Battle of champions. (I spent way too much time thinking about this topic, and here is the result)

[TruthwatcherDan]

On 04/04/2022 at 7:05 AM, slavagh said:

The third option is the one I want to speculate on the most. Who will be Dalinar’s champion if not himself?

 

Dalinar is the most appropriate in terms of power loading if he can learn more about being a Bondsmith from a sane Ishar. But in ten days? I'm not quite sold he can master his skills in such a short time span, even with the help of a Herald. 

I agree Kaladin is the alternative option, he has more experience with surgebinding, is a natural warrior, has the nature of a reluctant hero. If so he will be the champion out of need or forced into the position through circumstance. The other option no one seems to suggest is Taln, who as a main character, has kind of just been hanging around. If Ishar can be healed of his mental wounds, so too can Taln IMO.

In terms of (T)Odiums champion, there are so many options. One I've been looking at recently is...

Spoiler

Chanarach, given her recent focus in the fandom recently... I have two main reasons for this:

• The story of Fleet as told by Wit foreshadows Kaladin vs. Chanarach
  • Fleet was famous for defeating Chanarach in a race.
  • Fleet resembles Kaladin both physically and in spirit (persevering despite all odds)
  • The geographic path of Fleets race somewhat matches up with Kaladin's current day movements and focus in the series: Shattered Plains -> Kholinar -> the highest peaks and coldest mounts (Uruthuru) -> Azir (maybe book 5?) -> Shinovar (most likely in book 5)
  • Now the sad part, Fleet makes it to Shinovar and "his body dead, but not his will, within those winds his soul did rise" i.e., Kaladin wins, but dies in the process and becomes a cognitive shadow.
• The recent focus on Chanarach after the prologue to book 5
  • There is a lot of speculation around her current whereabouts, and future in the series. Herald-mother being the most talked about; there's been mention Chanarach started the True Desolation when she died, and potentially made a deal with Odium (shes insane, her daughter just killed her, she wanted off Braize and out or Roshar etc.)
  • We know she will play some role in SA5, imagine her as (T)Odiums champion and the conflict that would inflict on our characters (Namely, Shallan)
  • Foreshadowing: "I should liked to have seen her in battle"... sorry Gavilar, you might not be around to see it, but we certainly might!
  • Chanarach has the Surge of Division, the conceptual opposite of Connection (Chanarach vs. Dalinar?) and a somewhat distorted opposite to Adhesion (Chanarach vs. Kaladin). 

I guess time will tell!

[Radiant-Twinborn]

Ok I have been thinking about this for a long time. I have a few guesses of how all of this can play out in Stormlight 5. These might have been said by other people, but this is what I think. 

-Dalinar dies and the world of Roshar gets swept up into a Cosmere wide war. 

-Dalinar looses the fight, but finds a way to get out of the deal. 

Some how he finds a way to pick of the pieces of Honor and basically use that power to beat Odium's champion. 

-Some crazy thing happens with other Shards, and Taragangian breaks the deal. 

-Szeth is the Champion and uses Nightblood to beat the snot out of Odium's Champion. 

 

Well these are only some of my crazy ideas. I but Brando will totally fly over all of these and surprise us all. All I know, is that there will be a HORRIBLE cliff-hanger at the end of Stormlight 5, and Arc 1. Because Sanderson loves to do that. 

[slavagh]

19 hours ago, Letryx13 said:

Szeth is the flashback character, I think. Which honestly is all the more reason why I think he'll be the champion.

Spoiler

AdelRD

Who will be the main interlude character in Stormlight Five?

Brandon Sanderson

Stormlight Five is Szeth as the main interlude character. Flashbacks of Szeth's childhood intermixed with Szeth in the modern day.

Considering how good Moash, Eshonai, and Taravangian were in interludes, Szeth's story will be satisfying. Champion is a solid possibility, but my gut feeling is that his arc will end in Shinovar.

14 hours ago, TruthwatcherDan said:

I agree Kaladin is the alternative option, he has more experience with surgebinding, is a natural warrior, has the nature of a reluctant hero. If so he will be the champion out of need or forced into the position through circumstance. The other option no one seems to suggest is Taln, who as a main character, has kind of just been hanging around. If Ishar can be healed of his mental wounds, so too can Taln IMO.

I think the contest will be without surgebinding. What stops Odium to give some insane abilities to his champion? The idea of suppressing radiant and fused powers was already introduced in RoW.

9 hours ago, Radiant-Twinborn said:

-Some crazy thing happens with other Shards, and Taragangian breaks the deal.

I keep forgetting about Cultivation. She is the wild card and I have no idea how she will impact Book 5. 

[Letryx13]

On 4/3/2022 at 5:05 PM, slavagh said:

The weird thing about the setup of this battle is how relatively low the stakes are. No matter the outcome, Dalinar has already won. (Even Wit said that to Odium). The stakes basically are Alethkar, Herdas, and Dalinar’s soul. For us, the audience, the stakes are whether one of the heroes that we care about can die.  When Taravangian took the shard, the stakes for Odium became even lower. His goal was always to save Roshar and now he basically has the power to end this war. For him, the outcome of this fight is even more meaningless than for Raise.

I have a theory.  I'm pretty sure that the important part of the terms is that Odium has to return Alethkar and Herdaz if he loses.  That he has to commit to a very specific action.

On 4/3/2022 at 5:05 PM, slavagh said:

Chapter Terms has this interesting bit:

 “What happens, Odium, if you break your word.”

“Then the contract is void, and I am in your power. Same, but reversed, if you break the contract. You would be in my power, and the restrictions Honor placed upon me—chaining me to the Rosharan system and preventing me from using my powers on most individuals—would be void. But that is not going to happen, and I am not going to break my word. Because if I did, it would create a hole in my soul—which would let Cultivation kill me.

I made my own post about this a while back. If you combine the two above points with a little imagination, you might see the way to defeat Odium permanently, despite what Taravangian says about being satisfied no matter what the outcome.  The important points are that if Dalinar or his champion wins, Odium has to return Alethkar and Herdaz and second, if Odium breaks his word, he is in Dalinar's power.  

Well, if Odium doesn't control Alethkar or Herdaz when the contest is over, then he will be unable to return them, essentially having committed to an act that he can't perform.  Which would be a promise broken, placing him under Dalinar's power.  And Dalinar could command him to return to Braize and never communicated, influence or otherwise interact with anyone ever again.

Edited April 9, 2022 by Letryx13

[Master Silver]

If Taravangian wasn't so convinced of his brilliance, I could see Taravangian just being honest with Dalinar. Shows up, say dude, I already killed him. I told you everything I did was for the love of my city. But there is a real threat out in what is called the Cosmere. I need you to release me from the system and care for the Singers while I am away. And with that brutal honesty Taravangian wins. Before Hoid can get there Dalinar releases him.

[slavagh]

20 hours ago, Letryx13 said:

I made my own post about this a while back. If you combine the two above points with a little imagination, you might see the way to defeat Odium permanently, despite what Taravangian says about being satisfied no matter what the outcome.  The important points are that if Dalinar or his champion wins, Odium has to return Alethkar and Herdaz and second, if Odium breaks his word, he is in Dalinar's power.  

Well, if Odium doesn't control Alethkar or Herdaz when the contest is over, then he will be unable to return them, essentially having committed to an act that he can't perform.  Which would be a promise broken, placing him under Dalinar's power.  And Dalinar could command him to return to Braize and never communicated, influence or otherwise interact with anyone ever again.

I agree that the most poetic way to defeat TOdium is to outsmart him. But I am a bit skeptical that by the end of Book 5 the Odium threat is done. I believe the Cosmere wide stuff is beyond the Stormlight series, and that will leave us with Cultivation as the main threat. Though she does have some appeal as the villain. She is not evil but detached from everything human. The Radiants (who play with powers that destroyed their previous planet) vs the goddess of Nature is quite appealing.

5 hours ago, Master Silver said:

If Taravangian wasn't so convinced of his brilliance, I could see Taravangian just being honest with Dalinar. Shows up, say dude, I already killed him. I told you everything I did was for the love of my city. But there is a real threat out in what is called the Cosmere. I need you to release me from the system and care for the Singers while I am away. And with that brutal honesty Taravangian wins. Before Hoid can get there Dalinar releases him.

Lol. Honesty is seriously his best strategy.

[psc92]

On 4/3/2022 at 5:05 PM, slavagh said:

The third option is the one I want to speculate on the most. Who will be Dalinar’s champion if not himself?

A while ago I typed up a post on this topic, but i deleted it before posting it becuase it became too long, meandering and I didn't like the way it turned out, but I'll post a shorter and hopefully better version of it here.

Brief introduction to my thought process here, when making predictions about future events I try to put myself in the writer's shoes and make these predicitons based on these:

1. What makes the most sense for the narrative?

2. What would be the most narratively satisfying? ("Good guys win" and "Good guys lose" can both be narratively satisfying as long as they are executed well)

I created this theory when thinking about the biggest plot points that would need to be resolved in Stormlight 5, one of which is arguably the biggest chekhov's guns remaining in the series: where is Taln's Honorblade? In the same way that Kaladin's 4th Ideal had to be resolved in RoW, Taln's Honorblade needs to be resolved in Stormlight 5. The most narratively satisfying way to resolve this mystery, would be to have Taln, reunited with his Honorblade (and hopefully with his sanity), be Dalinar's champion.

A couple other points: we know that one of the main plots in Stormlight 5 will be Kaladin and Szeth traveling to Shinovar to try and figure out how to restore the Heralds' sanity. And also in RoW, the Stormfather told Dalinar (the person who will be picking his champion) rather emphatically that Taln was the best fighter among the heralds. This is a story, not real life, Brandon put that line in there for a reason.

I have no idea who Odium's champion will be, but I'm pretty sure we are going to have a "good guys lose ending" which means that Dalinar's champion will lose. If Taln is the Champion, he absolutely could lose since Odium's side will have access to anti-stormlight weapons. And if he does lose I think it sets up his character arc nicely for the back 5 since he will be one of the main flashback characters.

Even if Taln is not the champion I 100% believe that his Honorblade will show up in Stormlight 5 and that Taln will have something important to do.

[Letryx13]

9 hours ago, Master Silver said:

If Taravangian wasn't so convinced of his brilliance, I could see Taravangian just being honest with Dalinar. Shows up, say dude, I already killed him. I told you everything I did was for the love of my city. But there is a real threat out in what is called the Cosmere. I need you to release me from the system and care for the Singers while I am away. And with that brutal honesty Taravangian wins. Before Hoid can get there Dalinar releases him.

As entertaining as that conversation would be, I doubt many people would be able to do that. But I do think that Taravangian will end up revealing himself at a specific moment in an effort to sway Dalinar. Maybe even presenting himself as someone trying to do what Gavilar did.

4 hours ago, slavagh said:

I agree that the most poetic way to defeat TOdium is to outsmart him. But I am a bit skeptical that by the end of Book 5 the Odium threat is done. I believe the Cosmere wide stuff is beyond the Stormlight series, and that will leave us with Cultivation as the main threat. Though she does have some appeal as the villain. She is not evil but detached from everything human. The Radiants (who play with powers that destroyed their previous planet) vs the goddess of Nature is quite appealing.

Considering that spren are partly made up from Cultivation's power, and the possible plot line of her passing the power to Lift, I doubt Cultivation will ever be a true adversary to the Radiants. But I do agree that she might be something of a complicating force in the future. She seems to be the type to plan things out patiently, waiting for the exact moment to make her moves. That doesn't seem to be the type to engage in direct conflict as an antagonist.

Also, another point. The other way I can think of to defeat Odium would be to turn the singers against him.  The only way I can see that happening however, is if Rayse was somehow behind the whole scheme of turning Singers into Parshmen in the first place, and if that secret were revealed.  I posted a theory about this a while back too.

44 minutes ago, psc92 said:

I created this theory when thinking about the biggest plot points that would need to be resolved in Stormlight 5, one of which is arguably the biggest chekhov's guns remaining in the series: where is Taln's Honorblade? In the same way that Kaladin's 4th Ideal had to be resolved in RoW, Taln's Honorblade needs to be resolved in Stormlight 5. The most narratively satisfying way to resolve this mystery, would be to have Taln, reunited with his Honorblade (and hopefully with his sanity), be Dalinar's champion.

A couple other points: we know that one of the main plots in Stormlight 5 will be Kaladin and Szeth traveling to Shinovar to try and figure out how to restore the Heralds' sanity. And also in RoW, the Stormfather told Dalinar (the person who will be picking his champion) rather emphatically that Taln was the best fighter among the heralds. This is a story, not real life, Brandon put that line in there for a reason.

I have no idea who Odium's champion will be, but I'm pretty sure we are going to have a "good guys lose ending" which means that Dalinar's champion will lose. If Taln is the Champion, he absolutely could lose since Odium's side will have access to anti-stormlight weapons. And if he does lose I think it sets up his character arc nicely for the back 5 since he will be one of the main flashback characters.

Even if Taln is not the champion I 100% believe that his Honorblade will show up in Stormlight 5 and that Taln will have something important to do.

Taln being the champion would be good, considering that Dalinar himself belongs to the devotary that follows Taln.  And considering that his willpower (and possibly some supernatural shenanigans) was strong enough to last 4500 years of torture.  

I might be wrong on this, but I don't think it's going to be a "good guys lose ending".  Most of the first two books didn't directly relate to the Honor vs. Odium conflict, but were still fantastic stories. I think using the Roshar setting to deal with other types of conflicts could be good. Like the Hierocracy returning, or trying to establish equality between humans and singers. Things like that. On top of that, we still haven't seen all the Shards, and one of them could easily start making trouble on Roshar. 

I don't think it's going to be a perfectly happy, sunshiny type of victory, but I think things will be hopeful for those that survive. 

[TruthwatcherDan]

7 hours ago, psc92 said:

where is Taln's Honorblade?

I think Hoid has it to play as a wildcard in the future… during interlude 7 of Words of Radiance, Bordin mentions that Wit escorted him and Taln on their journey to the Shattered Plains… interestingly Chanarach features as one of the Chapter Icons in this interlude as well. Coincidence or…

 

[psc92]

2 hours ago, TruthwatcherDan said:

I think Hoid has it to play as a wildcard in the future… during interlude 7 of Words of Radiance, Bordin mentions that Wit escorted him and Taln on their journey to the Shattered Plains… interestingly Chanarach features as one of the Chapter Icons in this interlude as well. Coincidence or…

 

Hoid does not have it, and he was not the one who switched it out. Brandon has 100% confirmed this, however he has let slip that Hoid may have had it at one point. Whoever does have it is probably someone that Hoid is ok with having it though.

[Master Silver]

What blade is Dalinar going to use for the duel? He can't use a dead eye.... so... revive Oathbringer like Adolin is doing??

[slavagh]

18 hours ago, Letryx13 said:

Also, another point. The other way I can think of to defeat Odium would be to turn the singers against him.  The only way I can see that happening however, is if Rayse was somehow behind the whole scheme of turning Singers into Parshmen in the first place, and if that secret were revealed.  I posted a theory about this a while back too.

That is actually a great point. Defeating the Shards not through some loophole or direct fight, but by rejecting them as a god. The "fight for the hearts of men" as Odium said it. And I think you are right about singers and humans making amends. If both humans and singers reject Odium, he is done. But it most likely will be the endgame of Book 10, not Book 5.

19 hours ago, psc92 said:

I created this theory when thinking about the biggest plot points that would need to be resolved in Stormlight 5, one of which is arguably the biggest chekhov's guns remaining in the series: where is Taln's Honorblade? In the same way that Kaladin's 4th Ideal had to be resolved in RoW, Taln's Honorblade needs to be resolved in Stormlight 5. The most narratively satisfying way to resolve this mystery, would be to have Taln, reunited with his Honorblade (and hopefully with his sanity), be Dalinar's champion.

A couple other points: we know that one of the main plots in Stormlight 5 will be Kaladin and Szeth traveling to Shinovar to try and figure out how to restore the Heralds' sanity. And also in RoW, the Stormfather told Dalinar (the person who will be picking his champion) rather emphatically that Taln was the best fighter among the heralds. This is a story, not real life, Brandon put that line in there for a reason.

I have no idea who Odium's champion will be, but I'm pretty sure we are going to have a "good guys lose ending" which means that Dalinar's champion will lose. If Taln is the Champion, he absolutely could lose since Odium's side will have access to anti-stormlight weapons. And if he does lose I think it sets up his character arc nicely for the back 5 since he will be one of the main flashback characters.

Even if Taln is not the champion I 100% believe that his Honorblade will show up in Stormlight 5 and that Taln will have something important to do.

Agree about a "good guys lose ending".But it won't be a total defeat. Just a position that is slightly worse than before with a glimmer of hope for the future.

Taln is probably the best choice for the champion. But my pick will be one of the current main characters. It is more narratively satisfying. It is a huge plot point that should be resolved by the characters that we are attached to. Taln will most likely replace Kaladin in the back five as the main character. I think he will be "cured" by the end of Book 5, but not much more.

7 hours ago, Master Silver said:

What blade is Dalinar going to use for the duel? He can't use a dead eye.... so... revive Oathbringer like Adolin is doing??

Don't think there is much time for Oathbringer's revival. Maybe he will wield a Honorblade or Nightblood. Maybe he can summon part of Stormfather essence. Maybe you can't use the shard in the fight and both sides will use regular weapons.

[Master Silver]

In terms of time to revive a dead eye. Dalinar just started/actual did form an intentional connection between Kaladin and his brother in the spiritual realm. Perhaps because of his familiarity with Oathbringer he will be able to pull an Ishar and say, I will take this oath upon myself. If the spren is already locked as a blade, would saying just the first oath work or would he need the first 3 oaths of stonewards?

[+Cyprian Wiley]

So About the Battle of Champions.
I see two options.
1. The whole Book will be before the battle and the Battle will pretty much be the end of the first 5 books = LATE
2. The battle will take place pretty early in the book. = EARLY 
If you watch Brandons lectures he talks about promises in a story and that not fulfilling them tends to be a bad thing. So making the readers expect an awesome battle of champions and not giving it to them seems wrong for me and that is why I ignore that hypothetical possibility.

EARLY: everything is open after that. we have no idea and the outcome will change everything. So it does not really matter who fights it. It probably will be a battle between two characters we already know and who are pretty much the same as we left them in RoW. 
In that case, I like the idea of Kaladin vs. Adolin, because Adolin already showed, that he is capable of killing out of hatred (in some sense at least). It would be an awesome fight, but it still seems unplausible for Adolin to turn to Odium.

LATE: We have ten days for character development and change. But at the same time we only have 10 days to solve a few mysteries that should be solved or people might be annoyed.
Two examples:
Kaladin 5th Ideal
Shallans Truth
Where is Vasher?

And all of that might have huge implications on who will fight or what ending, we as readers might prefer.
Kaladins last ideal might be about protecting others by sacrificing himself. I´d compare it to the 8th gate of death from Naruto. A huge power boost, but you pay with your life (and/or maybe even your Sprens life) for it. Or what if instead of Shallans mother, Shallan is actually an Herald herself but coped with the crazyness by becoming Shallan. 
Both are not serious theories, I just want to point out want kind of Plot Twists are possible before the battle.
With enough flashbacks, many characters and a complicated battle, ten days can be enough to fill the book.

This brings  me to my theory about the Champions. 
We have two main characters from the start. They have different opinions of good and evil / wrong and right.
Shallan and Kaladin. Brandon could make us root for both. Kaladin fights for Dalinar and Shallan, after finding out the truth fights, for Taravodium.

We can also have a good and bad ending at the same time. Depending on the viewpoint. Good for Roshar but bad for the Cosmere or bad for Roshar and good for the Cosmere.
You could have Kaladin swearing the fifth ideal and still killing himself and loosing the battle to protect the whole Cosmere in some sense but also sacrificing Roshar in the process. After that Shallan starts travelling the Cosmere. It makes the most sense for me having to main characters as Champions. Would you be satified if it cas Vasher vs El or some random combination? Probably not. And the least random thing would be the clash of our two main viewpoints and maybe even them working together to find the best Solution for everyone. (Because Shallan, as Spy could betray Odium and the readers by acting as a double agent. Make her turn to Odium believable but betraying him at the end.)
So my guess is Kaladin vs Shallan.

 

[RedBlue]

On 09/04/2022 at 5:21 PM, Master Silver said:

If Taravangian wasn't so convinced of his brilliance, I could see Taravangian just being honest with Dalinar. Shows up, say dude, I already killed him. I told you everything I did was for the love of my city. But there is a real threat out in what is called the Cosmere. I need you to release me from the system and care for the Singers while I am away. And with that brutal honesty Taravangian wins. Before Hoid can get there Dalinar releases him.

I think it’s very likely a conversation like this will happen. It just won’t actually end in Dalinar releasing Odium, since that would be a weird anticlimax.

Taravangian and Dalinar have been ideological foils for each other since OB, and their conflicting views on morality and leadership inform both of their characters. I have no doubt that they will try to talk each other around at some point in SA5.

[apepi]

I don't think Rayse had a huge plan, he seemed like he wanted to just somehow win in the duel.

But Taravangian? He's going to have a plan. I think what he is going to do is make it a tie, the rules don't stipulate what happens in a tie. We had a whole Hoid chapter about how he won an unwinnable game by making it a tie, I think that is some foreshadowing.

I would like Dalinar to not be his own champion, idk, it would just feel wierd if he chose himself. I would like him to pick Adolin, it would show that he thinks Adolin is good, and better than him. We have seen through this whole series how good of a duelist Adolin is. It would be good for it to come full circle and have him duel.

[slavagh]

19 hours ago, Master Silver said:

In terms of time to revive a dead eye. Dalinar just started/actual did form an intentional connection between Kaladin and his brother in the spiritual realm. Perhaps because of his familiarity with Oathbringer he will be able to pull an Ishar and say, I will take this oath upon myself. If the spren is already locked as a blade, would saying just the first oath work or would he need the first 3 oaths of stonewards?

I think after releasing Mishram, the first oath will suffice. But it's just a guess.

 

8 hours ago, apepi said:

I would like Dalinar to not be his own champion, idk, it would just feel wierd if he chose himself. I would like him to pick Adolin, it would show that he thinks Adolin is good, and better than him. We have seen through this whole series how good of a duelist Adolin is. It would be good for it to come full circle and have him duel.

It will be a nice way to end their conflict. Probably the most satisfying end of  Adolin's arc.

9 hours ago, Cyprian Wiley said:

This brings  me to my theory about the Champions. 
We have two main characters from the start. They have different opinions of good and evil / wrong and right.
Shallan and Kaladin. Brandon could make us root for both. Kaladin fights for Dalinar and Shallan, after finding out the truth fights, for Taravodium.

To be honest I never even considered Shallan. It will be odd if Shallan, as the main character, doesn't have any involvement in the fight. Shallan vs Kaladin is interesting in the sense that Kaladin won't hurt her in any circumstances and she is able to outsmart him. But my gut feeling is that her involvement will be crucial in the setup of the fight. Gaining some crucial advantage for the good guys. 

[Returned]

I think that a really major issue which impacts the thinking I've seen in this thread is that the contest of champions is going to be the only "climax" conflict in SA5. I do not think this will be the case. Especially since SA5 will finish the whole first section of SA we're in for an epic, action-packed climax which involves pretty much everyone, not unlike the end of Oathbringer.

So ideas of "X character needs to be involved in the contest because leaving them out will be bad for narrative reasons" seems too limiting to me, especially since we don't even know exactly what the contest will be. The contest itself is either going to be irrelevant somehow, or it's going to be part of a massive series of events. Any major character not involved in the contest directly is going to have something similarly important and exciting going on elsewhere. No one is going to get short shrift in the climax of SA Phase 1.

I've outlined elsewhere on the forum why I think the contest can't be decisive anyways, and so from my perspective it's a lot less important if the best-suited characters are involved at all or even if the contest takes place as Dalinar intends. So simply that a character has been a "main" character so far doesn't seem like a strong argument to me all on its own.

[TruthwatcherDan]

8 minutes ago, slavagh said:

It will be odd if Shallan, as the main character, doesn't have any involvement in the fight.

I think that if mother-herald comes true, Chanarach being involved in the battle of the champions is a nice way to tie Shallan into the battle while forcing her to confront her past. Narratively it works. 

I really don’t see any of our Radiants or other “good guys” fighting on behalf of Odium, no matter how manipulative Todium is.

Malata is an interesting option for Todiums champion that no one seems to consider… we haven’t seen her in battle but she seems like a bit of a boss to me! It doesn’t really fit narratively but I’d love to see a Dustbringer in action, if not Chanarach.

Also, what’s the deal with El? Doesn’t hear rhythms, “replaces” his carapace with metal, doesn’t seem phased that his title was given to a human… I’m convinced he’s actually human but the question is… if so then who was he before turning to the dark side?

 

[TruthwatcherDan]

8 minutes ago, Returned said:

 

I think that a really major issue which impacts the thinking I've seen in this thread is that the contest of champions is going to be the only "climax" conflict in SA5. I do not think this will be the case.

 

I agree with you on this one… Brandon has said that the narrative structure in this one is going to be different to anything he’s done in previous books. Hopefully we get Battle of the Champions early, and then something even more mind blowing as a mic drop finisher. 

[Letryx13]

3 hours ago, TruthwatcherDan said:

I really don’t see any of our Radiants or other “good guys” fighting on behalf of Odium, no matter how manipulative Todium is.

I don't think it will happen, but I think he could possibly manipulate Adolin's anger at his father into controlling him. Unlikely, but possible.

3 hours ago, TruthwatcherDan said:

I agree with you on this one… Brandon has said that the narrative structure in this one is going to be different to anything he’s done in previous books. Hopefully we get Battle of the Champions early, and then something even more mind blowing as a mic drop finisher. 

If I had to guess, much of the structure will be the exact same time from different character's perspectives.  Until now, even as we've gone from one character's perspective to another's, the story has always gone in one direction. Forward. There are times when the exact time lineup is unclear, but for the most part, the story keeps moving forward.

 If it were me, writing about such a short time frame of ten days, I'd write one part of it from Kaladin and Szeth's perspective in Shinovar. Then go back to the first day and tell it from Adolin and Shalan's maybe helping more dead eye spren.  And then go back again and tell it from Dalinar and Nvani's perspective, preparing in Uritheru.  You get the idea.

Having said that, having the champion battle earlier than the grand finale with something even bigger afterward would be a good twist.  But given all the buildup to the champion contest, that's a very tall order.

Edited April 12, 2022 by Letryx13

[KaladinWorldsinger]

4 hours ago, Letryx13 said:

I don't think it will happen, but I think he could possibly manipulate Adolin's anger at his father into controlling him. Unlikely, but possible.

If I had to guess, much of the structure will be the exact same time from different character's perspectives.  Until now, even as we've gone from one character's perspective to another's, the story has always gone in one direction. Forward. There are times when the exact time lineup is unclear, but for the most part, the story keeps moving forward.

 If it were me, writing about such a short time frame of ten days, I'd write one part of it from Kaladin and Szeth's perspective in Shinovar. Then go back to the first day and tell it from Adolin and Shalan's maybe helping more dead eye spren.  And then go back again and tell it from Dalinar and Nvani's perspective, preparing in Uritheru.  You get the idea.

Having said that, having the champion battle earlier than the grand finale with something even bigger afterward would be a good twist.  But given all the buildup to the champion contest, that's a very tall order.

Nah, the contest itself in the end can't involve enough characters to be satisfying in any way. I expect the contest to end by part 2 or 3 in a net loss and the ending to be similar to Oathbringer with all out war. The contest is too small and is only the ending to Dalinar's character arc, not for all the characters.

 

[slavagh]

23 hours ago, Returned said:

I think that a really major issue which impacts the thinking I've seen in this thread is that the contest of champions is going to be the only "climax" conflict in SA5. I do not think this will be the case. Especially since SA5 will finish the whole first section of SA we're in for an epic, action-packed climax which involves pretty much everyone, not unlike the end of Oathbringer.

I would be very surprised if a duel would be the only climax too. It probably will be something akin to Adolin's duel in WoR or the battle for Kholinar palace in Oathbringer. But I assume it would be a turning point for the whole series. That's why the involvement of the majority of the main characters either in the setup or actual fight is a fair point to make. Whatever the real climax, it will be directly set up by the aftermath of the contest.