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1 hour ago, Coral Swan said:

I'm switching from Albatross to Falcon. I think opening lots of group PMs is a way to look village without directly contributing to discussion. 

I'm the first and the last person to always talk about how Effort Clears are bad and shouldn't be used, but in this case the effort falcon put in doesn't make sense to do for an Elim. The Reward is way too low for the time put in.

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The potential reward is higher for a scum than for a townie who has to worry about the amount of information they could expose to a kandra if their network is fruitful. For the record, I think having ninety ongoing conversations to monitor is a good excuse to not be particularly active in any one of them, which undercuts Falcon's stated purpose for doing this. 

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15 hours ago, Chartreuse Penguin said:

I’m assuming this is in joking reference to me not voting Wyrm? Dunno what else it could be xD

You didn't retract your vote on Weasel before placing one on Scorp. I'm assuming it's meant to be on Scorp, but rules did say to retract in green :)

14 hours ago, Amber Vulture said:

Question for you - why Scorp?

It's D1, there weren't too many posts, and his were the ones I felt were the most suspicious.

Edit:

Wow! That is a LOT of Falcon spam!!!

Edited by Oxblood Beagle
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public class Responses {
    public static void main(String[] args) {
        Scanner s = new Scanner(System.in);
        s.useDelimiter("<//div");
        while(s.hasNext()) {
           Post p = new Post(s.next());
           System.out.println(generateResponse(p)); 
        }
        System.out.println("SHUTTING DOWN..."
        Operator.shutDown();
    }
}

On 4/24/2022 at 3:33 PM, Amber Vulture said:

I agree with Penguin that Scorp not checking the playerlist is odd - why ping the player and ask if the account is currently active instead of simply checking the playerlist? It's a redundant question - not like the account will respond if they aren't playing. This comes off as feigning nonchalance. Conversely, I also agree with Scorp that Penguin voting for Weasel after expressing suspicion on Scorp is weird. 

Is there a strong reason you voted Scorpion over Penguin here when you listed both suspicions on what seems like equal footing?

14 hours ago, Indigo Weasel said:

Since identity vagueness makes impersonations easier, the case for non anonymity is the strongest. Scum might try to reason their way towards undermining acceptance of that conclusion, but an impulsive preference for anonymity puts Penguin in a pointlessly vulnerable position and misses an opportunity to persuade people to join them in it. My understanding of this use of anonymous accounts is that it facilitates the game mechanics in a distinct way from the tournaments that use them which have different motivations more in line with Penguin's suggestions. 

Are you arguing for ceasing anonymity? I would argue that with the closeness of this community, anonymity actually protects people from impersonation. Minor tells are made more difficult to identify and use.

2 hours ago, Coral Swan said:

I'm switching from Albatross to Falcon. I think opening lots of group PMs is a way to look village without directly contributing to discussion. 

2 hours ago, Chartreuse Penguin said:

I think it’s NAI if anything… opening PMs isn’t something that typically gets a village read so there wouldn’t be an obvious gain for e!Falcon to take up this endeavor. I don’t see why a villager would be kayana enough to do it either, which is why I think it’s NAI.

Apologies for my pop-in-with-random-comments playstyle; IRL circumstances make longer and more defined posts harder than usual (good IRL circumstances though :P) but I have been reading the thread and I’ll hopefully put out a somewhat cohesive reads list later tonight.

50 minutes ago, Amethyst Scorpion said:

I'm the first and the last person to always talk about how Effort Clears are bad and shouldn't be used, but in this case the effort falcon put in doesn't make sense to do for an Elim. The Reward is way too low for the time put in.

I do agree with Penguin about how it's not really alignment indicative, but I do think Swan's immediate jump on them is a little opportunistic. Same with Scorpion's lampshaded effort clear, but in the other direction. 

I won't be able to get on before rollover, so I suppose I should vote now. I don't have a lot of time right now, so tentatively Amethyst Scorpion over Swan because Swan made some good points page one while Scorpion felt odd. Goodbye for now. I'll see you on the other side.

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35 minutes ago, Oxblood Beagle said:

You didn't retract your vote on Weasel before placing one on Scorp. I'm assuming it's meant to be on Scorp, but rules did say to retract in green :)

>> Thank you. (Apologies to kel). For clarity: Weasel, Scorpion


Current (Largely Memory Based) Reads:

  • Albatross- Say more things, I like you :P Pretty solid gut village at the moment, particularly like their comments about poke votes, even if I don't necessarily agree. Aknoweldging that this read is more village than it deserves to be. Ninja'd me with a slight mindmeld on Swan, which helps my village read. (At the time of Alb posting, I was typing up my Scorp read, having finished the bullet points up to there).
     
  • Meerkat- Decent comment, but it is just a single comment. They've been around, since they replied to the Falcon-Meerkat-me PM, and even though it's logistically NAI I don't love that they haven't posted anything else.
     
  • Crocodile- Still think it's strange that they mentioned a small desire to be kandra'd despite choosing a playstyle that is hard to imitate, though I'm not reading that as elim as I was when the exchange happened. I do get a negative gut from their first post(s) and think it'd be funny to exe the Croc D1 again but at the moment I think they're my 2nd or 3rd choice. I arrogantly thought I had ID'd them, but their timezone comment seems to break the theory so I won't even mention it :P.
     
  • Swan- I feel like I'm mindmelding with Swan, but not necessarily in post content. I feel like we have a very similar tone. Which is a weird thing to read and only can happen in an anon game but if I wasn't me I might guess that Swan was me, if that makes sense xD But content-wise they're probably a Null+; I like the kinds of things they're saying but they also could be interpreted as selective, and ironically I kind of read their posts and vote on Falcon as what they accused Falcon for (trying to appear villagery while sliding past some discussion).
     
  • Dingo- Posted once (@Melon Dingo), responding to some NAI parts of Croc's post. Which is weird in a Dingo/Croc e/e sort of way but I won't go there until we get a flip from one of them.
     
  • Weasel- You seem new(ish) here, welcome! :D. I like your approach to solving, but you give an experienced vibe so I might be keeping a closer eye on you than I might for someone else, even if I probably should keep equally close eyes on everyone :P. But Light Village for now. Their recent points on Falcon are valid, but I... also don't read the situation that way, I guess? Idk, I'm more of a tone reader who supports with content and logic and that only works some of the time.
     
  • Mouse- @Azure Mouse come join the party!
     
  • Falcon- I think their PMing is NAI, and that there are valid arguments for it being villagery and for it being elimmy. I lean towards gut/tone reading them village, but that has little to do with the PMing itself, coming more from their other comments. A better exe today than some, but not the best imo.
     
  • Hyena- Most of their village reads are based around mostly nonexistent reasons, but they're passed as legitimate reasons, and I don't like that. Mild elim here. The same can be said about their vote on Weasel, though idk if an elim would pick to vote Weasel with this gamestate.
     
  • Beagle- Mostly null, I think people are giving them too much credit for their first post (or at least I perceive credit being given there). That isn't Beagle's fault though.
     
  • Scorpion- They're genuinely suspicious to me, which is... rare? In this way, at least. An explanation for their early posts is that they're kandra trying to muddy the waters for a body swap, which would be convenient. I guess I don't get how their page one posts come from a villager, with the multiple half-contradictions including the Alb vote. Nothing adds up here for me, which works as a D1 exe.
     
  • Ostrich- Just posted RP, right? @Fuchsia Ostrich
     
  • Dragonfly- I think one NAI post, similar to Ostrich. @Ivory Dragonfly
     
  • Vulture- Feel pretty good reading Vulture village, we've mindmelded on multiple points and I like their approach and tone. Open to revision later.
     

TL;DR (ordered within tiers):

  • Village: Vulture, Alb, Weasel
  • Light Village/Null+: Falcon, Swan
  • Null: Beagle, Meerkat, Dingo
    • Low/No Posters: Ostrich, Dragonfly, Mouse
  • Null-/Light Elim: Croc, Scorp
2 hours ago, Fuchsia Ostrich said:

"So... What's your name?"
@anyone

Jack Ladrian raised his right eyebrow at this Cody Eight, making sure the man was on Jack's left side so that the gesture went unnoticed. 'I suppose I could humor the man', Jack thought, 'even if I seem to be taking this a lot more seriously than he is'. It couldn't hurt to make acquaintances with the other Mistrunners.

Until it did. Jack had heard enough stories to know that this wouldn't end with someone being stabbed in the back. He hoped it wouldn't be his back, but there was little he could do about that. Remaining unattached might help...

Sighing softly, Jack opted to engage in light conversation anyway. "Jack," he said simply. He left it at that, since he was only posed the one question.

Edited by Chartreuse Penguin
RP subject/verb agreement
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Quote

8. Players are reminded this is an anon game, and are encouraged to maintain anonymity and to refrain from confirming or denying their identity, or using their personal relationships with others to authenticate themselves.

This section of the rules discourages identity claiming. I don't have a serious stake in this issue if people want to play into the secrecy for fun, but you should remember that the kandra will have the advantage of communication with the taken. They don't have to intensely profile their victims because their taken can tell them what tells to use. 

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18 minutes ago, Indigo Weasel said:

why can't it be both :D

 

Because someone has to die then?

if you target someone and they are converted then they are converted and anyone dying then doesn't make sense

if you target someone, and they flip under your name and you inherit their account, that's completely different

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Had to do other things but I'll be around more possibly. I think page 1 Scorpion was being suspicious on purpose, especially re: quoting elims from AG 8 " Especially D1, when votes are made up and reasonings don't matter." Or maybe Scorpion is Elandera. Verdict: unlikely. Who told Scorpion that Kandrafication wasn't a body swap? Or was it a misreading of the rules?

I can't see what Falcon accomplishes by opening so many PMs. No discussion has happened in the ones I'm in.

Having a difficult to imitate style makes one less likely to be impersonated but not less likely to start as elim, unless villagers try harder to be unmimicable.

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37 minutes ago, Indigo Weasel said:

why can't it be both :D

this player gets it

42 minutes ago, Amethyst Scorpion said:

Breaking my bit to announce that I was recently made aware that the kandra is a convert and not a body swap/kill?

is both

ok look

example here

Quartz Zebra is villager

Sapphire Elephant is kandra.

ellie is evil terribad no good and stabs zebra

zebra dies

then ellie devours him

to become him

& become more powerful

& big

& stronk

& unstoppable

ahem

anyway

ellie loses ellie account, takes over quartz zebra account

zebra swaps teams but is not dead yet

zebra gets a taken doc with ellie 

ellie's car now

but zebra is wingman

riding shotgun

until ellie decides he likes sunburst toucan better & steals sunburst's body instead

then zebra goes to dead doc still evil

and sunburst becomes new wingman bro

clear?

pls say it's clear

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2 hours ago, Chartreuse Penguin said:

Jack Ladrian raised his right eyebrow at this Cody Eight, making sure the man was on Jack's left side so that the gesture went unnoticed. 'I suppose I could humor the man', Jack thought, 'even if I seem to be taking this a lot more seriously than he is'. It couldn't hurt to make acquaintances with the other Mistrunners.

Until it did. Jack had heard enough stories to know that this wouldn't end with someone being stabbed in the back. He hoped it wouldn't be his back, but there was little he could do about that. Remaining unattached might help...

Sighing softly, Jack opted to engage in light conversation anyway. "Jack," he said simply. He left it at that, since he was only posed the one question.

"Oh. Well, hi, Jack."

"I'm a Mistrunner. But you know that already. You're clearly a Mistrunner yourself. I'd be happy to trade war stories with you sometime. Ummmm..."

"I couldn't help but overhear some of what you were saying earlier, my friend. Er. Are we friends now?"

2 hours ago, Chartreuse Penguin said:

 

Current (Largely Memory Based) Reads:

  • Albatross- Say more things, I like you :P Pretty solid gut village at the moment, particularly like their comments about poke votes, even if I don't necessarily agree. Aknoweldging that this read is more village than it deserves to be. Ninja'd me with a slight mindmeld on Swan, which helps my village read. (At the time of Alb posting, I was typing up my Scorp read, having finished the bullet points up to there).
     
  • Meerkat- Decent comment, but it is just a single comment. They've been around, since they replied to the Falcon-Meerkat-me PM, and even though it's logistically NAI I don't love that they haven't posted anything else.
     
  • Crocodile- Still think it's strange that they mentioned a small desire to be kandra'd despite choosing a playstyle that is hard to imitate, though I'm not reading that as elim as I was when the exchange happened. I do get a negative gut from their first post(s) and think it'd be funny to exe the Croc D1 again but at the moment I think they're my 2nd or 3rd choice. I arrogantly thought I had ID'd them, but their timezone comment seems to break the theory so I won't even mention it :P.
     
  • Swan- I feel like I'm mindmelding with Swan, but not necessarily in post content. I feel like we have a very similar tone. Which is a weird thing to read and only can happen in an anon game but if I wasn't me I might guess that Swan was me, if that makes sense xD But content-wise they're probably a Null+; I like the kinds of things they're saying but they also could be interpreted as selective, and ironically I kind of read their posts and vote on Falcon as what they accused Falcon for (trying to appear villagery while sliding past some discussion).
     
  • Dingo- Posted once (@Melon Dingo), responding to some NAI parts of Croc's post. Which is weird in a Dingo/Croc e/e sort of way but I won't go there until we get a flip from one of them.
     
  • Weasel- You seem new(ish) here, welcome! :D. I like your approach to solving, but you give an experienced vibe so I might be keeping a closer eye on you than I might for someone else, even if I probably should keep equally close eyes on everyone :P. But Light Village for now. Their recent points on Falcon are valid, but I... also don't read the situation that way, I guess? Idk, I'm more of a tone reader who supports with content and logic and that only works some of the time.
     
  • Mouse- @Azure Mouse come join the party!
     
  • Falcon- I think their PMing is NAI, and that there are valid arguments for it being villagery and for it being elimmy. I lean towards gut/tone reading them village, but that has little to do with the PMing itself, coming more from their other comments. A better exe today than some, but not the best imo.
     
  • Hyena- Most of their village reads are based around mostly nonexistent reasons, but they're passed as legitimate reasons, and I don't like that. Mild elim here. The same can be said about their vote on Weasel, though idk if an elim would pick to vote Weasel with this gamestate.
     
  • Beagle- Mostly null, I think people are giving them too much credit for their first post (or at least I perceive credit being given there). That isn't Beagle's fault though.
     
  • Scorpion- They're genuinely suspicious to me, which is... rare? In this way, at least. An explanation for their early posts is that they're kandra trying to muddy the waters for a body swap, which would be convenient. I guess I don't get how their page one posts come from a villager, with the multiple half-contradictions including the Alb vote. Nothing adds up here for me, which works as a D1 exe.
     
  • Ostrich- Just posted RP, right? @Fuchsia Ostrich
     
  • Dragonfly- I think one NAI post, similar to Ostrich. @Ivory Dragonfly
     
  • Vulture- Feel pretty good reading Vulture village, we've mindmelded on multiple points and I like their approach and tone. Open to revision later.
     

TL;DR (ordered within tiers):

  • Village: Vulture, Alb, Weasel
  • Light Village/Null+: Falcon, Swan
  • Null: Beagle, Meerkat, Dingo
    • Low/No Posters: Ostrich, Dragonfly, Mouse
  • Null-/Light Elim: Croc, Scorp

"You had some interesting points."

"Everyone does."

"It's been... Hard to get much to go off of, if I'm being honest. I'm... Obviously I'm a super experienced Mistrunner, but my comfort zone is usually the epic an thrilling combat jobs, not, so much, the ones that have to involve sleuthing."

"Now, I've been keeping my eyes open, of course. I... May have been listening for a while before I walked on in the Electric Sparrow." He looks sheepish.

"And first of all, anybody who wants to get eaten by kandra is kinda just insane... Right?" Cody said. "No reasonable Mistrunner would say something like that. And, I kinda don't figure any reasonable infiltrator would either? It's all crazy head games, yeah? I definitely agree that it's not somebody I would trust when crem hits the fan, but mostly... It's just confusing."

"Second, I'm.. Not sure what to think about sharing our real names with each other. I know we aren't really supposed to(?) but Weasel is raising some really good points!! What do you think about it?"

Cody takes another sip of his drink, and wrinkles his nose.

"Scorp and Hyena are giving me the heebie jeebies, a little bit."

"Why would Scorp vote to terminate me without even knowing if I was around or not to even terminate? Scorp says Scorp didn't read the mission briefings and didn't understand how kandras can impersonate people, which would imply they are not the kandra, but then why would they post about that out of nowhere? If Scorp really was explained by someone in private how impersonation works, what is the purpose of making a public announcement about it?"
"Hyena seems to have sorted themselves in the evil bucket which is more than a little concerning."

"Also, my Mistrunner messaging client seems to be experiencing errors," Cody frowns. "There are a lot of empty messages in there and I don't think that's quite right!!"

"What do you think??"

Edited by Fuchsia Ostrich
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This is my current votecount. As I have just napped after an all-nighter because I was required to OT even on leave, and brawled with Hael and Orlok (not brawled them and not simultaneously), I am tired as all hells. What this means is that if you notice a discrepancy in the votecount, please let me know ASAP.

Quote

Amethyst Scorpion (3): Chartreuse Penguin, Magenta Albatross, Oxblood Beagle
Emerald Falcon (2): Coral Swan, Amethyst Scorpion
Chartreuse Penguin (1): Mauve Crocodile
Indigo Weasel (1): Charcoal Hyena
Mauve Crocodile (1): Amber Vulture

 

Edited by <kel>
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5 hours ago, Chartreuse Penguin said:

Dragonfly- I think one NAI post, similar to Ostrich.

yup sorry life will be busy the first few days

would be wonderful to stay alive long enough to be more than sorta active

but i understand if that doesnt happen

dont think ill have a chance to dig into this cycle before it ends so imma abstain from the vote

mostly because i need sleep if im gonna be a contributing member of society

i promise itll be the only time

hopefully

im not good with instructions

or promises

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8 hours ago, Magenta Albatross said:

Is there a strong reason you voted Scorpion over Penguin here when you listed both suspicions on what seems like equal footing?

I assumed my vote would signify that my suspicions were not, in fact, on an equal footing :P. 

But this is irrelevant as I don't believe Scorp's an elim anymore. PM interactions plus rereading the thread changed my mind.

Village: Scorp, Weasel

 

edit:

I accidentally hit a combination of keys that submitted the post rip. I am not done. >:[

Restating my reads list:

Village: Scorp, Weasel
Mild Elim: Hyena, Falcon, Penguin 
Elim: Swan 

Therefore my vote goes to Swan for radiating suspicious vibes. I dislike how fast the Scorp train took off and Swan jumping onto the Falcon train just seems like an elim trying to start a counterwagon to make the Scorp train look less opportunistic. 

My Croc vote was just an impulse vote - I wanted to

Quote

seeeeee. to waaatchhh.

how they'd react to it and they essentially gave me nothing so I'm happy to leave them on the back burner for a while.

Edited by Amber Vulture
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7 hours ago, Salmon Meerkat said:

Had to do other things but I'll be around more possibly. I think page 1 Scorpion was being suspicious on purpose, especially re: quoting elims from AG 8 " Especially D1, when votes are made up and reasonings don't matter."

I mean, sure, but what’s gained by purposely acting suspicious? There’s no reason for a villager to want to do that that I can think of, but there’s no reason for an elim to either.

Having slept on it and relooked at the thread, along with reading comments from Meerkat and Vulture, I’m less confident about Scorpion, not that I was mega-confident to begin with. Right now I could go Croc or Hyena. I still prefer Scorp to Falcon so I’ll switch back later if the trains remain as they are.

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9 hours ago, Indigo Weasel said:

The potential reward is higher for a scum than for a townie who has to worry about the amount of information they could expose to a kandra if their network is fruitful. For the record, I think having ninety ongoing conversations to monitor is a good excuse to not be particularly active in any one of them, which undercuts Falcon's stated purpose for doing this. 

There are a couple that have been somewhat active. I made all the pms, and am talking in the ones where others are as well. It also helps give me some info based on which pms players respond to because I made basically every possible combination with three players. (Excluding the last ones after scorp asked not to be in any more pms). Scorps reaction to my making pms seems more villagery to me, but most of that is from things they said in pms.

8 hours ago, Salmon Meerkat said:

Had to do other things but I'll be around more possibly. I think page 1 Scorpion was being suspicious on purpose, especially re: quoting elims from AG 8 " Especially D1, when votes are made up and reasonings don't matter." Or maybe Scorpion is Elandera. Verdict: unlikely. Who told Scorpion that Kandrafication wasn't a body swap? Or was it a misreading of the rules?

I can't see what Falcon accomplishes by opening so many PMs. No discussion has happened in the ones I'm in.

Having a difficult to imitate style makes one less likely to be impersonated but not less likely to start as elim, unless villagers try harder to be unmimicable.

I've basically been talking in the ones where people have been responding. The best way to get them active is to talk in them.

I have some pms to go through, and after that I'll post my reads list and vote. 

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Sorry for the double post, but have a vote so can't edit it in. 

I feel like at least one elim responded to my pms. Ostrich is the only one who responded to all of them. Scorp didn't want to be in any of them (as did many players I would assume). Penguin, Meerkat, Vulture, Dingo, Albatross, Swan all responded to at least one. I might have missed one or two because there are so many. That's 8/15 players. Would be surprised if no elims are in there. 

Feel pretty good about Scorp, Weasel, Meerkat and Dingo because of reactions. 

Alb was the only player who made a 1 on 1 pm with me after I made a bunch of them, which might indicate that they don't want to risk talking in group pms because they are elim and don't want to be caught slipping somehow. 

Don't know what to think about Ostrich being the only player to respond to all the pms. Almost all of the responses were just saying hi or hello. 

Penguin, Vulture, and Swan gave good vibes when responding to pms. 

Mouse, Dragonfly haven't really posted that much (or at all) so no idea. 

Don't have current reads on Crocodile, Hyena, or Beagle. 

 

For now I'll put my vote on Ostrich

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1 hour ago, Amber Vulture said:

I dislike how fast the Scorp train took off and Swan jumping onto the Falcon train just seems like an elim trying to start a counterwagon to make the Scorp train look less opportunistic. 

I was going to just ignore this, but the reasoning is so flawed that I'm going to respond. For starters, you are only suspicious of a single player that voted Scorp; Penguin. I'm not sure how a train with a single elim on it could take off fast enough for the elims to be worried about said train revealing themselves. But, suppose we are in that unlikely world. Then why in the Lord Ruler's name would the elims start a countertrain on a teammate (you have Falcon as suspicious)? Also, there are likely 2-3 elims. So that means that if you are right, the elims have seriously overcommitted themselves this cycle (not that a recent AN didn't have this situation).

So basically this looks like reaching. Not going to change my vote but might want to vote out Vulture next cycle. My hesitance is because in a different game/different cycle, this could be a valid village train of thought. But I don't think it makes sense in C1 of a game with at most 3 elims (hopefully this statement isn't too contentious).

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15 minutes ago, Emerald Falcon said:

Alb was the only player who made a 1 on 1 pm with me after I made a bunch of them, which might indicate that they don't want to risk talking in group pms because they are elim and don't want to be caught slipping somehow. 

To me, group PMs are kinda scary bc there are more chances for elims to be there too. Also they're weirder bc if I'm talking to just you I feel weird abt talking to just you when there's a person I'm kinda leaving out of the conversation.

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10 minutes ago, Indigo Weasel said:

Is two scum against thirteen town common here? 

25% evil is about standard, so I'd guess 3 elims with 1 kandra, but kel likes non-standard distros so who knows. Maybe I could see 2 elims and 2 kandra, but 15% as a starting percentage is real low.

Edit: I'd missed Vulture's vote change until just now, and their vote was largely why I went Croc over Hyena. Interestingly, I'm finding myself preferring Swan to Falcon, but I'm not sure how far I want to go with that suspicion when it doesn't feel warranted to me.

Edited by Chartreuse Penguin
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