Bonding cognitive shadows (again)

[melaan enjoyer]

Hello all I am back with another question related to bonding cognitive shadows.

This one is different though, because I was just interested, does anyone have any cognitive shadows you think would have very interesting consequences if bonded? For example if someone were to bond Kelsier, who would you want it to be? On that note, who would you reaaallllly not want it to be?

[CognitiveShadow]

On 5/5/2022 at 1:19 AM, melaan enjoyer said:

Hello all I am back with another question related to bonding cognitive shadows.

This one is different though, because I was just interested, does anyone have any cognitive shadows you think would have very interesting consequences if bonded? For example if someone were to bond Kelsier, who would you want it to be? On that note, who would you reaaallllly not want it to be?

Hang on- are you talking about Kelsier bonding a spren.... or are you talking about Kelsier being the 'spren' part of a bond with someone else? Cause it's cool to think about Kelsier bonding a spren like @Rune was describing. But what happens if someone is able to bond Kelsier (given that he is a spren-like being, a cognitive shadow that has been around for ages, becoming more like spren each day...)? I don't know what that looks like or if it's even possible but I like to think that it would be pretty awesome. Maybe an unchained bondsmith like Dalinar could make it happen somehow? 

Maybe his mistborn abilities show through in that person, and his "survive" mandate / ideal would pass along some abilities that feel a little more in line with 'knights radiant'-type abilities...?

To answer your question, though - I think Kelsier bonded Szeth that could be pretty cool. Imagine Szeth trying to get both Nightblood and Kelsier's voices out of his head, telling him to destroy evil and kill the rich people. Adolin would be interesting as well (Adolin would help temper some of Kelsier's more murderous tendencies... but then again Kelsier would likely encourage some of Adolin's murderous tendencies). I would definitely not want it to be Hoid but I think Hoid wouldn't really want that either... Who else would be a terrible option?

[CognitiveShadow]

7 hours ago, melaan enjoyer said:

I think someone like Jasnah would be interesting because that could create opportunities for the kind of situation where she and Kelsier have very different ideas about going around things but have to get the other to cooperate for anything to get done.

yeah that's a good call haha Jasnah would be really interesting to see too! Hard to guess who would actually give in more often than the other. I'm sure it would vary by situation but they are both pretty stubborn about their own course of action. 

Do we know if it is possible for a cognitive shadow to bond with someone like a spren? any WoB's on this? Also, would it be of any benefit to Kelsier to allow a bond like that to happen? Would he have a choice? 

[melaan enjoyer]

7 minutes ago, CognitiveShadow said:

any WoB's on this?

in hindsight i really should have left this in the original post but in my defence this is my first time seeing the wob, i’ve just heard the 17th shard guys talk about it on the podcast a lot lol

 

but yeah!! that’s a good question— what would kelsier get out of it? is it like an sp3 thing 

Spoiler

with design and hoid off on some planet that is definitely not roshar 

or is it a power thing?

[CognitiveShadow]

2 minutes ago, melaan enjoyer said:

in hindsight i really should have left this in the original post but in my defence this is my first time seeing the wob, i’ve just heard the 17th shard guys talk about it on the podcast a lot lol

Daaaaang yeah so Brando Sando straight up said it can happen. I guess I could have searched for the wob too lol

So I would imagine that Kelsier could be down for this if it meant giving him Connection to someone from a different place- particularly someone who is capable of worldhopping since that could open up his search for more secrets without the whole avatar thing. That’s probably the biggest positive.

And for the other person it would be likely that they get some pretty sweet abilities and access to investiture, and a big ol’ dose of the will to survive haha

[CognitiveShadow]

4 hours ago, Onironte said:

 

If kelsier formed a bond with a spren, im sure he would be a tintspren (Elsecaller).

That’s fair, I could see it @Onironte, but we are talking about Kelsier being the “Spren” in this bond- someone would bond him had their Spren… pretty out there and super unlikely but supposedly possible somehow haha any thoughts on who would be a good person to bond him and what might happen??

[CognitiveShadow]

12 hours ago, ReinyxGrey said:

Lopen.

 

Chaos Crew.

I love it. I don’t think Kelsier would know what to do with that situation.

[CognitiveShadow]

1 hour ago, Onironte said:

Since we're on the sprens, could a Sleepless bond to one? And a Kandra?
Why?

That’s a good question - no idea to be honest, but I don’t know why not? Maybe it’d be trickier for a Kandra being from Scadrial and whatnot, but a sleepless… could be interesting!

[CognitiveShadow]

1 hour ago, Onironte said:

All of this begs a question: What would happen if someone bonded with the Lord Ruler Cognitive Shadow? And to Shadows (of the Shadows for Silence).
Or maybe the bearer of a Dawnshard.

It's a fun idea, curious what all the qualifiers are for someone to be able to be bonded. Like does it have to be a specific type of cognitive shadow? Is there a point in the development of a cognitive shadow where they hit a specific degree of similarity to spren, and only at that degree could this type of bond take place? How does having a physical body play into it? would Kelsier have to disconnect from the physical body in order to form the bond? I could see him being willing to do it as a way to build connection to another realm - maybe he bonds with Mraize or other Rosharan Ghost Bloods as a first step to getting off of Scadrial?

[CognitiveShadow]

2 minutes ago, Onironte said:

Did Kelsier come out of Scadrian?

I thought that what appears in the prologue of Stormlight Five was a seón.

He hasn't left Scadrial yet I don't think. He has to use things like the seon as an avatar to visit other places. But if there was a way for him to bond with someone on Roshar, maybe that would give him enough Connection to go there and leave Scadrial?

[CognitiveShadow]

Just now, Onironte said:

Or perhaps Investing in local magic, which leaves two possible solutions:
 1.-Burn a pearl of Lerasium-Tanavastium
 2.-Forming a radiant union.

Yeah, I mean he/ the Ghost Bloods are trying to find ways to move stormlight off of Roshar - could be that if he can fine a way to invest himself with stormlight he will be less Connected to Scadrial slightly and able to leave, even if only to Roshar

[Rune]

What exactly do you mean by bond? A Nahel bond? If so, then I would say one that allowed them (like Kelsier) to do something they couldn’t before. Windrunner power wouldn’t be much use as he is particularly skilled at iron and steel which can effectively do similar things. Dustbringers seem dangerous to me as they don’t seem hard to become as their oaths focus on self mastery and as we know, Honor doesn’t impose a morality on the oaths as he is dead and so Kelsier would only need to become a more mastered self to gain these powers.

[Stormblessed0421]

I have a theory that Kelsier used Spook’s body to somehow Hemalugically bond himself back to the Physical Realm, but I don’t know what the ramifications of that would be.

[Trusk'our]

On 5/8/2022 at 9:30 AM, Stormblessed0421 said:

I have a theory that Kelsier used Spook’s body to somehow Hemalugically bond himself back to the Physical Realm, but I don’t know what the ramifications of that would be.

Sorry to rain on your parade, but we actually have confirmation that Kelsier isn't possessing Spook.

Quote

Questioner

In Bands of Mourning, we learned that the Sovereign, who they confused as being the Lord Ruler, came after the Catacendre. [He] was their god, was their king and god. And then Kelsier looking for a string. Is the spike somehow connecting Kelsier's soul to Spook's body.

Brandon Sanderson

No, good question. It is connecting his soul with his body, his current body, but it is not Spook's body. That's a great theory.

I would venture to guess that the spike is made of duralumin, and was driven through his Cognitive Aspect by someone else (likely Spook) and into his physical remains. Although, all that was left was a skeleton, so there is likely a step or two I'm missing. Perhaps a perpendicularity was involved somehow, bringing his physical remains and Cognitive and Spiritual Aspects together.

[melaan enjoyer]

On 21/05/2022 at 0:43 AM, CognitiveShadow said:

To answer your question, though - I think Kelsier bonded Szeth that could be pretty cool. Imagine Szeth trying to get both Nightblood and Kelsier's voices out of his head, telling him to destroy evil and kill the rich people. Adolin would be interesting as well (Adolin would help temper some of Kelsier's more murderous tendencies... but then again Kelsier would likely encourage some of Adolin's murderous tendencies). I would definitely not want it to be Hoid but I think Hoid wouldn't really want that either... Who else would be a terrible option?

ohh man Kelsier bonded Szeth sounds like such a recipe for disaster YES. Hoid sounds fun also because he's more cosmere aware than Kelsier. On that note, I think someone like Jasnah would be interesting because that could create opportunities for the kind of situation where she and Kelsier have very different ideas about going around things but have to get the other to cooperate for anything to get done. 

I think Adolin is such an interesting suggestion because he's not as wise or as tempered as Jasnah, but still far less dangerous than someone like Szeth. I feel like with Adolin, he's definitely in a position where he could be influenced (corrupted) by Kelsier and his ideals, but could also possibly change Kelsier (ideally for the better) in a way the others may not necessarily be able to.

 

thanks for your response!

[Onironte]

 

If kelsier formed a bond with a spren, im sure he would be a tintspren (Elsecaller).

[ReinyxGrey]

Lopen.

 

Chaos Crew.

[Onironte]

Since we're on the sprens, could a Sleepless bond to one? And a Kandra?
Why?

[Onironte]

Thanks.

[Onironte]

All of this begs a question: What would happen if someone bonded with the Lord Ruler Cognitive Shadow? And to Shadows (of the Shadows for Silence).
Or maybe the bearer of a Dawnshard.

Edited June 7, 2022 by Onironte

[Onironte]

Did Kelsier come out of Scadrian?

I thought that what appears in the prologue of Stormlight Five was a seón.

Edited June 7, 2022 by Onironte

[Onironte]

Or perhaps Investing in local magic, which leaves two possible solutions:
 1.-Burn a pearl of Lerasium-Tanavastium
 2.-Forming a Radiant union.

Edited June 7, 2022 by Onironte

[CognitiveShadow]

Accidentally posted the same thing twice.

Edited June 7, 2022 by CognitiveShadow