what about others?

Can they all be fitted together like the Shards can be to create a 'balanced' entity such as Adonalsium.

Harmony shows that even Investiture on the power level of Shards can be made to fit back together. In 'harmony' ha ha...

Why not Dawnshards too?

If the Dawnshards were reassembled then they would be more powerful than anything ever. After all they 'may' have been the device used to shatter Adonalsium.

No wonder so many groups either protect or hunt the Dawnshards.