What about another Shard - Unity?

[cometaryorbit]

I wonder if "I am Unity" is something from Dalinar's future acting through the timelessness of the Spiritual Realm while the Realms are united.

Dalinar doesn't hold a Dawnshard now, but perhaps he will in the future. The Command of the Dawnshard known to bind all creatures voidish or mortal could be "Unite". And perhaps- since holding a Dawnshard is referred to as "becoming" the Dawnshard - the noun form of that Command might be used as a name/title for the holder? Perhaps Rysn could now say "I am Change"?

[Fezzik]

On 5/17/2022 at 6:28 PM, cometaryorbit said:

the Dawnshard known to bind all creatures voidish or mortal

I know other people agree with you, but I have always interpreted that to mean the Dawnshards known to "bind to" any creature voidish or mortal, as in, this weapon can just as easily be picked up by the enemy, rather than interpreting it as a dawnshard of binding.

[AFdooda]

Does anyone here know the command of the Dawnshard on Roshar?

Is it, by any chance of fate anything to do with uniting?

 

[Fezzik]

2 hours ago, AFdooda said:

Does anyone here know the command of the Dawnshard on Roshar?

Is it, by any chance of fate anything to do with uniting?

 

The only one we know of is "change"

[AFdooda]

@cometaryorbit has made an excellent point, after rereading the post.

If taking up a Dawnshard has the same general principle as, say, ascending with a shard then the 'Unity' could not be a shard.

If, again if, there is a Dawnshard called Unity or Unite or some such then it would have to somehow be on or come to Roshar. Dalinar is seeing this in the future slightly.

This is backed up by the RAFO from previous comments, it would be a pretty massive story event if another Dawnshard appeared on Roshar, especially if more is ever done with Rysn and the Change Dawnshard.

Dalinar, being the bondsmith who has taken up the mantle of the unofficial leader of the KR and being bonded to the spren who in turn has taken up the mantle of Honor it seems like he would be the perfect person to take up a Dawnshard to do with Unity.

Going back to what I said earlier about how is Dalinar connected to each shard on Roshar it seems like taking up a unity Dawnshard would fulfil the wishes of the 'good' shards on the planet. Cultivation would end the war with Odium and Honor's legacy would survive.

How another Dawnshard would come to Roshar I don't know, how did the Change Dawnshard come to Roshar? on a side note.

[stonehand]

In Elantris, the parent religion of Shu Koreth and Shu Dereth was just some guy preaching a religious concept of unity, which his students (Koreth and Dereth, ofc) took elsewhere. The resulting religions they founded seem to preach Unity, with Shu Koreth preaching unity in love(Devotion) and Shu Dereth preaching unity in domination(Dominion). However, all magic on Sel is derived from the Dor, which is the remaining investiture of Devotion and Dominion just swirling around TOGETHER in the cognitive realm. Not sure how this would fit into your Unified Theory(see what I did there) but it caught my eye because I've been re-reading Elantris. The back 5 of SA are going to be a lot more cosmere-aware, it seems. could this Unity concept be what brings together the Rosharan and Selish storylines? Will Dalinar mantle the Dor?

Edit: I've so excited myself with this idea that I'm going to copy this comment into a new thread

Edited May 24, 2022 by stonehand

[Morningtide]

So I didn't read an the comments, so I'm sorry if this has already been said. 

I like the idea that Unity is important, but I don't think that it's just another shard

Spoiler

For one we already know all but one shard and I don't think the last one's Unity.  

I really like the idea that the Dawnshards were used to kill Adonalsium by removing Unity. 

I think that Unity is the 17th shard. Kind of. Apparently, when you take a piece of Adonalsium, it gains an intent and can kind if do a few things on it's own. (Preservation was able to choose Vin as a vessel while not correctly holding a vessel)

If Unity was broken off of Adonalsium by the Dawnshards, it is probably weak, drifting around the Cosmere, and without a vessel. However, like Preservation, it may be able to temporarily inhabit a vessel that fits it's specifications. Like Dalinar while he was fighting Odium. 

This could also explain some things like the presence of the in-world organization of the 17th Shard, who may have heard of this Shard's existence, and the perpendicularity on First of the Sun.

[cometaryorbit]

On 5/22/2022 at 10:49 AM, AFdooda said:

How another Dawnshard would come to Roshar I don't know, how did the Change Dawnshard come to Roshar? on a side note.

I think it's at least implied that Dawnshards plural were available to humans on Roshar in ancient times.

But Honor says that they are now "without the Dawnshards" so they must have been made inert or inaccessible in some way. One was clearly inert in the mural on Aimia... maybe one was stolen and taken to Braize? Or swiped by Hoid? Although I guess his Dawnshard time was on Yolen?

[AFdooda]

Looking at what @stonehand and @Morningtide have said there do seem to be connections across the cosmere.

Thinking about it now there are underlying themes to do with unity across many cosmere books.

Spoiler

Scadrial: Unification of Ruin and Preservation to form Harmony.

Sel: Unification of Devotion and Dominion into the Dor and through religion.

Roshar: Dalinar and his quest for unity.

This could be argued to suggest the presence of a 17th Shard, Unity, who was removed from Adonalsium, shattering it, and now seeks, as this is it's shardly purpose, to reunite all of the other 16, perhaps through any means necessary.

It would certainly be a major cosmere plotline that could apply to all planets. A hidden shard trying to recombine the others.

Such a thing would have massive effects across the cosmere.

Damn, and I thought the idea that there was a Unity shard had been disproved!  

[Some Random Spren]

2 minutes ago, AFdooda said:

This could be argued to suggest the presence of a 17th Shard, Unity, who was removed from Adonalsium, shattering it, and now seeks, as this is it's shardly purpose, to reunite all of the other 16, perhaps through any means necessary.

It would certainly be a major cosmere plotline that could apply to all planets. A hidden shard trying to recombine the others.

Such a thing would have massive effects across the cosmere.

believe it or not, i've seen that theory a couple of times on the forums and discord, so it's not that hard for me to think that this theory has merit

i have one small thing to add though: what if unity isn't a shard, but something else? parallel to the shards but not the same?

[EmulatonStromenkiin]

perhaps an underlying power like gravity is to us?

[Morningtide]

Now I'm really excited and need more cosmere books to prove or disprove this theory! 

Edited May 30, 2022 by Morningtide

[EmulatonStromenkiin]

expanding on previous statement: Unity is very similar to Connection. Could it be that Unity is a purer form of Connection?

[AFdooda]

- And thus perhaps it could be something that a Dawnshard could have control over!

This removes the need for this 'Unity concept' to have an intelligence which only muddied the waters.

If Unity was a great cosmere force and the Dawnshards were used to shatter Adonalsium by either destroying or severely weakening it that would explain why 'unity' is such a cosmere-wide theme. It would in fact be a fundamental force that is perhaps regenerating.

The only wonky bit then is the original source of this discussion (ha ha, why!):

Spoiler

Oathbringer's big battle and Dalinar saying 'I am Unity' and Odium going nooooo ('We destroyed you!)

Now this doesn't add up, how can Unity be a primeval force like Connection, and yet also embodied by someone such as Dalinar?

[EmulatonStromenkiin]

I can see Odium speaking from a viewpoint of being two seperate things, the intent and the mind, in reference to Honor, which is probably how it is usually taken(or possibly using the "royal we"). It could also be that Adonalsium was the personification of the concept of Unity, which was also an underlying force more accurately described as Connection, and so was referencing him being killed.

[AFdooda]

So that depends on what Adonalsium really was.

Was it a kind of super-Shard with a Vessel and everything, perhaps from the primordial abyss of the ancient cosmere or some such.

Or was it a kind of force, such as Connection, but one that commanded a great deal more power?

The Coppermind seems to suggest that Adonalsium was more like a Shard than a force but perhaps it made use of another force, Unity, in order to maintain it's vast power.

 

ADDED BIT:

But!!!! if Unity is a force like Connection or Identity then where is the metal for it from Scadrial and Feruchemy

Metals:

Spoiler

Duralumin stores Connection

Aluminium stores Identity

Nicrosil stores Investiture

Chromium stores Fortune

If we assume that these four metals store the four primary forces of the Cosmere (we'll get to Unity in a second) and there are sixteen Allomantic/Feruchemic/Hemalurgic metals which is significant because sixteen is the holy number, then where does Unity, if it is indeed a primeval force, fit in?

Thus, after thinking some more, I would say Adonalsium is NOT a force, Unity, but instead like a super shard of some kind, although what that entails I have no idea.

Edited June 13, 2022 by AFdooda
Thought of new things!

[Milk]

On 23/05/2022 at 0:49 AM, AFdooda said:

How another Dawnshard would come to Roshar I don't know, how did the Change Dawnshard come to Roshar? on a side note.

DS, ch. 19: “There are songs . . .” Cord said. “From long ago. Of when this . . . Command came through the pool.” It entered Roshar through Cultivation's Perpendicularity, apparently.

On 28/05/2022 at 6:41 AM, Morningtide said:

the perpendicularity on First of the Sun.

I don't think that's particularly relevant here; the perpendicularity is located within Patji, an avatar of Autonomy. Perhaps a more mysterious one is Yolen's?

[AFdooda]

2 hours ago, Milk said:

DS, ch. 19: “There are songs . . .” Cord said. “From long ago. Of when this . . . Command came through the pool.” It entered Roshar through Cultivation's Perpendicularity, apparently.

So if Dawnshards move have to move through perpendicularities in order to travel interplanetarily then it can be assumed that they are all located on Shardworlds with manifested perpendicularities.

So I think that includes:

Roshar, Scadrial and Sel

Presumably there is also a perpendicularity on Nalthis and somewhere in Autonomy's little empire.

It seems very likely then that there is a Dawnshard or two hidden away in the background somewhere on these planets.

I'd also be willing to bet that one of the many shady Worldhopper organisations are searching for them.

[EmulatonStromenkiin]

4 minutes ago, AFdooda said:

So if Dawnshards move have to move through perpendicularities in order to travel interplanetarily then it can be assumed that they are all located on Shardworlds with manifested perpendicularities.

So I think that includes:

Roshar, Scadrial and Sel

Presumably there is also a perpendicularity on Nalthis and somewhere in Autonomy's little empire.

It seems very likely then that there is a Dawnshard or two hidden away in the background somewhere on these planets.

I'd also be willing to bet that one of the many shady Worldhopper organisations are searching for them.

the one on Nalthis is where those special flowers grow. Patji is one of them in Autonomy's empire.

[AFdooda]

3 minutes ago, EmulatonStromenkiin said:

Patji is one of them in Autonomy's empire.

On a side note...

So at any moment a Worldhopper could spring forth from Patji's forehead or something?

Weird image.

 

[EmulatonStromenkiin]

3 hours ago, AFdooda said:

On a side note...

So at any moment a Worldhopper could spring forth from Patji's forehead or something?

Weird image.

 

patji is an island, and I believe in arcanum unbounded, kriss says that no one has survived using it b/c of the dangerous animals.

[Some Random Spren]

it should be noted that khriss is an in-world perspective though and could be wrong

[cometaryorbit]

Well there are only 4 Dawnshards so not every world with a perpendicularity can have one.

IMO there need to be at least 2 historically in the Rosharan System given various quotes about Dawnshards plural in Stormlight (though possibly taken elsewhere since, or currently hidden on Braize or Ashyn, etc.)

Scadrial seems to be created by paired Preservation + Ruin as kind of a "closed system" so I really doubt it had any, at least historically (off-world forces appear to now be intervening).

Also if the Dawnshards were used to Shatter Adonalsium they likely originally were on Yolen, and Hoid probably got his there. One or more might still be there.

[AFdooda]

MASSIVE POST ALERT!

So it seems likely the Dragonsteel series will reveal more on the Dawnshards.

The whole 'I am Unity' business and Odium's reaction seems to be intrinsically linked to the Shattering.

We simply do not know what happened, although we can assume.

Here's a new idea...

What if another name for the sentient mind that was Adonalsium was Unity, as if the being Adonalsium perhaps 'united' the Investiture of the Cosmere into one 'super-Shard'. This massive investiture gave him the powers of creation, like any all-powerful god.  We do also know that there are more 'raw' forms of magic in the Cosmere that are to do with Adonalsium not Shards. After all, there has to be some kind of story behind Adonalsium, either it was created along with the Cosmere already with all it's power or the being ascended in some way.

The Coppermind says that 'Adonalsium was indeed killed'

In Oathbringer we get the phrase 'We killed you!' after 'I am Unity'.

Both the words 'killed' and 'you' suggest a far more humanoid sentient consciousness, if not actually human or any other sentient Cosmere species.

This would match with general cosmere lore fairly well. The loss of the 'Vessel' of Adonalsium's power meant it was vulnerable and then splintered using whatever weapon was devised. The Dawnshards are the remnant although what effect they could have on a Shard I don't know. If they are the only remnant of the Weapon then perhaps they could be used to kill other Vessels and splinter Shards?

Beware massive Stormlight and Mistborn spoilers:

Spoiler

Although why it is Dalinar saying 'I am Unity' I don't know. Perhaps this could suggest some remnant of Adonalsium exists in all the Shards and that it is simply hidden behind the consciousness of the Vessels. After all Honor's power on Roshar is fully splintered and so maybe Dalinar accessed it in some way to 'know things'. Or perhaps Adonalsium does indeed have a cognitive shadow that is in some way still affecting the world like Kelsier?

I know this is a super far out there theory but I was looking into the Shattering again because I think that is where the resolution to this discussion can be found and this cropped up.

Edited June 22, 2022 by AFdooda
Added some new stuff to the theory.

[cometaryorbit]

I tend to think that Adonalsium probably didn't have a Vessel, though my only real basis for that is the HoA Epigraphs where Sazed/Harmony seems to imply that the power needing a mind to control it is somehow odd... which makes me think it's due to the incomplete state of each Shard in isolation.

But Khriss says Adonalsium was "killed" which implies it was in some sense alive (though she also says she doesn't know whether it was "a force or a being").

So possibly the implication is that Adonalsium was more like a spren in that the power and the being/personality are essentially the same thing, vs. the power being held by an originally separate and still in some sense distinct (and separable) mind as Shards and Returned.

--

I personally doubt Unity is a title of Adonalsium. There are two possibilities I prefer:

- (based on the similarity of Dalinar's temporary Ascension to Vin's and Rashek's, also involving a Perpendicularity) Unity is what Honor would be if held/reunited by Dalinar, and Dalinar held a large part of it momentarily (or perhaps even the entire to-be-reunited Shard, through the timelessness of the Spiritual)

- Unity is the (holder of the) "Dawnshard, known to bind" and Dalinar is accessing his most likely future self holding that Dawnshard through the timelessness of the Spiritual. Even though the first idea is a closer parallel to what we've seen before, I kind of prefer this since Odium looked small to him and I can totally see (Given that the Dawnshards destroyed Adonalsium) a Dawnshard held by the Unchained Bondsmith of the post Recreance boosted Stormfather being even more powerful/dangerous than a Shard.

Apparently an Unchained Bondsmith and a Dawnshard held by a regular Radiant are both potentially world scale threats. Combining the two...