Cocoa

Rosharan Investiture Deficiency in the Space Age

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I was giving thought to the logistical difficulties involved in space travel/worldhopping, and one thing that came to mind is that that Rosharans might be adversely affected by something as simple as a lack of highstorms on long voyages. Here we have a planet where everything's evolved in a fairly investiture-rich environment, which we see reflected in things like gemhearts and how plants grow better when given highstorm water.

So what happens when we remove native Rosharans from this environment for long periods of time? Well, I'm guessing that at least for rookie spacers/worldhoppers, they'd begin feeling slightly ill and lethargic from the lack of Light after enough time, even if their actual health isn't in serious danger. I can imagine this being called something like "stormless sickness" or "a case of the dims" or something like that.

I don't think this is a hugely important detail, and I've got no clue if I'm actually onto something or not, but it's fun to think about how the little biological quirks of the various Cosmere peoples would affect their lives outside their native worlds.

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Posted (edited)

That's actually really cool. I wonder if people can have an investiture withdrawal. Like can Allomantic savants? Or even normal Rosharans because, as said above, they are exposed to so much investiture

Edited by Morningtide
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You are definitely on to something. We know rosharans have somewhat less developed immune systems because of the Investiture rich ecosystem, which is why the world-hopper introduced Cold was such a strange thing to them.  In the Space Age they could probably take steps to supplement it artificially (some smallish amount of Breath should do it) or ambient use fabrials similar RL sun-lamps in arctic areas, and actual Radiant's probably would have other issues but not being Under-Invested. Having a Bondsmith around to open Perpendicularities on the regular would also be helpful.

 

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1 hour ago, Quantus said:

 Having a Bondsmith around to open Perpendicularities on the regular would also be helpful.

That's a good idea, I didn't think of that. 

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I think Brandon is planting the seeds for this with what the Ghostbloods are up to as one of their known goals. They just need a 3D printer that can print a perfect gem :) 

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1 hour ago, Morningtide said:

That's a good idea, I didn't think of that. 

Now, the implications of removing one of the three Godspren from Roshar would be a whole other issue. The Nightwatcher might not serve an ecological role on roshar itself, for example, but the Stormfather does.  

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2 minutes ago, Quantus said:

Now, the implications of removing one of the three Godspren from Roshar would be a whole other issue. The Nightwatcher might not serve an ecological role on roshar itself, for example, but the Stormfather does.  

That is fascinating. Is the Stormfather THE STORM, or would the storms continue without him. If they did continue, they probably wouldn't give investiture. 

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55 minutes ago, Morningtide said:

That is fascinating. Is the Stormfather THE STORM, or would the storms continue without him. If they did continue, they probably wouldn't give investiture. 

Might not be as big of a problem in Era 4 depending on how the current conflicts turn out, since there are two storms now...

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57 minutes ago, Quantus said:

Now, the implications of removing one of the three Godspren from Roshar would be a whole other issue. The Nightwatcher might not serve an ecological role on roshar itself, for example, but the Stormfather does.  

I stated in a previous thread that I could see the Sibling leaving Roshar to become the spacestation/mothership: Urithuru rather than just the tower: Urithuru. Considering the world went on mostly unchanged from the Sibling's pretend "slumber" for so long, Roshar could probably go one fairly unchanged without them. My only concern would be for the spren that seem to have formed an ecosystem around Urithuru in the Cognitive Realm. But I doubt any spren would be completely dependent on it, and they could probably return to more "natural" habitats. So then it would really be like clearing a birds nest out of a plane so it could fly again, which isn't too immoral.

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1 hour ago, Quantus said:

Now, the implications of removing one of the three Godspren from Roshar would be a whole other issue. The Nightwatcher might not serve an ecological role on roshar itself, for example, but the Stormfather does.  

Actually the Bondsmithspren are more omnipresent than the others, so they can stay on Roshar

Spoiler

Questioner

Does the spren have to be present for a Surgebinder to have their abilities? Because with Dalinar, the Stormfather won’t be around all the time...

Brandon Sanderson

Good Question! Fortunately, the Stormfather is a little more omnipresent. Normally you’re gonna have to have your spren close, but the Stormfather absorbed... is basically Honor’s Cognitive Shadow, which means he’s got a connection to a lot of different things, so he’s not bound by a lot of the rules that others are.

Shadows of Self San Francisco signing (Oct. 9, 2015)

 

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1 hour ago, Frustration said:

Actually the Bondsmithspren are more omnipresent than the others, so they can stay on Roshar

  Hide contents

Questioner

Does the spren have to be present for a Surgebinder to have their abilities? Because with Dalinar, the Stormfather won’t be around all the time...

Brandon Sanderson

Good Question! Fortunately, the Stormfather is a little more omnipresent. Normally you’re gonna have to have your spren close, but the Stormfather absorbed... is basically Honor’s Cognitive Shadow, which means he’s got a connection to a lot of different things, so he’s not bound by a lot of the rules that others are.

Shadows of Self San Francisco signing (Oct. 9, 2015)

 

So the Stormfather at least is probably safe, and he's the one with the most (apparent) role in the broader rosharan Ecosystem.  The Sibling could like follow the physical tower if it became a space-ship, though I dont knwo what the Light implications of that might be.  Or even if the godspren (that arent bonded with divine ghosts) have any direct effect on the Lights of Roshar rather than just being heavily affected by them.  

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21 hours ago, Cocoa said:

I was giving thought to the logistical difficulties involved in space travel/worldhopping, and one thing that came to mind is that that Rosharans might be adversely affected by something as simple as a lack of highstorms on long voyages. Here we have a planet where everything's evolved in a fairly investiture-rich environment, which we see reflected in things like gemhearts and how plants grow better when given highstorm water.

So what happens when we remove native Rosharans from this environment for long periods of time? Well, I'm guessing that at least for rookie spacers/worldhoppers, they'd begin feeling slightly ill and lethargic from the lack of Light after enough time, even if their actual health isn't in serious danger. I can imagine this being called something like "stormless sickness" or "a case of the dims" or something like that.

I don't think this is a hugely important detail, and I've got no clue if I'm actually onto something or not, but it's fun to think about how the little biological quirks of the various Cosmere peoples would affect their lives outside their native worlds.

But regular rosharans use stormlight only for illumination. They can't even use it unless they are radiant so how will they have withdrawals?

Stormlight used to grow plants, I thought, was because it's hard to grow plants in solid rock and stormlight helps the process. I don't think there is any indication that stormlight grown plant food has stormlight in it, or is any different from normal plant food

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Posted (edited)

16 minutes ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

But regular rosharans use stormlight only for illumination. They can't even use it unless they are radiant so how will they have withdrawals?

Stormlight used to grow plants, I thought, was because it's hard to grow plants in solid rock and stormlight helps the process. I don't think there is any indication that stormlight grown plant food has stormlight in it, or is any different from normal plant food

Rosharans do actually have a higher level of investiture than your average person in the Cosmere, just to how highly saturated their planet is with free investiture. On a small scale it has little impact on individual Rosharans. It would be interesting to have that extra measured in Breaths, but it certainly wouldn't even reach the double digits. But that's a tangent. As I said, individually that extra investiture has very little impact. But on a whole it makes Rosharans less susceptible to disease, which is why plagues are so rare on their world.

Relevant WoB:

Quote

stormfather (paraphrased)

Does the plague on the Purelake has anything to do with the fact that the magic fish form symbiotic bonds with spren?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

No, worldhoppers brought a disease to Roshar that they didn't have before. It's the common cold. Rosharans' Investiture makes it so they're usually a healthy bunch so something like the cold is kind of frightening. "It's a plague of the sniffles."

stormfather [Alternate wording from ZenBossanova's report] (paraphrased)

Another person asked about the plague in the Purelake.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Turns out, that was a pathogen introduced by worldhoppers. People on Roshar normally have greater health than elsewhere in the cosmere because they are more Invested (Stormlight and all that). This plague was what we call… the common cold.

Firefight Phoenix signing (Jan. 21, 2015)

 

Edited by HSuperLee
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5 minutes ago, HSuperLee said:

Rosharans do actually have a higher level of investiture than your average person in the Cosmere, just to how highly saturated their planet is with free investiture. On a small scale it has little impact on individual Rosharans. It would be interesting to have that extra measured in Breaths, but it certainly wouldn't even reach the double digits. But that's a tangent. As I said, individually that extra investiture has very little impact. But on a whole it makes Rosharans less susceptible to disease, which is why plagues are so rare on their world.

Relevant WoB:

 

Interesting, but then this is about their innate investiture that won't be affected by worldhopping, so still no withdrawals i think

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20 hours ago, Morningtide said:

I wonder if people can have an investiture withdrawal. Like can Allomantic savants?

I'd say that they can. Savant Spook was affected rather strongly whenever he ran out of tin.

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Posted (edited)

30 minutes ago, ShardlessVessel said:

I'd say that they can. Savant Spook was affected rather strongly whenever he ran out of tin.

That's true. I'd like to see a detailed version of Allomantic withdrawal on screen sometime

Edited by Morningtide
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