Mid-Range Game 58 - To Kill a Skyeel

[StrikerEZ]

Just now, Matrim's Dice said:

Hah, some semblance of a mindmeld, I like it. You're just more committal than me  

Yeah, I was just also thrown off by the way that JNV is typing and stuff. Especially because I remember from their earlier games some really complex and smart things coming from them.

[Mat]

Just now, StrikerEZ said:

Yeah, I was just also thrown off by the way that JNV is typing and stuff. Especially because I remember from their earlier games some really complex and smart things coming from them.

I mean, the turn did start like two hours ago :P. That's the typical JNV dialect except for when they're an Albatross.

[Stick.]

20 minutes ago, JNV said:

hoesntly pMs didnt go so well someone cough Archer cough started a ton of group pms and turns out they are a no go so haha

I know Archer just admitted to have made them with everyone but I’m assuming each individual only received one group PM (grouped based on their positions in the player list) so I find it strange that you phrase it like that. “A ton of PMs”. Almost seems like you were aware of his strategy already. Did you and Archer discuss this in PMs or is this TMI from a doc? 
JNV

Edit:

To be clear, I’m village-reading Archer at the moment. What I’m getting at is that e!JNV would’ve known everyone received the group PMs since the elims likely talked about them in their doc. 

Edited May 26, 2022 by _Stick_

[Archer]

Highlights from the rules:
-Need a majority to cause an execution
-Elim doc is closed in the Day
-No skyeels tonight. They're death that rains from the sky on even Nights.
Roles:
-Former Detective (v): delayed action coinshot [If you call a shot you can be a conf villager]
-Skyeel Enthusiast (e): Traps player so visitors to them die. [Protecting ally probably, bearing in mind that it makes their target non NKable]
-Humane Skyeel Capturer (e): Likely protects ally from skyeel attacks
-Politician: Pulls a vote to match theirs
-Hired Thug: PM blocker
-Field Exterminator: There's three. My guess is one is evil because GMs like to do that with popular roles. You protect a house from skyeel attacks. You're immune to the attacks so protect someone else.
-Apprentice Exterminator: One time immunity to skyeels, can protect houses from attack as well. I'm not entirely sure why this is different from the above role.
*
Discussion prompts:
-How aggressively should the Detective attack if they exist?
-Are we assuming 3 elims?
-Ways to exploit lack of elim communication?
-You're all planning on voting right. Please do

19 minutes ago, The Unknown Novel said:

Not consensus, 50% need to be voting period. So if 6 people vote, whoever has the most votes dies. 

Oooooooo

Oh

huh

18 minutes ago, JNV said:

Hi hi hi hoesntly pMs didnt go so well someone cough Archer cough started a ton of group pms and turns out they are a no go so haha then I got like one PM but I didnt have time to reply before slep time honestly dont really know whats going on though plus side rules say no evl doc in daytime I guess theyre vampires or something 

Um so yeah at leats 6 people gotta vote so Archer for hopping on someone that hasnt shown up shame on you and your horse

Not true, they were in my (legal) PM

What do you have against my horse :(. 

[StrikerEZ]

1 minute ago, Matrim's Dice said:

I mean, the turn did start like two hours ago :P. That's the typical JNV dialect except for when they're an Albatross.

Smh, 2 hours is plenty of time to make a read off of a single post from a player.

[Mat]

Just now, _Stick_ said:

I know Archer just admitted to have made them with everyone but I’m assuming each individual only received one group PM (grouped based on their positions in the player list) so I find it strange that you phrase it like that. “A ton of PMs”. Almost seems like you were aware of his strategy already. Did you and Archer discuss this in PMs or is this TMI from a doc? 
JNV

I knew that he made multiple as well; Archer didn't say it outright I don't think but it wasn't hard to guess from context clues.

[---]

huh i didn't realize the elim doc is closed during the day

probably effects distro somewhat, either with more elims or with stronger roles.

[Stick.]

Um okay I got ninjad by three people but I edited my previous post everyone look at it 

[Mat]

Was gonna edit this in but there's a post now so

Just now, StrikerEZ said:

Smh, 2 hours is plenty of time to make a read off of a single post from a player.

I mean that you can't blame JNV for not having 'really complex and smart things' yet

[StrikerEZ]

1 minute ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Was gonna edit this in but there's a post now so

I mean that you can't blame JNV for not having 'really complex and smart things' yet

I meant more that his manner of speaking feels off from what I remember of him

[---]

Lack of Elim communication isn't really exploitable imo, but imo it does mean that the more active we all are and decisive, the harder it will be for them to manipulate thread how they want it, because they can't really coordinate anything during the day.

Us also being able to have PMs open at night is another buff to village because where most times night would be time for us to reflect on our own and their time to talk, it means that not only will we still be able to talk to eachother at night, but as long as everyone stays active in PMs as well, they will have to keep up with both PMing the majority of players and trying to use that time to scheme in the doc.

[Stick.]

6 minutes ago, Archer said:

If you call a shot you can be a conf villager

Why can’t elims get away with the same? 
 

9 minutes ago, Archer said:

-Ways to exploit lack of elim communication?

All their planning would have to take place during the night, so they won’t be able to make any spontaneous moves that are risky during the day time. Perhaps we should be looking at reactions to certain players being put under pressure. 

[---]

So TL;DR, Archer

 - Activity in thread and PMs: look for people at night who are active in thread but much less active in PMs.
 - Openness with reads: look for people who aren't open and consistent (to a degree, completely 180ing on reads can be towny in the right context) with their progressions/reads.

I disagree with stick that they won't make risky moves, I think that if you look through old Elim docs (recent games) you're not going to find a whole lot of planning during the day anyways.

I do think there will be little to no bussing in this game, because without the doc to communicate about that I assume people will generally stay away.

[Stick.]

Also Mat/JNV E/E possible

Edit:

Quote

I disagree with stick that they won't make risky moves, I think that if you look through old Elim docs (recent games) you're not going to find a whole lot of planning during the day anyways.

They could definitely make risky moves - I just don’t think they’ll make spontaneous risky moves as they won’t have a way to talk it over with each other. 

Edited May 26, 2022 by _Stick_

[Devotary of Spontaneity]

42 minutes ago, Archer said:

Literally everyone. Sorry about that. Can I get free village cred for flagrantly breaking the rules when e!me would have been talking in the elim doc with the GM and probably avoided that violation?

-How aggressively should the Detective attack if they exist?
-Are we assuming 3 elims?
-Ways to exploit lack of elim communication?

Your hypothetical teammates and the GM might not have been around to stop you, since it was in the first hour and a half and you managed to get to the last three players on the list without anyone telling you not to make group PMs. Certainly doesn't mean you are evil though. 

As much as any Coinshot, tempered slightly by the fact that they're the only one who could conceivably be killed by skyeels. Since nothing blocks the detective kill, it may be worth it for there to be foreknowledge of who they're likely to target so village field exterminators can visit those houses. If a skyeel enthusiast exists though they'd target people not likely to be detective'd so field exterminators might also be needed for that.

Most likely, and I'd assume at least one of them can protect the killer from dying to skyeels.

They can't discuss who they'd like dead during the day, so they'll either have less control or be more obvious about gunning for a particular player.

JNV commonly does run-on sentences so this is not atypical for them.

[StrikerEZ]

Archer because I think they might have been pushing a little too hard on them being a villager for doing the PM thing. I know from experience that being an elim doesn't have an effect on whether or not you thoroughly read the rules when a game starts.

[---]

Striker 

[JNV]

39 minutes ago, StrikerEZ said:

Yeah, I was just also thrown off by the way that JNV is typing and stuff. Especially because I remember from their earlier games some really complex and smart things coming from them.

Justh ad finals week so kinda brain dead honestly did get good marks though so thats good and if you look at that evil game I had I thin kI was more clever over there cause I actually had thoughts in my head not just fuzz and bits of spanish that I dont actually know but studied all night for

36 minutes ago, Archer said:

Discussion prompts:
-How aggressively should the Detective attack if they exist?
-Are we assuming 3 elims?
-Ways to exploit lack of elim communication?
-You're all planning on voting right. Please do

What do you have against my horse :(. 

Theres 12 pop so probably 3 so 9 3 so 4 cycles of life owrst case and if private eye goes pop pop once 3 twice 3 you get the pattern also skyeels grrr hard to calculate but given that maybe fewer roles in game or theres just a ton of roles and risk of everone dying soon gah thisll be a short game so my thought is medium prob no rnadom fire but dont be reluctnat cause its long odds already  all the mass murder and death going on  kinda makes it hard on you

No world with 4 and better to assume 3 than 2 plan for worse hope for better yeah not beholden to the world but parachute size based on max wieght not min weight obviously what if you have to parachute down with a stolen horse thats gotta be arrested for crimes against the state 

The only real way to do that is to somehow get a pure village PM group to plot murder in broad daylight and swing the vote or actually get a PM group with more good than evil and get everyone to agree that 'yes this is the best option' and they woldnt be able to refuse wihtout seeming weird so possibly catch links but then again refusing the gruop doesnt see mto weird cause the obvious of lots of murderesr about ya know 

Your hrose is wanted for murder in three states plus a sovergin territory surrender the horse now and you wont be harmed there is a parachute provided for evacuation of the horse to a nearby county jail where it will await trial

Also cool that Im a topic of discussion Im never a topic of discussion so I guess ths is a first gold star for me sheriffs badge so I can arrrest Archers horse

[xinoehp512]

1 hour ago, Illwei said:

I do think there will be little to no bussing in this game, because without the doc to communicate about that I assume people will generally stay away.

I don't think that bussing is off the table- it would be pretty easy to establish a pseudocode to allow for limited communication during the day, not to mention that they could just plan the bus at night.

[Archer]

1 hour ago, Illwei said:

huh i didn't realize the elim doc is closed during the day

Light village for being surprised by what I assume was posted in the elim doc

1 hour ago, _Stick_ said:

I know Archer just admitted to have made them with everyone but I’m assuming each individual only received one group PM (grouped based on their positions in the player list) so I find it strange that you phrase it like that. “A ton of PMs”. Almost seems like you were aware of his strategy already. Did you and Archer discuss this in PMs or is this TMI from a doc? 

The weird part is I made three. Which isn't a ton. I don't think JNV and I have talked 1 on 1 yet in PMs

1 hour ago, StrikerEZ said:

I meant more that his manner of speaking feels off from what I remember of him

So as I told you and someone else I think, I felt that JNV talking stream of consciousness was reminiscent of their strategy as an elim in the LG with house docs. Very rambly, which they were in their group PM post. I was waiting for a larger sample size before discussing it today, although you best me to the punch. (Only two options are e!you looking to build a wagon you knew I'd support or v!you plagiarizing :P.) I need to check their anon posts to see if Nat's assessment is correct, so I'll circle back to this. 

54 minutes ago, _Stick_ said:

Why can’t elims get away with the same? 

An NK will almost always happen. So if they call it and only one kill happens, reasonable assumption is they're a liar, not that no NK happened. If two kills do occur, they'll also be exposed because then the person they told can ask if anyone submitted a Detective kill, otherwise they're conf good. 

51 minutes ago, Illwei said:

I do think there will be little to no bussing in this game, because without the doc to communicate about that I assume people will generally stay away.

Standing orders can exist, but it'll be clumsy if it occurs 

Although I like Xino's idea about having a trigger word that signals time to bus. 

49 minutes ago, _Stick_ said:

Also Mat/JNV E/E possible

Well now that I've said bussing is hard, I realize my initial thought that this is too obvious seems invalid

35 minutes ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

Your hypothetical teammates and the GM might not have been around to stop you, since it was in the first hour and a half and you managed to get to the last three players on the list without anyone telling you not to make group PMs. Certainly doesn't mean you are evil though. 

This reads like you carefully avoiding the appearance of TMI when, having seen I was working down the list, it wouldn't be a hard assumption to think I finished the job. 

Devo has also said JNV was like this as a villager, so I'll take that as fact

[EmulatonStromenkiin]

Still don't know what's going on. Also, how do you use field exterminator powers? and how does visiting people work?

Edited May 27, 2022 by EmulatonStromenkiin

[Mat]

A trigger word seems catchable and therefore risky for the elims, but it depends what the word is. I think it’s more likely that they just established a baseline on when/if you bus (or didn’t discuss it at all) but I agree it’s probably going to be rarer this game, at least early on.

Laughing at the e/e JNV/me read, because it’s totally viable assuming you elim read me and JNV.

I like Illwei’s vote, for me there was the initial mind meld with Striker, but it was for different reasons, and their reasons since then haven’t been super great imo.

[---]

Why were the interactions with me on posts that didn't have anything in them vs the two or three posts that had things

[The Unknown Ajah]

...My brain just melted.

Edit: Disregard, Shard messed up.

Edited May 27, 2022 by The Unknown Novel

[Mat]

1 hour ago, EmulatonStromenkiin said:

Still don't know what's going on. Also, how does visiting people work?

Just so you know, you can't edit out information in posts :P. So what was there originally has to come back, sorry  I did see it anyway.

Editing for grammar or additions is fine, just not subraction or changing actual info.