82 posts in this topic

7 hours ago, EmulatonStromenkiin said:

I believe in one holy, catholic and apostolic Church.   ---   not underlined portion

Catholic in this context is using it's literal definition:

including a wide variety of things; all-embracing.

So that phrase basically means one holy, universal, and apostolic Church

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17 minutes ago, Nameless said:

Catholic in this context is using it's literal definition:

including a wide variety of things; all-embracing.

So that phrase basically means one holy, universal, and apostolic Church

ah, thank you. then yes.

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11 hours ago, EmulatonStromenkiin said:

Lets see:

I believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.   ---   yes

I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father;
through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,   ---   yes? wording is kinda thick

and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.   ---   no, not at all, at least I don't think so.

For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,
he suffered death and was buried,
and rose again on the third day
in accordance with the Scriptures.
He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead
and his kingdom will have no end.   ---   yes, essentially. 

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son,
who with the Father and the Son is worshipped and glorified,
who has spoken through the prophets.   ---   kinda. problems with wording again.

I believe in one holy, catholic and apostolic Church.   ---   not underlined portion
I confess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins.  ---   not gonna say more on this one until I have more info, b/c wording again.
and I look for to the resurrection of the dead.   ---   yes
and the life of the world to come. Amen.   ---   yes.

note that all responses are from my opinion and interpretation of the creed, results may vary.

No virgin birth by the Holy Spirit? Unless you disagree with Rune that the Bible is the Word of God, how would you interpret this \/ ?

Spoiler

 

 18Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily.

20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,

23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

 

 

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18 hours ago, Chaos said:

Secondly, I think it is very easy to argue that though religion can certainly create fulfillment and happiness for sure, people themselves have done horrendous things for religion and gods. Tremendous hate, judgment, and bloodshed throughout history. I think there are many, many reasons why people would want nothing to do with any religion for these reasons. There are a lot of reasons why people would think this is an extremely dangerous thing.

I can understand this argument... it's actually pretty compelling in some ways... but I would say that while lots of horrendous things have been done in the name of religion, all horrendous things that have ever been done were done by humans. Saying that humans have done lots of horrendous things in the name of religion means (to me) that: 1) Humans have the capacity to do horrendous things (and they will, with or without the involvement of religion), and 2) Religion is extremely powerful. To many people, it matters more than anything else in their lives. Which means, unfortunately, one of the easiest ways to get people to agree to horrible things is to tell them 'God approves! He told me so in a vision!'

A lot of horrible things have been done in the name of religion... but a lot of wonderful things too. And neither of those things are proof of whether believers are correct. 

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38 minutes ago, Luckspren said:

No virgin birth by the Holy Spirit? Unless you disagree with Rune that the Bible is the Word of God, how would you interpret this \/ ?

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 18Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily.

20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,

23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

 

 

sorry, read that wrong. Yes to that. I need to be better at reading comprehension.

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On 7/4/2022 at 2:49 PM, EmulatonStromenkiin said:

sorry, read that wrong. Yes to that. I need to be better at reading comprehension.

Yeah, I get you. It can be pretty difficult to understand some things without rereading many times.  I agree with pretty much everything @EmulatonStromenkiin has said on this. I would like to note that we believe that the Godhead-Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost-are three distinct, separate Beings which is contrary to the idea of the Trinity I believe. The Father and the Son also have resurrected bodies of Flesh and Bone.

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Posted (edited)

also

On 7/4/2022 at 5:21 PM, Luckspren said:

I can understand this argument... it's actually pretty compelling in some ways... but I would say that while lots of horrendous things have been done in the name of religion, all horrendous things that have ever been done were done by humans. Saying that humans have done lots of horrendous things in the name of religion means (to me) that: 1) Humans have the capacity to do horrendous things (and they will, with or without the involvement of religion), and 2) Religion is extremely powerful. To many people, it matters more than anything else in their lives. Which means, unfortunately, one of the easiest ways to get people to agree to horrible things is to tell them 'God approves! He told me so in a vision!'

A lot of horrible things have been done in the name of religion... but a lot of wonderful things too. And neither of those things are proof of whether believers are correct. 

I think one of the most significant quotes on this topic is from C.S Lewis'

 

“Three hundred years ago people in England were putting witches to death. Was that what you call the 'Rule of Human Nature or Right Conduct?’ But surely the reason we do not execute witches is that we do not believe there are such things. If we did—if we really thought that there were people going about who had sold themselves to the devil and received supernatural powers from him in return and were using these powers to kill their neighbours or drive them mad or bring bad weather—surely we would all agree that if anyone deserved the death penalty, then these filthy quislings did? There is no difference of moral principle here: the difference is simply about matter of fact. It may be a great advance in knowledge not to believe in witches: there is no moral advance in not executing them when you do not think they are there. You would not call a man humane for ceasing to set mousetraps if he did so because he believed there were no mice in the house.”  -  Mere Christianity, C.S Lewis

Edited by HOID WANTS INSTANT NOODLES
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