FieldSurgeon

Stormfather theory - Stormlight 5 Prologue Spoilers

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Does anyone else feel that Stormfather's behavior, goals, and motives with Gavilar seem odd compared to the Stormfather that we've seen interact with Dalinar?  I really feel like this is an imposter... Stormfaker.  The list of suspects is pretty short; they'd have to have a lot of information, the ability to fool Gavilar and steer clear of Heralds.  I'm leaning towards one of the Heralds (probably Paliah) for this.  It's within the realm of possibility she became a Truthwatcher like Nale became a Skybreaker.  We don't have examples of what a full-fledged Truthwatcher can do with Illumination, and while I agree that "trickery" with light and sound would fall under the province of Lightweavers, visions could be a Truthwatcher's domain.  As for motive, perhaps the plan was to get substitute Heralds to free up the originals from the Oathpact.  Perhaps it was something more in line with Truthwatcher beliefs.

Also, the way Stormfather is depicted as a shimmering form.  That's new?

And lastly this:

Quote

A Herald... A Herald has died... No. I am not ready... The Oathpact... No. They mustn’t see. They mustn’t know...

We know that Heralds can feel when one of their number dies.  In his conversations with Dalinar, Stormfather has said he doesn't really keep tabs on Heralds (other than knowing about Ishar).  That Stormfaker immediately knew when a Herald (probably Chanarach) died, makes this theory more likely.  I think whoever this Stormfaker was, their initial plans went up in smoke with this.

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25 minutes ago, FieldSurgeon said:

Also, the way Stormfather is depicted as a shimmering form.  That's new?

It's a new thing in the Physical Realm, unless I'm missing other areas where this has happened, but after Dalinar and Co figure out he can take others into the visions, he takes Navani into the vision of the Heralds abandoning their blades, where the Stormfather takes the form of shimmering air.
But I'm still not convinced this isn't just someone with that knowledge and imitating it.

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I think the "A Herald..." quote indicates it was likely a Herald being the Stormfaker, and I can only think of one with the ability to pull it off.

Ishar. He has the Bondmsith abilities necessary to forge Connections. He's been around a long time so is familiar with the Stormfather, and being basically a Bondsmith himself, he was likely aware of the vision.

Or, maybe the one the Stormfather spoke to before Dalinar to show them visions was Ishar?

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The StormFaker theory makes a lot of sense imo. I cant really imagine it being Paliah though, just because she hasn't had any appearances yet.. I feel if she was actively involved in current events (like Nale and Ishar are) we would have seen her at one point. 

A point in favor of it being Ishar is his refusal to work with Dalinar: Im pretty sure he accuses him of being Odium's champion at one point. It seemed crazy to me at first, but if the "Stormfather" here was actually Ishar it makes a bit more sense: He would have known Gavilar's true intentions and his greed for power. Putting together his brother's traits with Dalinar's war crimes, he would seem like a perfect candidate for Odium's champion. (at least in Ishar's crazy mind) 

And you mention the Stormfather knowing about Ishar: what if he decided to keep tabs on (just) this particular herald simply because he impersonated him in the past? 

Edited by Torol Sadeas
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I am convinced that there is something wrong with the Stormfather in the prologue, and I am quite persuaded by the idea of a Stormfaker. 

However, there are aspects of the theory I struggle with.  For example the creature/being recognises that there is something special about Dalinar:

Quote

He has potential you do not see, that one.

He also seems to recognise that Eshonia's special nature:

Quote

One of the Listeners. Eshonai, is her name. There is something about this one…

These are both things we know that our Stormfather recognises. 

Then there is the moment that the "Stormfather" breaks with Gavilar:

Quote

The biggest fool of them all, the Stormfather said. And the thing that has miscalculated. Goodbye, Gavilar. I have seen a glimpse of what is coming. And I will not prevent it.

I found the font change really interesting. It goes from italicised to Small Caps that we are most familiar with from the books. (I don't think the formatting has transferred to this post). 

So there are aspects of this creature/being that are very like the Stormfather we know, but a lot that is very unlike him. Is there a mechanism whereby someone could "hijack" the Stormfather? I thought there might be a hint at this at the end of the chapter, where Szeth thinks Gavilar is talking to him, but Gavilar is talking to the "Stormfather". Would someone be able to fool both Gavilar and the real Stormfather simultaneously? 

If that's what is actually going on, then I think that would point to Ishar and his power set. 

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I believe that the storm faker is actually the cognitive shadow of tanavast, the seemingly much stronger definition of personality and the form made of air are very reminiscent of the shadow of leras in mistborn and explains the weird way he is behaving.

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From listening to the Prologue, I felt like it was fairly obvious that the visions were legit, but the spren interacting with Gavilar was  (off somehow) one of Odium's spren I think. An indication that this is a spren of Odium is indicated in the glimpses of the future. And then how he talks about never should have wasted time with your kind sort of makes me thing of Odium spren, who would usually work with Listeners. This couldn't be the same spren that is workign with Venli could it? Playing both sides as it were to get the Return to happen. This being Tanavast's cognitive shadow is very interesting and something I would not have thought of. 

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It might be the Stormfather, but he might change depending on the person hes "anchored" too. Him considering attachment to Gavalar might have made him more cynical and scheming. Then again just listening to G's surface thoughts would have made anyone feel the need to watch themselves around that kind of manipulator, But when he considered then bonded Dalinar he would have seen pain and guilt and regret, but not the same level of calculated malice and willing to sacrifice and destroy for power.

 

Just a thought.   

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2 hours ago, MrHobbes343 said:

It might be the Stormfather, but he might change depending on the person hes "anchored" too. Him considering attachment to Gavalar might have made him more cynical and scheming. Then again just listening to G's surface thoughts would have made anyone feel the need to watch themselves around that kind of manipulator, But when he considered then bonded Dalinar he would have seen pain and guilt and regret, but not the same level of calculated malice and willing to sacrifice and destroy for power.

 

Just a thought.   

 He wasn't anchored to gavalar. He Specifically said that he wasn't bonded to him.

Edited by bmcclure7
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I agree with the Ishar theory, for many reasons. 

@Bort and @Torol Sadeas mentioned good ones. 

I've posted a few more here , as well as a theory about Ishar's intentions. (Summary: He wants to replace himself with Gavilar, but realizes his time is running out when Chana dies, as she's likely to break quickly.)

By the way, thanks, @Reckoner89, it was you who made me realize the lettering change. Couldn't find the post when writing that OP, have just added a credit there.

 

On 5.4.2022 at 7:35 PM, Reckoner89 said:

 For example the creature/being recognises that there is something special about Dalinar
[...]
He also seems to recognise that Eshonia's special nature:

[...]

 Would someone be able to fool both Gavilar and the real Stormfather simultaneously?

I can only guess his Bondsmith abilities are how he sees a little 'into' people, and how he hides the fact of his interference from both Gavilar and the Stormfather. We just know too little yet about what a truly accomplished and very old Bondsmith can do.

 

18 hours ago, Master Silver said:

An indication that this is a spren of Odium is indicated in the glimpses of the future.

Interestingly, I think that one came from the real Stormfather, due to the lettering. I would guess he means Gavilar's death, and that's pretty imminent. He might just see Szeth on his way through the palace.

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Gavilar literally says tell Thaidakar he is too late. And then the Stormfaker says like I didn't do it man. Meaning Thaidakar/Kelsier is the Stormfaker.

I am sorry.

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On 4/15/2022 at 5:43 AM, Storyspren said:

Gavilar literally says tell Thaidakar he is too late. And then the Stormfaker says like I didn't do it man. Meaning Thaidakar/Kelsier is the Stormfaker.

1) In between these two events, you omit that Szeth has already told Gavilar that he doesn't know who Thaidakar is. There's no need to say 'Wasn't me, man' because the Szeth has already done that, even if your assumption is correct.

2) Kelsier has no plausible means of learning all the things that would be necessary to fake the knowledge we see and especially not replicate the Aharietiam vision and by implication all the others. Particularly since he's not even really there and is communicating via Seon trickery.

3) The 'Stormfather' sounds like he has direct experience of what it means to be a long-lived Cognitive Shadow, either through close observation or through actually being one. This is the kind of knowledge that Kelsier wants and does not have, which is why he's so intent on chatting with Kalak.

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2 hours ago, Weltall said:

1) In between these two events, you omit that Szeth has already told Gavilar that he doesn't know who Thaidakar is. There's no need to say 'Wasn't me, man' because the Szeth has already done that, even if your assumption is correct.

2) Kelsier has no plausible means of learning all the things that would be necessary to fake the knowledge we see and especially not replicate the Aharietiam vision and by implication all the others. Particularly since he's not even really there and is communicating via Seon trickery.

3) The 'Stormfather' sounds like he has direct experience of what it means to be a long-lived Cognitive Shadow, either through close observation or through actually being one. This is the kind of knowledge that Kelsier wants and does not have, which is why he's so intent on chatting with Kalak.

The most persuasive point here is number 3. I really don't want it to be Kelsier. 
 

Going to do a complete reread of the series with Ishar/Kelsier/Nohadon in mind as Stormfaker potentials.

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For a while I was team Susfather too... believing that Ishar was the one talking with Gavilar however... after re-reading WoR for the umpteenth time, I'm not so sure about it. 

The Stormfather hates humanity for killing the Honorspren, he has lied, and withheld information time and time again, and evensent the Highstorm (during the riddens) to the Battle of Narak to destroy everyone there... the guys a little unhinged! Syl goes so far as to describe him as "broken" (chapter 86, WoR). On a more general level, the Stromfather has spent millennia circulating Roshar like record on repeat... killing, seeing men kill, and seeing men break oaths. That's enough to drive anyone mad. I don't think we can take the Stormfather to be a truthful point of view given this context. 

Is it possible that the Stromfather was lying to Gavilar with promises of becoming a Herald? Motivating him to bring Odium back in the hope it would be the end of Roshar? for Odium to kill the Stormfather ending his torture? That's my current train of thought anyway!

 

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