Cocoa

Shardblade Screams (discuss)

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So we know that Radiants are overwhelmed by the screams of the deadeye spren when touching a dead shardblade, and according to RoW Fused experience the same or something similar that makes it difficult for most of them to use dead shards. What I'm curious about is, do you think this is because they're both surgebinders, or is it simply a matter of being invested?  Heralds, I expect, would also hear the screams, but what about other invested entities? Would a metalborn hear the screams? A Returned? What about someone who is not Returned but in possession of a lot of Breath? Elantrians? Would a Forger be invested enough to her the screams?

What are your thoughts?

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This is a good question, though I am unsure of the answer.

Something that's interesting to me about this happens during the disadvantaged duel scene in Words of Radiance. I think Kaladin touches one of the duelist's Shardblades, and because of his bond to Sylphrena, hears it scream. However, not only did he hear the scream, but the Shardbearer who had bonded the Shardblade also heard the screams, but only when Kaladin touched it.

How do you think that fits into all this?

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I think it has to do with a special relationship with Soren rather than with investment. Since we only know radiants, who are bonded with spren and fused, who are a spren inhabiting a singer's body.

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We know that those that are bonded with spren are more invested than others sense their spiritual web itself is merged with the sprens. 
maybe that’s the difference sense zahel doesn’t seem to hear screams when he uses a blade in practice 

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On 5/3/2022 at 7:07 PM, Ta'veren Kaladin said:

I think it has to do with a special relationship with Spren rather than with investment. Since we only know Radiants, who are bonded with spren and fused, who are a spren inhabiting a singer's body.

This. I know a negative does not equal proof, but this WoB points to the Spren relationship/Nahel Bond (rather than simply being invested):

Quote

Questioner

With Adolin you say there that he feels a connection to his sword. And all the other Shardbearers, when they touch a Shardblade they get the screaming in their ears. Does that mean he’s not going to be a Radiant.

Brandon Sanderson

It means he's- number one he's not on the path to being a Radiant, that's the main thing that means.

So, if Adolin didn't hear screams because he was not on the path to a Nahel Bond; that implies it is the presence of a Nahel Bond that allows/causes somebody to hear the Deadeye screams.

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Posted (edited)

I've never been good with theorizing on Spiritweb stuff, but here's some knowledge that we have that may or may not be relevant.

  1. Deadeyes are not just constantly screaming in the Cognitive Realm. Maya, Testament, and Deadeyes bonded to someone not currently in Shadesmar are fairly docile it seems.
  2. Maya screams and stretches towards Adolin when he attempts to summon her in Shadesmar.
  3. It seems that Pattern and Syl are aware when Shallan and Kaladin attempt to summon them in Shadesmar (I think) but it doesn't seem to cause them discomfort. 
  4. Deadeyes in Shadesmar will try to move towards wherever their blade is currently located in the physical realm. I think they vanish if they get summoned as a blade.
  5. A summoned dead Blade will not be audible to a regular Shardbearer.
  6. A summoned dead Blade will scream into the mind of a Radiant when touched (and presumably a Fused).
  7. Dead Blades require 10-ish heartbeats to be attuned to the human summoning the blade. Adolin and Maya pare that down to I think 7 heartbeats.
  8. A Radiant touching a dead Blade can allow a non-Radiant to hear the screaming.
  9. Zahel can use a Blade, and it seems really unlikely that he would handle a magic sword that screamed in his mind. 

First question, why are the Spren screaming in the first place? My guess is that getting summoned or otherwise forced into the Physical Realm against your will, particularly without the presence of the Nahel Bond is painful, and that may be the cause of the screaming. I think the Stormfather groaned and was pained after Dalinar summoned him to work an Oathgate. Moving to how Radiants hear the screams, I'm pretty sure the Nahel Bond gives Radiants a connection (I don't know a good word that isn't full of Cosmere stipulations) to the Cognitive Realm, considering they can see and communicate with their Spren. My top guess is that ability to hear and see slightly into the Cognitive Realm is what lets Radiants hear the screams of a Blade forced into Physical Realm. If that's not it, maybe it's that the Nahel bond is similar enough to the hacked version (the one that allows Shardbearers to summon and dismiss their Blade) that it sets up an echo or resonance or something?  No idea how that other Shardbearer heard it, maybe Kaladin strengthened the "signal" and that allowed the other person to hear it through their bond? I'm stretching at this point.

So to answer @Cocoa, my guess is that anyone that can see into the Cognitive realm would be able to hear the screams of a dead Blade. 

Edited by Duxredux
clarity
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On 5/5/2022 at 2:52 PM, Duxredux said:

Zahel can use a Blade, and it seems really unlikely that he would handle a magic sword that screamed in his mind. 

He hasn't been shown to be bonded to one, and only seems to hold other people's Shardblades. And he does have experience with screaming magic swords, so he could actually be uniquely suited to handling a Shardblade that screams in his head.

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17 hours ago, Zapata said:

He hasn't been shown to be bonded to one, and only seems to hold other people's Shardblades. And he does have experience with screaming magic swords, so he could actually be uniquely suited to handling a Shardblade that screams in his head.

Maybe? I just don't see Zahel doing this voluntarily day in and day out for training purposes. If he needed to for a battle or war he might be better equipped to handle that, but I just don't see grumpy Zahel putting up with consistent screaming in his head if he could avoid it. If Nightblood was screaming, things were serious enough to warrant drawing him and he probably agreed that some evil needed to be destroyed.

In this case, the question is if he would need to be bonded to the Blade to hear the screams or if he would only hear them if he and the owner touched the Blade simultaneously. Alternately, would Kaladin hear the screaming of the spren only if the one bonded to the Blade was touching it also? I'd guess that he would hear the screaming regardless if he touched a dead Blade.

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5 hours ago, Duxredux said:

In this case, the question is if he would need to be bonded to the Blade to hear the screams or if he would only hear them if he and the owner touched the Blade simultaneously. Alternately, would Kaladin hear the screaming of the spren only if the one bonded to the Blade was touching it also? I'd guess that he would hear the screaming regardless if he touched a dead Blade.

I think we can say that the bonded owner does not need to be touching the Blade. When Dalinar brings Oathbringer to Ialai in Oathbringer, he still hears the screams even though he is the only one touching it and Oathbringer is not bonded to anyone at that time. (That was a weird sentence to type, with all those Oathbringers!).

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