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1 hour ago, Coral Swan said:

Maybe Scorp is Striker trying that thing he tried in the last LG, of deliberately acting weird to see who jumps for it? Or it's an RP thing (hope this isn't the case, AN's are hard enough without deliberately referencing the wrong people)? 

I'm willing to entertain the possibility that Scorp is an elim planning to use the perfect mimicry in the near future, and is setting themself up to flip. Posting this way ensures that the village gets no extra info off their posts because using the mimicry will expose their alignment. After all, how does an elim planning to bodyhop behave before their flip?

 

edit:

Also, all elims are kandra. So I misspoke here when I said:

1 hour ago, Amber Vulture said:

it won't surprise me to find out the kandra don't exist

Because obviously, elims exist :P. What I meant to say was that it's possible that the number of bodyhops they get is none.

Edited by Amber Vulture
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3 hours ago, Amethyst Scorpion said:

I get voting for someone who's posted over not, but I don't get why vote for someone who's null over someone with an elim read. Especially D1, when votes are made up and reasonings don't matter.

The village has D1'd an elim three games in a row, so votes and reasonings are relevant even so early. Also nice to see Swan defending voting for a null over an elim read again.

2 hours ago, Amber Vulture said:

Embedding encrypted messages, placing other uniquely personalized media in my posts, etc. But of course, going the extra mile to make a possible conversion detectable is not in my best interests since my loyalties inevitably shift in that event.

If you're a villager, it's in your team's best interest to dissuade conversion attempts by making yourself difficult to imitate. If everyone puts in the effort to do so, the elims may not be able to make any body hops without detection, but even narrowing down the candidates is helpful.

Spoiler

The summons comes late at night on one of my appointed sleeping days. First, my cybernetic eyes snap open, the setting to keep them closed while I slept having been overridden.  Then I hear Edrena’s voice from my voice modulator. <I’m afraid we’re in need of your services once again, Vel. Report to my lab for briefing.>

I want to go back to sleep. I’ve already spent all day on security duty and none of my body modifications prevent me from getting tired. Heron Industries also expects nothing less than enthusiasm from its employees, so I respond subvocally, <I’ll be there as soon as I can.>

I roll out of my cot in my nightclothes. My only other possessions in the room that aren’t part of me are my slippers which I put on before leaving the room. My own quarters, which is a privilege among Heron Industries field operatives, but also renders me totally isolated from the others in my line of work. My other belongings are kept locked up in Edrena’s laboratory for her to dole out at Heron Industries’ convenience. I head there now, dread pooling in my gut at the prospect of being sent out once again to commit acts of violence. That and the cold hallway air on my exposed arms and lower legs start to truly wake me up and prepare me for my assignment. Meanwhile, I create a new index entry in my internal coppermind. When I upload the memories of this trip down the hallways, I’ll change these emotion to something more suitable. The data techs that review my stored memories prefer unthinking loyalty, as if there’s nothing that makes me more content than serving Heron Industries to the full extent of my abilities.

I reach Edrena’s lab after only a couple minutes. When I was first assigned to her supervision six years ago after Heron Industries rejected my application to join R&D, it had taken a full twenty minutes to reach her, then much smaller and jointly owned, lab from the shared guard and operative quarters. When she was promoted to head of the R&D department for unofficial operations three and a half years ago, due in large part to my successes as a field operative, she was allowed to reshuffle the living arrangements of the personnel under her command. Now I live alone right outside the R&D wing itself, making it far easier for her to call on me. The scanner on the door to her lab registers my cybernetic eyes with a soft beep. I’m not authorized to enter the lab on my own, but I am on the list of permitted visitors. Seconds later, Edrena approves my request, the door slides open, and I step inside.

She looks more frazzled than usual, as if she was also woken up for whatever this mission is. I haven’t seen her look like this since she was just a research assistant. She fishes a remote out of a pocket of her lab coat and hits the button. I hear a soft hum as the automatic visual and auditory recording capacities of my eyes and voice modulator shut down. This mission must be even more serious than it already appeared. I create an additional coppermind heading to file away the details and wait for her explanation.

“It’s called Project Replicant,” she says. “My department has been working with the Hemalurgists since before I joined Heron Industries to create our own version of Kandra for use in infiltration missions such as the type you specialize in. Our prototypes are capable of replicating a perfect DNA match of an individual from their bones and can survive injuries that would kill even a Bloodmaker. Their design reinforces the skeletal structure of a host body to protect it from harm. Unlike a regular Kandra, removing their spikes kills them, and they can be temporarily incapacitated with precise jolts of electricity. Your name was on the shortlist to be a test subject for that program actually, but I kept you out of it. You were too valuable to waste on an experimental procedure, plus your natural shapeshifting abilities were more than sufficient.”

She pauses and looks up at me, her expression set and not smiling, which further underscores the severity of the situation. I unfreeze the neutral expression and detached eye contact that typically suits best for these briefings to adopt a look of curiosity and concern. This must be correct, as she continues in her serious business voice, “Something must have gone wrong because there was a containment breach at the facility that houses Project Replicant and they’ve gone into security lockdown. My superiors have decided that the response to this crisis cannot be linked to Heron Industries in any way. They’ve hired the mistrunner clientele of some dive bar, the Electric Sparrow, to enter the locked down area and settle the cause of the disturbance. Your mission is to join their crew and make sure that no knowledge of Project Replicant reaches the outside world. I’ve selected equipment that will allow you to fit in with this crew, which you’ll find in the storage area. I don’t want a single mistrunner leaving that building alive. Any mistrunners you deem worthy of recruitment are to be left unconscious inside the building so Security can handle them. Surviving mistrunners not worth our time are to be executed upon completion of the mission. Your secondary objective is to preserve current progress on Project Replicant. Do not terminate any test subjects or prototypes unless necessary to prevent them from escaping lockdown, and avoid destruction of research notes except to keep them from falling into the hands of these mercenaries. I will dispatch your team to secure the perimeter, but you will not be able to keep in contact with them and they must not learn any details regarding Project Replicant. Upon successful completion of your objectives, you are to give a full report to me, store all your memories of this mission starting from when you woke up on your coppermind, and then delete them. Do you understand?”

I point to my head where my copperminds are embedded. She relaxes for a second and smiles. “Of course you do, my technological marvel.” I smile back to show that I agree that the technological advances I possess or have made use of are incredible, which is true, and that I don’t mind the fact that so many of them are used to strip away my privacy, which is not. “On that note,” she continues, “since this is a dangerous mission, I’ll need a copy of your most recent memories just in case.”

I quickly fill the memories I’ve made since the last transfer and haven’t yet stored into their preformatted slots in my copperminds. When I’m done, I turn around, putting my back to her. I feel her reach her hands up to brush my hair away from my neck, which takes her several attempts to accomplish, and place a cold copper disk on the base of my brain stem. “You’ve been growing your hair out again,” she observes when the requisite memories have finished copying over. “When you get back, we’ll have to cut it back down to regulation length”.

“Of course,” I reply, my modulated voice easily keeping any emotion out of my words, as always. “I’ll return when Project Replicant is secure once more. I start to walk towards storage to collect my work clothes and gear, noticing that she doesn’t turn the recording functionalities back on. I smile internally. Perhaps the secrecy of this mission will work to my advantage. Tamara’s crew will certainly want to know everything about Project Replicant, and perhaps some of the mistrunners will prove skilled and trustworthy enough to join her. Original character, do not steal.

 

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3 hours ago, Coral Swan said:

Maybe Scorp is Striker trying that thing he tried in the last LG, of deliberately acting weird to see who jumps for it? Or it's an RP thing (hope this isn't the case, AN's are hard enough without deliberately referencing the wrong people)? 

Eh, I’d rather make an effort to keep this game somewhat anonymous :P So I’m much more inclined to follow Vulture’s train of thought here.

Scorp

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7 minutes ago, Chartreuse Penguin said:

Eh, I’d rather make an effort to keep this game somewhat anonymous :P So I’m much more inclined to follow Vulture’s train of thought here.

Scorp

Yeah, good point about the anonymity. I was mostly saying that there is some precedent for deliberately confusing behavior from a villager (though I don't really condone that). My personal take is that holding off on body hops for as long as possible would be ideal, or that at the very least a N1 hop would be inefficient. But this probably just comes down to a risk preference sort of thing.

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12 minutes ago, Coral Swan said:

Yeah, good point about the anonymity. I was mostly saying that there is some precedent for deliberately confusing behavior from a villager (though I don't really condone that). My personal take is that holding off on body hops for as long as possible would be ideal, or that at the very least a N1 hop would be inefficient. But this probably just comes down to a risk preference sort of thing.

A N1 hop gives less time for a strong tone to develop though, and as a result, an easier hop. As it was with the Fang mechanic used in a recent game, there are pluses and minuses to both options. Guess we’ll see.

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2 hours ago, Indigo Weasel said:

Were the team distributions ever announced? I can't find them in the rules. 

Nope. They typically aren't, keeps us guessing :P

2 hours ago, Indigo Weasel said:

I think that Penguin's support of anonymity is illogical in a relatable way that I believe comes from a town mindset. 

Illogical... how exactly? Meta is helpful, but it's an anonymous game and that's the entire point. (Well, the point here is the kandra mechanic but you get what I mean. Normally anon games don't have a feature that require the anon accounts)

Liking what I've seen from Swan and Vulture though I'm worried I didn't look close enough and just bounced off the general agreement we seem to be having. More people should show up, that'd be nice.

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6 hours ago, Amber Vulture said:

Also, all elims are kandra. So I misspoke here when I said:

Pre-emptively correcting this: I have clarified previously that Elims may not be all kandra. This is in part the rationale for not announcing hops to the Village - it lets the Village know both the Elim team size and gives them a rough idea of team composition.

See here:

Cf.

Quote

Not all Elims may be SynthKandra; similarly, not all SynthKandra may have the same amount of hops. The number of hops will not be told to the Village.

Two further rule clarifications:

  • Kandra may not hop into a player who has been terminated. We'll assume that whatever they do to the body, there's not enough left for impersonation. Ouch.
     
  • Kandra may do a side-shuffle: for instance, Kandra A kills and replaces Quartz Zebra, and Kandra B replaces the body vacated by Kandra A. This is technically possible and I am allowing this as it is high-risk: if Quartz Zebra is a Thug or Lurched, then both Kandra A and Kandra B will lose a conversion attempt.

This used to be phrased properly in kel speak but I am bloody tired and annoyed after losing this post the first time and I probably shouldn't screw around with rule clarifications as I'd prefer you all understand what the rules are as compared to being confused.

Oh, and yes, yes, for the love of the Ja, you can have group PMs! >>

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A question for @Chartreuse Penguin and @Amethyst Scorpion - Did you not read the rules, or are you deliberately trying to confuse the vote? Where should your votes actually be?

Quote

2. Voting is to be done in the thread. There is a minimum threshold of two votes for terminations to take place. Ties will result in no termination taking place. Please colour-code your termination votes as follows: Wyrmhero [red and bold]. Retract your termination votes as follows: Wyrmhero [green and bold].

Vote Tally:

Albatross (1 (2)): Swan, (Scorp?)

Ostrich (1 (0)): Scorp(?)

Weasel (1 (0)): Penguin(?)

Scorp (2 (3)): Vulture, (Penguin?), Beagle

Scorp.

Some questions for @<kel>:

Close-Quarters Specialist, Combat Medic, Negotiator, Enforcer, and Infiltrator - Will the people targeted by these abilities be told they are in their PMs?

Quote

Hello, There!: Every Day, you may target another player and...persuade them to see things your way. That player’s vote will change to be on another player of your choice. This sacrifices your own vote. This change will be reflected in the number of votes in the writeup, but the player will still appear to have voted for their original choice.

Does this mean that, if the Negotiator had a vote in, theirs would disappear from the list because they had used this ability, or would their name remain, with just the number reduced?

Quote

The SynthKandra are trying to survive and avoid termination. They win when they can outnumber the surviving players.

Does the "surviving players" count include any elims who are NOT Synthkandra? I'd find it pretty funny if the elims had to kill some of their own for victory!

Edited by Oxblood Beagle
Added questions for Kel
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38 minutes ago, Oxblood Beagle said:

A question for @Chartreuse Penguin and @Amethyst Scorpion - Did you not read the rules, or are you deliberately trying to confuse the vote? Where should your votes actually be?

Vote Tally:

Albatross (1 (2)): Swan, (Scorp?)

Ostrich (1 (0)): Scorp(?)

Weasel (1 (0)): Penguin(?)

Scorp (2 (3)): Vulture, (Penguin?), Beagle

Scorp.

Some questions for @<kel>:

Close-Quarters Specialist, Combat Medic, Negotiator, Enforcer, and Infiltrator - Will the people targeted by these abilities be told they are in their PMs?

Does this mean that, if the Negotiator had a vote in, theirs would disappear from the list because they had used this ability, or would their name remain, with just the number reduced?

Does the "surviving players" count include any elims who are NOT Synthkandra? I'd find it pretty funny if the elims had to kill some of their own for victory!

to everything:

if u've played a tyrian game before, which i will neither confirm nor deny publicly, the short answer is that everything is done just like in a tyrian game

this is basically a tyrian game+

38 minutes ago, Oxblood Beagle said:

Close-Quarters Specialist, Combat Medic, Negotiator, Enforcer, and Infiltrator - Will the people targeted by these abilities be told they are in their PMs?

no, no, no, no, no, no, no 

u will know if u survive death and the thread will know u survived death but that's it

38 minutes ago, Oxblood Beagle said:

Does this mean that, if the Negotiator had a vote in, theirs would disappear from the list because they had used this ability, or would their name remain, with just the number reduced?

this

bro

this is a basic tyrian game at core

normal se vote manip functionality is there

this is basically a rioter so all vote manip works this way

wyrm (1): ren, kas

this is how it looks

in this world ren is the rioter and own vote is removed

38 minutes ago, Oxblood Beagle said:

Does the "surviving players" count include any elims who are NOT Synthkandra? I'd find it pretty funny if the elims had to kill some of their own for victory!

no b/c im not that much of a troll >>

elims have to outnumber, that's it

edited to add: the only tyrian ruling im removing is smoked rioter

if a rioter is smoked they still lose their own vote

smoked rioting was nonsense on stilts and kas bro, ilu but u r a fool 4 ever allowing it

the smoked rioter loses their own vote & its their own bloody fault

they have no one but themselves to blame

edited to add 2: i prefer players to green out the votes but kas bro has told me they get testy if u enforce this

so i will count the last red vote, i'll just also quietly complain to wyrm/kas tt u guys find basic instructions hard :P 

Edited by <kel>
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Since identity vagueness makes impersonations easier, the case for non anonymity is the strongest. Scum might try to reason their way towards undermining acceptance of that conclusion, but an impulsive preference for anonymity puts Penguin in a pointlessly vulnerable position and misses an opportunity to persuade people to join them in it. My understanding of this use of anonymous accounts is that it facilitates the game mechanics in a distinct way from the tournaments that use them which have different motivations more in line with Penguin's suggestions. 

For comparison, Vulture's first post raises the unlikely possibility of there being no kandra using flawed logic. A mechanic that failed to activate should not imply this mechanic does not exist. They also suggest an identification strategy that would be ineffective because of the Kandra's victim's alignment change and ability to communicate with them. These are scummy musings along the way towards an acceptable conclusion. 

Thank you for the vote tally, Beagle! I found your public questions to be towny as well, specifically the one about the scum win condition.

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12 hours ago, Chartreuse Penguin said:

As it was with the Fang mechanic used in a recent game, there are pluses and minuses to both options.

Exactly, except the Fang was majorly different in the sense that the village had more of a say on whether it got used. Here it's completely up to the elims to decide if they want to reveal the alignment of their original account and hop into another one. Unless the elims plan in advance everything they say using their original account pre-hopping, bodyhopping may inadvertently end up helping the village as it gives us the elim flip info to work with, even though numbers-wise, we'll be in the same position. If they do chose to bodyhop, it is probably safer to assume that the posts made by their original account were meant to mislead. It depends on how well they've thought this through I suppose - they might not feel the need to bodyhop at all, not unless someone claims an important role they want to usurp.

2 hours ago, Oxblood Beagle said:

Scorp.

Question for you - why Scorp?

2 minutes ago, Indigo Weasel said:

For comparison, Vulture's first post raises the unlikely possibility of there being no kandra using flawed logic. A mechanic that failed to activate should not imply this mechanic does not exist.

Again, using the Fang mechanic was not entirely for the elims to decide. Such is not the case here.

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5 minutes ago, Indigo Weasel said:

Do scum often not try to mislead with their posts?

Don't you think their objectives would change given the fact that their flip is premediated? There's always misdirection, yes, but they don't always operate with the assumption that they will flip. To sum it up, I expect the IKYK element to be stronger here.

10 minutes ago, Indigo Weasel said:

Balanced against the level of effort required to move players into separate accounts, how likely do you feel the possibility of they're being no kandra is, Vulture??

Not sure, but I wouldn't presume distros in the slightest. Obviously, I am playing with the assumption that they do exist. 

11 minutes ago, Indigo Weasel said:

Is the plural kandra or kandras???

Good question. I think it's kandra :P. 

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22 minutes ago, Amber Vulture said:

Exactly, except the Fang was majorly different in the sense that the village had more of a say on whether it got used. Here it's completely up to the elims to decide if they want to reveal the alignment of their original account and hop into another one. Unless the elims plan in advance everything they say using their original account pre-hopping, bodyhopping may inadvertently end up helping the village as it gives us the elim flip info to work with, even though numbers-wise, we'll be in the same position. If they do chose to bodyhop, it is probably safer to assume that the posts made by their original account were meant to mislead. It depends on how well they've thought this through I suppose - they might not feel the need to bodyhop at all, not unless someone claims an important role they want to usurp.

Well, yeah. All I’m trying to say is that there’s never a given time for the body swaps to occur. I don’t love the idea of assuming the elims do anything, most of the times I’ve done that I was dead wrong and doing so here could lead down rabbit holes. I’m not saying we shouldn’t look, but I don’t want to decide the posts from kandra’s first account were meant to mislead without seeing what those posts were first. Like, I could see that being Scorp, but kandra!me probably wouldn’t play any different from normal elim!me.

I do think that there’s kandra, definitely. Kas wouldn’t design this and go through the effort of running an anon game without including the main mechanic that makes it such :P 

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9 hours ago, said:

 

  • Kandra may not hop into a player who has been terminated. We'll assume that whatever they do to the body, there's not enough left for impersonation. Ouch.

hiya hiya hiya!!!! can't move this quote box down to address later cuz me phone be dumbzo but hi y'all! im glad botcher. i botch things up! like putting quote boxes in the wrong spot! or not getting a notification about a game starting until it's almost a day into it wuuuuuutttt.

anywaiz kel that's not nice. my body is a temple thank you very much. it may be a messy temple with lots of problems and things falling apart and aches and pains that never used to be there but it is not supposed to be desecrated in such a manner!!!! you should use the powers that be in you to teach those kandra a lesson so they're not doing such horrible things to bodies!

tho i guess one flipflopside do i wants to be impersonenonayted??? .....kinda achtully. mostly just to seeeeee. to waaatchhh.

watch. watch. why that word be soo familiar to me. ah well i dontsa no.

 

54 minutes ago, Chartreuse Penguin said:

Kas wouldn’t design this

whos kas?? i don't know this kas person. this game was designreated by kel. kel's been my bud since like this one game with mud and evil pandas and door fangs - yep the doors had fangs on them isn't that so coooolll? wouldn't you like to have a fanged door??? you could sicc it on anyone knocking you don't want to talk to!!!!

okay achtully kel wasn't my bud then i lied. but it was only a small lie.

but in other nooz (ha my phone just changed that to booze. phone are you telling me something??? i know it's five o clock somewhere but it's not even noon here so noooo). imma vote for the pukey colored flightless bird. penguin. 

why be mad when you can be glaaaddddd :)))))))))

Edited by Mauve Crocodile
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4 minutes ago, Melon Dingo said:

You're s'posed to bold your votes too.

what if it's fun to be mad? (don't question it, I say weird things.)

danke! i totes didn't notice that (there's more than a small chance i haven't actually red the rulezzz whoooops)

and i guess if it's fun to be mad then you can be both - mad and glad! and i guess it depends on the type of madnesses we talking about here. like is it the maddy mad where you hit things and say mean thingss? or is it the maaaadddddd where someone might see fit to restrain your arms and put you in a white room for an indefinite period of time???? these are the important questions yep.

 

why be mad when you can be glaaaaaaddddd :))))))))

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2 minutes ago, Chartreuse Penguin said:

Huh, I’d assumed that your tone was chosen specifically because it’d be hard to impersonate, thus signifying you don’t want to be.

I'm guessing they just want to watch the kandra struggle with trying to replicate the tone :P.

Mauve Crocodile 

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4 minutes ago, Chartreuse Penguin said:

Huh, I’d assumed that your tone was chosen specifically because it’d be hard to impersonate, thus signifying you don’t want to be.

but that's why it would be fun to watch. to see it try to be duplicated!!! and achtully i just doing this becuz it's fun. Don't gots to be anyy more reason than that. Is my adhd let loooooseeee!!! Wild!!!! Is running rampant!!! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES. okay that might have been a little too much. Maybe. Still ponderizing on that.

Y be mad when you can bee glaaaaddddddd :)))))))

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2 hours ago, Mauve Crocodile said:

anywaiz kel that's not nice. my body is a temple thank you very much. it may be a messy temple with lots of problems and things falling apart and aches and pains that never used to be there but it is not supposed to be desecrated in such a manner!!!! you should use the powers that be in you to teach those kandra a lesson so they're not doing such horrible things to bodies!

 

hey burnt

give me one good reason to

im waitin

:eyes:

just one (1)

:eyes:

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4 minutes ago, Mauve Crocodile said:

wasn't i supposed to be the glorious shining el?????

i may be in my dotage

but i m not so far gone as to not be able to recognise my im is not in fact playing this game >:(

do not even try to confuse me burntling >:(

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