Syladin thoughts

[Maddie The Survivor]

I’ve been thinking, and RoW made Syladin (Syl Kaladin) ship more of a possibility. I am a huge fan, but I don’t typically go and do research. The closest to research I do is watch Shardcasts. 
Well, basically what I want to know are your guy’s opinions on Syladin. 

[Erklitt]

I agree that their relationship has grown a lot in RoW, and that has made me wonder in the same direction.  And I still won't rule it out, but I tend to think it won't happen. 

For physical intimacy to work, Syl would have to become corporeal in the physical realm. And maybe that's part of the 5th ideal, as some have theorized - in that case I totally expect Syladin. However I don't share this theory, and we never saw Nale's spren, afaik.

And a romance where physical intiimacy is forever impossible? That would be a twist, but also a little sad in my opinion. Yet, also not impossible. 

On the whole, I'd give Syladin about a 1/5 chance. Regardless, I love their relationship as it is now!

[Zapata]

5 minutes ago, Erklitt said:

I agree that their relationship has grown a lot in RoW, and that has made me wonder in the same direction.  And I still won't rule it out, but I tend to think it won't happen. 

For physical intimacy to work, Syl would have to become corporeal in the physical realm. And maybe that's part of the 5th ideal, as some have theorized - in that case I totally expect Syladin. However I don't share this theory, and we never saw Nale's spren, afaik.

And a romance where physical intiimacy is forever impossible? That would be a twist, but also a little sad in my opinion. Yet, also not impossible. 

On the whole, I'd give Syladin about a 1/5 chance. Regardless, I love their relationship as it is now!

I'm not a fan of Syladin. However, with Kaladin heading to meet Ishar, there opens up a plausable way of pulling Syl into the Physical Realm. I am not sure how likely it is, but it's possible.

[Returned]

I don't really like the idea of them having a romantic relationship (or any spren and bonded knight), though I wouldn't fault anyone for feeling differently. For me, the Radiant/spren relationship is already pretty deep, meaningful, and specifically focused, and it could easily cheapen it to reduce it down to "now they're dating". It also seems iffy to me given that the process of the bond progressing both deals with overcoming traumas (so severe that they're literally cracks in the soul) and how the spren's ability to think and be an individual largely comes from the bond itself, but that's an "in general" sort of thing. I don't think that those issues would bother me much with Syl and Kaladin, specifically; bond aside, they do seem like a good match personality-wise and they get along nicely.

All that said, I could see it working. Getting to and from Shadesmar is pretty easy now, most of the time, and they could have a regular physical relationship there. The rest of the time would be more like always being on the phone with each other, which plenty of real relationships do, and romance doesn't absolutely require them to physically be in the same place. If Sanderson decides to move their relationship in that direction I think it could be handled well, and the circumstances of SA right now definitely make it possible.

Also relevant:

Quote

Questioner

I know in Shadesmar, Syl has a physical form when they go there. Has there ever been, in the history of Shardbearers, any romance there?

Brandon Sanderson

...I will RAFO that for now. It is a question I have asked.

 

Edited April 14, 2022 by Returned
Added a WoB reference which is relevant

[NameIess]

11 minutes ago, Returned said:

All that said, I could see it working. Getting to and from Shadesmar is pretty easy now, most of the time, and they could have a regular physical relationship there. The rest of the time would be more like always being on the phone with each other, which plenty of real relationships do, and romance doesn't absolutely require them to physically be in the same place. If Sanderson decides to move their relationship in that direction I think it could be handled well, and the circumstances of SA right now definitely make it possible.

I don't think Syl has an actual physical form, even in Shadesmar. She's still made of invesiture, it's just solid in the cognitive realm. And I don't think that Syl has any desire for a physical relationship.

[StormingTexan]

I get why people want to see this happen but to me it just feels like Peter Pan and Tinker Bell hooking up lol. 

 

[The Sibling]

Yeah, I feel like this would be really unnescesary because Kaladin and Syl have such a great relationship already. I've always felt like their relationship has been about frienship and chosen family, not romance. I feel like romance would send the relationship in a whole new direction. That might be interesting, but I don't think that it would feel right. That said, I do hope Kaladin finds love eventually. 

[Maddie The Survivor]

When I meant fan earlier I meant of the books, if I confused anyone.

I would personally rather Kaladin to be with someone who isn’t a spren. Though, I wouldn’t be angry if Syladin became a thing. 
It would make any relationships for Kaladin less likely in the next book, mainly because of the time constraint in SA #5.
 

18 minutes ago, StormingTexan said:

I get why people want to see this happen but to me it just feels like Peter Pan and Tinker Bell hooking up lol. 

 

Yea, that’s what it really feels like. 

Edited April 7, 2022 by Maddie The Survivor

[Returned]

On 4/7/2022 at 0:00 PM, Nameless said:

I don't think Syl has an actual physical form, even in Shadesmar. She's still made of invesiture, it's just solid in the cognitive realm. And I don't think that Syl has any desire for a physical relationship.

Yes, she explicitly does:

Quote

Syl's arms enfolded him from behind, and he felt softness as her cheek pressed against the back of his neck. She pulled him tight as he wept, sobbing at his failure. (RoW, page 1130)

Even outside of that, all other spren seem to have tangible, physical form in Shadesmar, bonded or otherwise. And we know that honorspren do as well, evidenced by Notum being stabbed nearly to death and honorspren restraining Adolin at his trial. Honorsprens' forms seem to be fixed, such as their clothing being made of their substance. Whether or not they have specific physical features, organs, etc. is unknown, but not really relevant to a relationship having a physical component.

As for whether or not she wants a given relationship doesn't seem to ever matter for shipping. Either way, I'm not a fan of the pairing.

Edited July 18, 2022 by Returned

[NameIess]

3 minutes ago, Returned said:

Yes, she explicitly does:

Even outside of that, all other spren seem to have tangible, physical form in Shadesmar, bonded or otherwise. And we know that honorspren do as well, evidenced by Notum being stabbed nearly to death and honorspren restraining Adolin at his trial. Honorspren's forms seem to be fixed, such as their clothing being made of their substance. Whether or not they have specific physical features, organs, etc. is unknown, but not really relevant to a relationship having a physical component. As for whether or not she wants a given relationship doesn't seem to ever matter for shipping.

Sorry, I was unspecific. Syl has never displayed any desire for a sexual relationship.

[Returned]

1 minute ago, Nameless said:

Sorry, I was unspecific. Syl has never displayed any desire for a sexual relationship.

I agree; it seems unlikely that it would be a component of Syl and Kaladin's relationship even if it did turn romantic.

[Frustration]

I have one thought: NO!

Syl is in many acspects a child and it's so wrong.

[Rg2045]

Thought? Could it work? Maybe? Brandon is talented enough to pull it off. Do I think he’s going that direction? Maybe? Remember the story of the queen and the moon?

[HSuperLee]

Interspecies relationship will always weird me out. Heck, I'm a massive comic book fan and yet even the idea of a Superman and Lois Lane relationship has always bothered me a bit, and he's basically just human with extra abilities. The idea of a spren/human relationship just seems like a whole series of red flags to me. So call me a cynic, but I can't find myself imagining a situation where it actually works.

[Shardsplinter]

On 7/4/2022 at 2:32 PM, StormingTexan said:

I get why people want to see this happen but to me it just feels like Peter Pan and Tinker Bell hooking up lol. 

 

Well, I'm pretty sure a lot of people interpret Tinkerbell's charachter as in love or at least having a crush on Peter Pan in the original play/novel and maybe even in some of the more recent movies. Personally that's my headcanon but assuming fairies experience love in a different way that humans can't understand. In general I like it when non human beings have non human emotions but emotions nontheless and perfectly valid, just different. That gets me to the subject at matter.

My first question would be, have we been shown spren engaging in romantic and/or sexual relations of any kind among themselfs? It would strike me as odd for them to do this only with humans.

My second thought is that if they engage in any kind of relationship it's probably quite different from human relationships and almost all of them would experience feelings if at all, quite different from us. That being said, we have been told on several occasions that Honorspren are the ones that resemble humans the most and I think we have also seen them imitating human traits, so I think they're the most likely to engage in a humanlike relationship (possibly to a human) and to fall in love.

Now, for the specifics of Syladin. Like I said, it's a possibility, but I don't think we have been given much foreshadowing. Their relationship strikes me more like that of siblings. They care deeply for each other, look out for one another and share a very strong literal Bond; but I don't see much romance going on and no sexual tension whatsoever. If Syladin were to happen I wouldn't be shocked but I don't think is likely and would actually prefer if it didn't.

 

.....Howeeeeever when it comes to the ship, I think it's a great ship. It was pretty much unavoidable. Probability and possibility shouldn't be factors that prevent someone from shipping. If you enjoy it, Ship it! 

I also think it's important to be respectful of other people's ships ( as long as those ships are respectful of the charachters we all love)

 

Wow that got rather long

Tl;dr:

1- I would prefer if spren didn't have emotions/relationships in the same way humans do.

2- If one type had, it would probably be Honorspren.

3- Syladin romance strikes me as unlikely but not impossible.

4- I read Syladin more like siblings.

5- Despite that, it's a great ship.

6- If you enjoy it, Ship away!

 

[Anomander Rake]

On 4/7/2022 at 11:37 PM, HSuperLee said:

Interspecies relationship will always weird me out. Heck, I'm a massive comic book fan and yet even the idea of a Superman and Lois Lane relationship has always bothered me a bit, and he's basically just human with extra abilities. The idea of a spren/human relationship just seems like a whole series of red flags to me. So call me a cynic, but I can't find myself imagining a situation where it actually works.

Have you read / seen Invincible? hooooh boy

Spoiler

Omni-man, whose lifespan is on the order of thousands of years, sees his earth wife as no more than a temporary pet, blegh

But yeah, Frustration captured my thoughts on this pretty well - NO!  The current state of their relationship is great for the both of them - platonic, but intimate in emotional and spiritual ways that help them both grow and endure.

[HSuperLee]

26 minutes ago, Anomander Rake said:

Have you read / seen Invincible? hooooh boy

  Reveal hidden contents

Omni-man, whose lifespan is on the order of thousands of years, sees his earth wife as no more than a temporary pet, blegh

But yeah, Frustration captured my thoughts on this pretty well - NO!  The current state of their relationship is great for the both of them - platonic, but intimate in emotional and spiritual ways that help them both grow and endure.

Yes, I have read and seen Invincible. Its my favorite comic series, so I own every issue. That series could darn well be a case study on why interspecies romances don't work. You gave an example from the show, so I'm going to assume you haven't read the full series, so I'll just say this: What you mentioned is no where near as bad as it gets. Interspecies romance, especially when there are significantly disparate lifespans, lead to problems.

[Anomander Rake]

14 minutes ago, HSuperLee said:

Yes, I have read and seen Invincible. Its my favorite comic series, so I own every issue. That series could darn well be a case study on why interspecies romances don't work. You gave an example from the show, so I'm going to assume you haven't read the full series, so I'll just say this: What you mentioned is no where near as bad as it gets. Interspecies romance, especially when there are significantly disparate lifespans, lead to problems.

Some earlier issues of The Walking Dead still earn it the title of favorite from me, also I just like its art a bit better, but seems like we can agree Kirkman is a legend lol.

I've read most of it!  I'm not entirely caught up, stopped for a bit after starting a new job, on 120ish I think? just figured the show example would reach a bigger audience.  But yeah no believe me I follow, some big yikes moments there.

Spoiler

random, and I forget the kids name, but Mark's blue tinted brother always has me weak lol

 

Edited April 18, 2022 by Anomander Rake

[KaladinWorldsinger]

16 hours ago, HSuperLee said:

That series could darn well be a case study on why interspecies romances don't work.

Aren't there a loot of interspecies romances that work out in Invincible? What are you talking about?

[TruthwatcherDan]

Go directly to damnation, do not pass go, do not collect $200 spheres! 

I am not a Stan of Syladin; we haven’t seen any romantic or sexual attraction between spren or spren and humans, in my opinion it’s not something they have capacity for. I suspect platonic relationships is all they’re capable of

Spren and friends, not … buddies! 

[The Sibling]

I think that spren and humans would be totally capable of romantic and sexual stuff, but I just don't see it happening between Syl and Kaladin.

[OathSinger]

I'm unsure if I'm committed to Syladin. It seems a very natural line of thinking because of the closeness that oaths create between spren and their radiants. Syl shows a devotion to Kaladin and a concern for his well-being that is likely motivated by some feelings for him. Not necessarily romantic feelings. Love, in my experience, is not confined to a romantic relationship and can be expressed in many different ways. With that consideration, I am more swayed towards a Syladin relationship being more like chosen family. 

Oaths may bind them but that does not mean they have to be romanticly involved. In my mind, Kaladin's and Syl's relationship is very touching and has some qualities that can be found in a healthy relationship, namely loyalty, commitment, and, I'd venture to say, love. (Again, Love is not necessarily romantic)

[twenty second of the sun]

In all honesty I have no strong feelings either way regarding syladin, however in the interest of entertaining the possibility I have been listening to a podcast were one of the main couples is between essentially frankesteins monster and a ghost , the point being they are explicitly romantic without the possibility of physical intimacy . This is different however as there are undoubtedly some cosmere shenanigans that would allow for that, but I don’t think there needs to ( this goes for all spren x human/listener) be a blanket throwing out for that possibility I just don’t think the relationship between syl and kaladin needs to be a romantic one but I do think romantic spren x physical beings will eventually happen, but I would personally prefer if spren if they desired romantic connection sought that out in someone they weren’t bonded to so tightly, since they need that bond to be sapient 

[Duxredux]

I've seen the theory that Siah Aimians are Honorspren successfully transitioned to the Physical Realm where they were able to create hybrid offspring with humans seen in the people of Natanatan. The characteristics of Siah Aimians is really reminiscent of Honorspren, especially with what we have learned in Rhythm of War. If that is the case, Axies the Collector seems to be able to function just fine and doesn't appear to need to be bonded to a human in close proximity to himself to remain sapient. If Syl can become functionally like Axies, then you just have the issue with immortality. It may be viable for Syl to become her own, independent, mature being in the Physical Realm separate from a Nahel bond with Kaladin. If this happens, then I'm guessing Kaladin would probably have to retire and settle down if his abilities are at all tied to physical proximity to Syl, and if Syl can't fly anymore. Bringing her into combat situations with Anti-Stormlight is way, way dangerous when Kaladin probably can't summon her as a Sylspear. The current relationship and format just seems weird and unbalanced in the context of a romance.

I think Brandon probably knew the fandom would look in the direction of Syladin the moment he decided to make her appear full size when she remembers that she is an Honorspren and Kaladin decides to rescue Dalinar. Someone at Dragonsteel or the one of the alpha readers had to have thought of it, right? That isn't to say it's what's going to happen considering Wax and Marasi.

In the end I'm not sure where I stand on Syladin, because if it happened I'd expect to be as weird as (Mistborn spoiler)

Spoiler

Wayne and MeLaan.

Okay, maybe not that weird, but you get the idea. Either outcome wouldn't really surprise me. If Syladin becomes a thing, I definitely want her to have developed into a fully matured individual, mentally and emotionally. If Syladin doesn't become a thing and they still remain best friends, I'd be just fine with that. If Syl or Kaladin die, I might cry, but I'd trust Brandon to make it satisfying to the readers, though I would probably still hate it without any impact whatsoever on if I keep reading.

Edited June 10, 2022 by Duxredux
added another thought

[LordFlea]

I feel like Kal and Syl have a different bond then a romantic one. They're both bonded by trauma and a shared connection for helping and protecting people. They've always felt closer to two soldiers/comrades in arms that would go to hell and back for each other. They definitely love each other but in a platonic way